North vs East

[Dekes For Days]

By points, they are.

By conveniently ignoring games played, they are. In other words, they aren't.

Your problem is you laser focus on a tiny part of a post, but ignore the overall point -- which is it's laughable for someone to call teams "absolute garbage" when those teams are roughly in the same range as two teams sitting 3rd and 4th in the division.

NYR are not really all that close to Edmonton, but I addressed your overall point, and actually agreed that they weren't garbage. That doesn't change the fact that your statement ignored games played and was misleading. Your point could have been made without that.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

East and it's not even close.

Oilers wouldn't even be in a playoff spot.

 

[gump116]

I can see the rationale for voting for the North here actually. The OP said “competitive” not “better.” A game between the Senators and Canucks, for example, is probably the same level of competitiveness as a game between the Islanders and Capitals, just scaled down to a lower level of quality.

Yeah it’s unclear what the OP means by competitive. If it’s closest within the division, it’s the north. If it’s best, in terms of competitive league wide, it’s the east, easily.

I’d put the Leafs in the same tier with the top 4 east teams and then the Rangers and Flyers in the same tier as the other north playoff teams.

 

[Mats13]

No disrespect to the north division, but I believe that any of the top 6 teams in the East would be AT LEAST neck and neck with the Maple Leafs for first in the North.

I watched the Toronto/Montreal game last night and I was stunned about how many mistakes and turnovers there were in the game. The East divison is far more defensive and tight checking.

Oh so you watched one game and now know everything about the Leafs.

What a joke. Top 6. The Leafs would smoke the flyers and rangers no problem.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Oh so you watched one game and now know everything about the Leafs.

What a joke. Top 6. The Leafs would smoke the flyers and rangers no problem.

The Flyers forward group is similar to the Leafs actually. The Leafs have more upfront star power in Matthews and Marner but Couturier/Konecny is on par with Tavares/Nylander. Then the Flyers have a couple of pretty good players in Hayes, Laughton, Voracek, Giroux while the Leafs have some good to okay players in Hyman, galchenyuk, mikheyev, wayne simmonds, etc...

Rangers top 6 is definitely on par with the Leafs. Zibanejad and Panarin cancel out (and you could argue are better than) Marner and Matthews. As well, the Rangers have some very good players after that in Buchnevich, Kreider, Ryan Strome and Blackwell.

It is far from a joke to state that the Flyers and Rangers arguably have better teams on paper than the Leafs.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Oh so you watched one game and now know everything about the Leafs.

What a joke. Top 6. The Leafs would smoke the flyers and rangers no problem.

Nobody in our own division has smoked us. There really is no point in addressing your fantasies.

 

[Kahvi]

North, of course. Not a single North team has lost a game against East team so far this season.

 

[rangersfansince08]

By conveniently ignoring games played, they are. In other words, they aren't.

NYR are not really all that close to Edmonton, but I addressed your overall point, and actually agreed that they weren't garbage. That doesn't change the fact that your statement ignored games played and was misleading. Your point could have been made without that.

He already addressed your point. 3 points with 3 games in hands. montreal only passes the Rangers with 2 wins. Which is higher than their winning percentage in their last 10 games and the season. They average 1.14 P/G so really you are arguing about half a point. But I guess that half a point(really 0 point-1 point) makes Montreal elite and the Rangers garbage.

 

[ER89]

The Flyers forward group is similar to the Leafs actually. The Leafs have more upfront star power in Matthews and Marner but Couturier/Konecny is on par with Tavares/Nylander. Then the Flyers have a couple of pretty good players in Hayes, Laughton, Voracek, Giroux while the Leafs have some good to okay players in Hyman, galchenyuk, mikheyev, wayne simmonds, etc...

Rangers top 6 is definitely on par with the Leafs. Zibanejad and Panarin cancel out (and you could argue are better than) Marner and Matthews. As well, the Rangers have some very good players after that in Buchnevich, Kreider, Ryan Strome and Blackwell.

It is far from a joke to state that the Flyers and Rangers arguably have better teams on paper than the Leafs.

On paper they absolutely don't have better teams. For you to watch a game and then come up with that conclusion is baffling. The leafs offense blows philly out of the water when healthy and nyr for that matter.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He already addressed your point. 3 points with 3 games in hands. montreal only passes the Rangers with 2 wins. Which is higher than their winning percentage in their last 10 games and the season. They average 1.14 P/G so really you are arguing about half a point. But I guess that half a point(really 0 point-1 point) makes Montreal elite and the Rangers garbage.

He didn't address the point. Montreal had a better point percentage than New York. Thus, New York was below them. Not that difficult. Does that mean Montreal is elite? No I did not say anything close to that. Does that mean the Rangers are garbage? No, I did not say anything close to that. I merely corrected a misleading statement, that that individual used to suggest something that he has no evidence of. A statement that was also highly hypocritical, as that individual has recently argued about the importance of considering games played when it suits his narrative.

 

[Mats13]

The Flyers forward group is similar to the Leafs actually. The Leafs have more upfront star power in Matthews and Marner but Couturier/Konecny is on par with Tavares/Nylander. Then the Flyers have a couple of pretty good players in Hayes, Laughton, Voracek, Giroux while the Leafs have some good to okay players in Hyman, galchenyuk, mikheyev, wayne simmonds, etc...

Rangers top 6 is definitely on par with the Leafs. Zibanejad and Panarin cancel out (and you could argue are better than) Marner and Matthews. As well, the Rangers have some very good players after that in Buchnevich, Kreider, Ryan Strome and Blackwell.

It is far from a joke to state that the Flyers and Rangers arguably have better teams on paper than the Leafs.

Man this is just delusional. You are what your record says you are. The east isn’t some dominant force. The Devils and Sabres suck, they’re no better than Ottawa. The flyers are basically the flames of that division.

The Flyers offence is as good as the Leafs? Are you high? Oh I see you took Matthews and Marner out of your equation and then decided they were equal okay so take out two top 5 offensive players and then the flyers are on the Leafs. Very equal. Also I see you conveniently left out defence.

The rangers? For real they cancel out Matthews and Marner? The Leafs duo has 107 points and the rangers duo has 80. Zibanejad isn’t even point per game and you think he cancels out the best goal scorer in hockey?

It is one hundred percent a joke to say the Flyers and Rangers are even close to on par with the Leafs. You trying to rationalize not having a good team is actually sad. You’re not up against the 80s oilers. You’re division isn’t difficult.

The Leafs play in a division with Tampa every year where only 4 team make the playoffs. And guess what? We still manage to make the playoffs. Wonder how that’s possible.

Absolute joke of a post.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Man this is just delusional. You are what your record says you are. The east isn’t some dominant force. The Devils and Sabres suck, they’re no better than Ottawa. The flyers are basically the flames of that division.

The Flyers offence is as good as the Leafs? Are you high? Oh I see you took Matthews and Marner out of your equation and then decided they were equal okay so take out two top 5 offensive players and then the flyers are on the Leafs. Very equal. Also I see you conveniently left out defence.

The rangers? For real they cancel out Matthews and Marner? The Leafs duo has 107 points and the rangers duo has 80. Zibanejad isn’t even point per game and you think he cancels out the best goal scorer in hockey?

It is one hundred percent a joke to say the Flyers and Rangers are even close to on par with the Leafs. You trying to rationalize not having a good team is actually sad. You’re not up against the 80s oilers. You’re division isn’t difficult.

The Leafs play in a division with Tampa every year where only 4 team make the playoffs. And guess what? We still manage to make the playoffs. Wonder how that’s possible.

Absolute joke of a post.

The bolded is the underlying assumption in your analysis which I disagree with. Teams in the East have a road trip that consists of Philadelphia (the number one seed last year in the East), New York Islanders (the Conference finalists last year), Pittsburgh, Washington and Boston (three teams that all made the Stanley Cup Finals in recent seasons).

Also the Metro division was also the hardest division in hockey and I don't think many people disputed that.

The Maple Leafs, definitely the best team in the Canadian division, measure themselves against the Winnipeg Jets and the Edmonton Oilers. It's just not the same level of relentless competition.

As for my analysis of the Flyers vs Leafs and Rangers vs Leafs forward groups, I would like input from other posters. I stand by my analysis. I believe that anybody who doesn't think that Panarin and Zibanejad are at least close to Marner and Matthews doesn't watch very many New York Rangers games.

 

[Mats13]

The bolded is the underlying assumption in your analysis which I disagree with. Teams in the East have a road trip that consists of Philadelphia (the number one seed last year in the East), New York Islanders (the Conference finalists last year), Pittsburgh, Washington and Boston (three teams that all made the Stanley Cup Finals in recent seasons).

Also the Metro division was also the hardest division in hockey and I don't think many people disputed that.

The Maple Leafs, definitely the best team in the Canadian division, measure themselves against the Winnipeg Jets and the Edmonton Oilers. It's just not the same level of relentless competition.

As for my analysis of the Flyers vs Leafs and Rangers vs Leafs forward groups, I would like input from other posters. I stand by my analysis. I believe that anybody who doesn't think that Panarin and Zibanejad are at least close to Marner and Matthews doesn't watch very many New York Rangers games.

You’re free to disagree on the strength of the divisions. At the end of the day, it means nothing. All we can do is judge based on the information we have. The Flyers aren’t a good team. I know they finished first last year. But their defence is not good and Hart is playing well enough to cover it this year. The Bruins were very good. They no longer are. I suggest you take a look at their 5v5 production. Pittsburg is a very strong team and so is Washington. It’s a normal division. No more or less difficult than any other. We can argue circumstances all day. But at the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

As for forward comparison, I get you don’t watch the North, but you’re just flat out wrong. It isn’t subjective. The Rangers duo is not close to the Leafs duo. One of the rangers duo isn’t even point per game. And funnily enough he pads his stats against the weak flyers defence. This is not subjective. Matthews and Marner are better.

 

[filinski77]

The bolded is the underlying assumption in your analysis which I disagree with. Teams in the East have a road trip that consists of Philadelphia (the number one seed last year in the East), New York Islanders (the Conference finalists last year), Pittsburgh, Washington and Boston (three teams that all made the Stanley Cup Finals in recent seasons).

Also the Metro division was also the hardest division in hockey and I don't think many people disputed that.

The Maple Leafs, definitely the best team in the Canadian division, measure themselves against the Winnipeg Jets and the Edmonton Oilers. It's just not the same level of relentless competition.

As for my analysis of the Flyers vs Leafs and Rangers vs Leafs forward groups, I would like input from other posters. I stand by my analysis. I believe that anybody who doesn't think that Panarin and Zibanejad are at least close to Marner and Matthews doesn't watch very many New York Rangers games.

Regarding your last bit, I can see the argument for Panarin = Matthews, I would put Matthews above simply for him being the best goalscorer in the league.

But Marner >> Zibanejad. Most people recognized that Zibanejad had a career year last year. Marner has been playing at a 90-95 point caliber for 3 seasons now, whereas Zibanejad has paces of 74-108-65. Maybe it was the COVID, or maybe it’s him just settling back to his career pace and norm. Either way, I would Marner is a much better bet to stay/be elite.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Anyone taking the east is delusional. The bottom teams are so bad.

The Sabres or NJ would struggle against Ottawa if they had to play them.

Even if thats true, and I really doubt that there's a big difference between Ottawa, Buffalo, and NJ, the East still has 4 of the best 5 teams, and likely 5 of the best 6 teams. Those teams couldn't be so bad that they make up for the fact that 1-6 the East is better in probably every slot.

 

[North Cole]

I mean, the East is better, but based on the question the North is more "competitive". Similar to the Pacific last year. You can't just ignore half a division, also there are less teams in the North, so the comparison is not exactly even.

Just looking at the bottom two vs the playoff teams:

North: (W/L/OTL)
OTT vs (P% = 18/70 = 0.257)
TOR - 3-4-1
MTL - 5-3-0
EDM - 0-9-0
JETS - 0-5-1

VAN vs (P% = 22/54 = 0.407)
TOR - 3-3-0
MTL - 3-5-1
EDM - 2-3-0
JETS - 2-4-1

East:
NJD vs: (P% = 19/50 = 0.380)
WSH - 0-6-2
BOS - 4-0-2
NYI - 1-4-1
PIT - 2-3-0

BUF vs: (P% = 8/46 = 0.174)
WSH - 2-5-1
BOS - 0-2-1
NYI - 0-6-0
PIT - 1-5-0

Vancouver is 5 back of CGY, with 6 games in hand - if CGY were to drop to 2nd last, they have a 0.452 p% vs the top 4 teams. Even with Ottawas historic 0-9 vs the Oilers, they have a better p% vs the top four teams than Buffalo does. I'd go with the North being more competitive.

 

[keglu]

Man this is just delusional. You are what your record says you are. The east isn’t some dominant force. The Devils and Sabres suck, they’re no better than Ottawa. The flyers are basically the flames of that division.

The Flyers offence is as good as the Leafs? Are you high? Oh I see you took Matthews and Marner out of your equation and then decided they were equal okay so take out two top 5 offensive players and then the flyers are on the Leafs. Very equal. Also I see you conveniently left out defence.

The rangers? For real they cancel out Matthews and Marner? The Leafs duo has 107 points and the rangers duo has 80. Zibanejad isn’t even point per game and you think he cancels out the best goal scorer in hockey?

It is one hundred percent a joke to say the Flyers and Rangers are even close to on par with the Leafs. You trying to rationalize not having a good team is actually sad. You’re not up against the 80s oilers. You’re division isn’t difficult.

The Leafs play in a division with Tampa every year where only 4 team make the playoffs. And guess what? We still manage to make the playoffs. Wonder how that’s possible.

Absolute joke of a post.

Leafs made playoffs last year with .579 this year Rangers are at .578 and not even close to being in playoffs spot. Not sure how having Tampa in divison is releveant when discussing making playoffs.
And for player comparision, Marner+ Matthews are 2.52 PPG this year, Zib+Panarin at 2,40.
Last year NYR duo was better with 2,7 vs 2,28. It's not some outragoues comparison. Panarin have strong case for 2/3 best player in the league in last 2 years.
That being said i dont agree Rangers are at Leafs level this year , however they would be in playoffs spot in any other divison. By next year they will be stong Cup contender.

 

[RedWingzz]

East

Can't wait for those first round matchups. As a "neutral fan" I'd love to see Washington play Pittsburgh right away.

 

[GreeningOil]

This thread has been the only time in my whole life that I hope the Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup.

These teams played each other as recently as last year and Toronto made the playoffs playing mostly against... yeah you guessed it! EAST teams. They don’t suck, they play in a different division.

6 teams have pace for 60+ points? That means there is 2 teams that suck. It’s almost like one of them had an 18 game losing streak.

Everyone needs to get of a high horse and realize the top teams in each division can beat each other on any given night