North vs East

[Fataldogg]

Pretty simple, what is the more competitive division.

East has Capitals, Islanders, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins, Penguins, Devils and Sabres.

North has the Leafs, Oilers, Jets, Flames, Canucks, Senators, Canadiens.

Pick one.

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[ole ole]

Pretty simple, what is the more competitive division.

East has Capitals, Islanders, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins, Penguins, Devils and Sabres.

North has the Leafs, Oilers, Jets, Flames, Canucks, Senators, Canadiens.

Pick one.

You forget even.

 

[Fataldogg]

You forget even.

I know what I did. If it's even, don't vote. It was intentional. Choose one side, or another. Don't stand on the fence. If you lean slightly toward one side, vote. If you think it is genuinely dead even, just don't vote in the poll.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I would take any playoff team in the East over any team in the North. This one is very easy.

 

[Zeeker]

I can see the rationale for voting for the North here actually. The OP said “competitive” not “better.” A game between the Senators and Canucks, for example, is probably the same level of competitiveness as a game between the Islanders and Capitals, just scaled down to a lower level of quality.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know what I did. If it's even, don't vote. It was intentional. Choose one side, or another. Don't stand on the fence. If you lean slightly toward one side, vote. If you think it is genuinely dead even, just don't vote in the poll.

Like you I HATE the even option, it's a cop out.

 

[Madap]

I think overall they’re pretty close. I’d give a slight edge to the East for both competitiveness and being the better division.

However I think the Leafs are the best team overall and Winnipeg is a defenceman away from being the second best.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I like how in previous seasons, the excuse for the Leafs not making it out of the first round is because they had to play Boston twice. It's not fair to call them chokers because of how good their opponents were. Now that Boston's in the East, they're no longer this massive threat?

The bottom end teams may be a saw-off, but the top 4 in the East is better than the top 4 in the North. Toronto's the only team in that Northern top 4 that would likely still be in the running for top spot if they were in the East.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I like how in previous seasons, the excuse for the Leafs not making it out of the first round is because they had to play Boston twice. It's not fair to call them chokers because of how good their opponents were. Now that Boston's in the East, they're no longer this massive threat?

1. This may come as a surprise to you, but Boston in 2018 and 2019 is not the same team as Boston in 2021. Has nothing to do with what division they're in.
2. Boston is still generally considered pretty good. Probably better than they deserve.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

1. This may come as a surprise to you, but Boston in 2018 and 2019 is not the same team as Boston in 2021. Has nothing to do with what division they're in.

Cool.

2. Boston is still generally considered pretty good.

Of course they are. Which is the point. They're 4th in the East. A division that apparently isn't stronger than the North, which have teams like Winnipeg, Edmonton and Montreal rounding out their top 4.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Voted North because the OP seemed kinda salty in the Ovi thread

 

[Dekes For Days]

Of course they are. Which is the point. They're 4th in the East. A division that apparently isn't stronger than the North, which have teams like Winnipeg, Edmonton and Montreal rounding out their top 4.

Those teams are also pretty good. See, you skipped over #1 pretty fast, but that was the more important point. Teams change over the years; especially between years with a 10 month break. Teams can even change quite a bit from year to year. By your logic, are Calgary and Winnipeg also the 2nd overall in the league teams they were in the same years the Leafs faced Boston? Boy, the North must be stacked then.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Those teams are also pretty good. See, you skipped over #1 pretty fast, but that was the more important point. Teams change over the years; especially between years with a 10 month break. Teams can even change quite a bit from year to year. By your logic, are Calgary and Winnipeg also the 2nd overall in the league teams they were in the same years the Leafs faced Boston? Boy, the North must be stacked then.

I see you skipped over the bulk of my point, too.

Which is, Boston's still a good team, yet they sit 4th in a division that's apparently not as strong as a division that has Winnipeg, Edmonton and Montreal battling for #2 in it.

So let me ask you flat out: Which teams (other than Toronto) in the North would you say would be currently top 4 in the East?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I like how in previous seasons, the excuse for the Leafs not making it out of the first round is because they had to play Boston twice. It's not fair to call them chokers because of how good their opponents were. Now that Boston's in the East, they're no longer this massive threat?

The bottom end teams may be a saw-off, but the top 4 in the East is better than the top 4 in the North. Toronto's the only team in that Northern top 4 that would likely still be in the running for top spot if they were in the East.

I would hope the Boston excuse went out the door when Columbus ended Toronto's season last year.

Toronto is probably only team that could make the playoffs in the east, and even then I'm not sure which of Washington, Pittsburgh, NYI, or Boston they'd displace.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I see you skipped over the bulk of my point, too. Which is, Boston's still a good team, yet they sit 4th in a division that's apparently not as strong as a division that has Winnipeg, Edmonton and Montreal battling for #2 in it.

I didn't skip over your point. You made a big show asking how could it possibly be that Boston was one of the best teams in 2018 and 2019, but aren't now. While, quite easily, especially with an aging core and roster losses. In the years Boston faced the Leafs, both Winnipeg and Calgary placed 2nd overall, yet I'm sure you don't consider them among the best teams this year. Things change.

Exactly what evidence do you have that this year, Boston is a better team than Toronto, Winnipeg, or Edmonton?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I didn't skip over your point. You made a big show asking how could it possibly be that Boston was one of the best teams in 2018 and 2019, but aren't now. While, quite easily, especially with an aging core and roster losses. In the years Boston faced the Leafs, both Winnipeg and Calgary placed 2nd overall, yet I'm sure you don't consider them among the best teams this year. Things change.

Boston's core remains the same, and that core is still actually producing. Boston also has a longer track record of staying at the top. Those two teams you mentioned either have different cores (ie. Winnipeg's defense is almost completely different) and Calgary's core has imploded, and have been more often a middling team than a top team.

But sure, same thing.

Exactly what evidence do you have that this year, Boston is a better team than Toronto, Winnipeg, or Edmonton?

I asked a pretty easy question to answer and yet you didn't answer it. I wonder why that is? Could it be because you don't want to say on record you don't think Montreal, Edmonton or Winnipeg would crack the East's top 4?

Also not sure why you added Toronto. I literally said "other than Toronto, which top 4 team in the North". You know, when someone says "other than" that generally means they don't include that team?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Pretty simple, what is the more competitive division.

East has Capitals, Islanders, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins, Penguins, Devils and Sabres.

North has the Leafs, Oilers, Jets, Flames, Canucks, Senators, Canadiens.

Pick one.

I know this is my hot take, but as a habs fan, no team in the east scares me in a playoff series. I didn't say Montreal wins, but all of them are beatable.
Caps imo, are the team to beat with the isles a close second.
In terms of competitive, I'd say it's the north too. Devils and sabres are weak, with NYR and philly wildly inconsistent.
In the North the sens have given everyone headaches except the oilers

 

[LeafGrief]

Boston's core remains the same, and that core is still actually producing. Boston also has a longer track record of staying at the top. Those two teams you mentioned either have different cores (ie. Winnipeg's defense is almost completely different) and Calgary's core has imploded, and have been more often a middling team than a top team.

But sure, same thing.



I asked a pretty easy question to answer and yet you didn't answer it. I wonder why that is? Could it be because you don't want to say on record you don't think Montreal, Edmonton or Winnipeg would crack the East's top 4?

Also not sure why you added Toronto. I literally said "other than Toronto, which top 4 team in the North". You know, when someone says "other than" that generally means they don't include that team?

Boston lost two top 4 defensemen in the offseason, Carlo has missed 15 games so far, Grzelcyk 14, and their 4th string goalie is getting games. Bruins are having a hard time and the Jets/Oilers would absolutely give them a run for their money this year. Bruins will assuredly bounce back next year, nobody should bet against their core, but it's been a rough go for them. Habs would be sniffing around the fourth spot in the Central or West, but not the East.

Maybe the Bruins win out over the Oilers/Jets this year, but it's not a scorching hot take to say the teams with the 10th and 11th best records so far would be competitive with the 13th.

And I did vote for the East in the poll.

 

[Fataldogg]

I see you skipped over the bulk of my point, too.

Which is, Boston's still a good team, yet they sit 4th in a division that's apparently not as strong as a division that has Winnipeg, Edmonton and Montreal battling for #2 in it.

So let me ask you flat out: Which teams (other than Toronto) in the North would you say would be currently top 4 in the East?

I know that you are not asking me this question, but I wanted to respond.

I believe Toronto would be contending in the East. They would be in the mix with the Capitals, Islanders and Penguins to lead the division. I think Toronto is the only team in the North who would comfortably take home a playoff position.

1 - Capitals
2 - Islanders
3 - Leafs
4 - Penguins

The entire top four would be within a couple of points of each other. Then you would have teams like Boston, which would be a shoe in for a playoff position in the North, and inconsistent teams like the Rangers and Flyers also fighting on the bubble but falling short.

You add Toronto into the East and it becomes an ultra competitive division with a lot of top tier teams (almost to the point where it is unfair).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Boston's core remains the same, and that core is still actually producing. Boston also has a longer track record of staying at the top. Those two teams you mentioned either have different cores (ie. Winnipeg's defense is almost completely different) and Calgary's core has imploded, and have been more often a middling team than a top team.

Much of Boston's core is also well into their 30s (in contrast to much of the North division, who have cores entering their primes), and they are predictably having worse seasons than they did 2-3 years ago. Krejci has a whole 2 goals on the season. They lost Krug and Chara (top-4 defensemen the last time they faced the Leafs), and their defense went through an overhaul this past offseason. They've switched out some of their bottom-six, and both their blazing hot PP and goaltending has cooled off. By all reports, their management had been preparing for a drop-off.

Literally all you're basing this off is "well, they used to be good", but that's meaningless. Things change, and drop-offs can be sudden. San Jose literally went from 6th in the league one year, to 29th in the league the next year, despite "much of their core remaining the same". Chicago went from 3rd in the league to 25th with much of the core they had a dynasty with only a few years prior. Boston's current decline doesn't change the fact that Boston was an elite team when the Leafs faced them in the playoffs.

The reason you failed to provide any evidence of Boston being better than Toronto, Winnipeg, or Edmonton this year is because none exists; it's merely what you wish were true.

I asked a pretty easy question to answer and yet you didn't answer it. I wonder why that is? Could it be because you don't want to say on record you don't think Montreal, Edmonton or Winnipeg would crack the East's top 4?

I didn't answer it because it's irrelevant, and nobody has any way to know, but there's no reason to think Winnipeg and Edmonton couldn't challenge for places in the top-4 of the East, in addition to Toronto.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Close but I went East because Washington, Boston and Pitts have shown in the past that they can contend in the playoffs even though their cores are now a bit older. And I think the NYI are the best overall team in either Division.
But honestly I don’t see a top 5 overall contender from either Division this year.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

No disrespect to the north division, but I believe that any of the top 6 teams in the East would be AT LEAST neck and neck with the Maple Leafs for first in the North.

I watched the Toronto/Montreal game last night and I was stunned about how many mistakes and turnovers there were in the game. The East divison is far more defensive and tight checking.

 

[BlueBaron]

I would take any playoff team in the East over any team in the North. This one is very easy.

And the value of your opinion is reflected by these statements.

 

[BlueBaron]

Pretty easy to pick the East.

 

[AvroArrow]

I like how in previous seasons, the excuse for the Leafs not making it out of the first round is because they had to play Boston twice. It's not fair to call them chokers because of how good their opponents were. Now that Boston's in the East, they're no longer this massive threat?

The bottom end teams may be a saw-off, but the top 4 in the East is better than the top 4 in the North. Toronto's the only team in that Northern top 4 that would likely still be in the running for top spot if they were in the East.

No Chara, no Krug, Krejci is another year older. Boston was a top 5 team then, they're currently sitting at 13th overall in the standings. Still a good team but they are clearly worse than they were 2 years ago. They did recently add Hall so lets see how that works out.

Winnipeg, Edmonton, Montreal would all be slapping the bottom 4 teams in the East. Toronto/Winnipeg/Edmonton would all be in contention for a top 4 playoff spot in the East without a doubt, Montreal would have a very good chance as well. There's 4 good teams and 4 absolute garbage teams. Replace any of the top 4 with any other half decent team and they'd be sitting in a playoff spot in the East, that's how bad the rest of the division is.