North division and its D:s

[Eat The Rich]

Its actually not an excuse. This is the first year in ages 4 teams from Canada are playoff-teams...

What are you talking about?

The Leafs playing in the North division is 100% an excuse as to why they're first in the league. Do you not read threads at all?

 

[IceNeophyte]

Matthew Tkachuk
Zack Kassian
Jake Muzzin
Brendan Gallagher
Brady Tkachuk

would be my top five North Division D's.

Very telling that 4 of the 5 are Fs

 

[ccman68]

this was in the athletic a few days ago. yes the defense is worse but idk if it’s that big of a deal

 

[IceNeophyte]

Has this season not shown how absurdly top heavy the Atlantic was? I'd certainly rather play in the old Pacific than the North. Well, from a competitive standpoint anyway. I would probably do everything in my power to not have to watch 6 Coyotes games a year.

You're probably forgetting what a meat grinder a Cali road trip was before age caught up with those teams.

 

[voxel]

Oilers would probably fare better in the old Pacific division. The North has two other strong teams (Leafs and Jets) and only two awful teams (Canucks and Sens). The Pacific had three CA garbage teams and the Yotes. The negative is the Pacific teams often had good goaltending (Gibson, Quick, Kuemper/Raanta, Markstrom, etc)

 

[voxel]

You're probably forgetting what a meat grinder a Cali road trip was before age caught up with those teams.

In the past yes.. those road trips sucked but not in the past two years or so.

 

[RogerR]

What I don't understand is how the Leafs with their 6th place GA/G can have such a bad defense in the best offensive division in hockey.

No one can answer that question.

 

[AvroArrow]

"Nobody talks about the D" That's literally all anyone talked about here for the past month. Every thread, "North is trash, no D, doesn't count, inflated numbers"

 

[IceNeophyte]

What I don't understand is how the Leafs with their 6th place GA/G can have such a bad defense in the best offensive division in hockey.

Logical fallacy. A bad defensive division can have a good defensive team.

 

[Llamamoto]

View attachment 402033

this was in the athletic a few days ago. yes the defense is worse but idk if it’s that big of a deal

It isn't a big deal.

After 22 games this year McDavid was at 40 points. He was at exactly the same number in the same number of games in 2019-20.

 

[Eat The Rich]

Logical fallacy. A bad defensive division can have a good defensive team.

But all I hear about is how the Leafs are a bad defensive team. Which is it?

 

[Hockey Stick]

Its actually not an excuse. This is the first year in ages 4 teams from Canada are playoff-teams...

There were 5 Canadian teams in 2017 lol

 

[Joe n]

Yeah - their D and goaltending are on the whole pretty bad.

Pretty sure this is well-trod territory. I don't think Auston Matthews is a GPG player, for instance.

Is what it is. Enjoy that Art Ross trophy North of the border.

2 of the top 4 vote getters for the vezina is abysmal.

 

[IceNeophyte]

But all I hear about is how the Leafs are a bad defensive team. Which is it?

What I'm hearing is that the Leafs' record is inflated by playing in a bad defensive division. that isn't the same as saying they are a bad defensive team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You're probably forgetting what a meat grinder a Cali road trip was before age caught up with those teams.

What does that have to do with playing there last year or going forward? Montreal and Winnipeg are considerably better than any of the non-Canadian teams outside of Vegas.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It isn't a big deal.

After 22 games this year McDavid was at 40 points. He was at exactly the same number in the same number of games in 2019-20.

I don't think anybody is worried about elite players, they're worried about the supporting cast...

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah - their D and goaltending are on the whole pretty bad.

Pretty sure this is well-trod territory. I don't think Auston Matthews is a GPG player, for instance.

Is what it is. Enjoy that Art Ross trophy North of the border.

Sure, he is not. Nobody is. But he is having a phenomenal season because he is a pretty good player. The division has nothing to do with it. A guy at 22 is having a career year, stop the presses! It must be the division he is in! Not that he is a great player entering his prime years.

 

[Joe n]

No one can answer that question.

I asked this on another thread. Still waiting for a response

 

[Suntouchable13]

I don't think anybody is worried about elite players, they're worried about the supporting cast...

What about them? From the Leafs, for example, nobody from the supporting cast is having an abnormal year stats wise. Ok, maybe Joe Thornton but a pylon would even pick up a few points playing next to Matthews and Marner

 

[Joe n]

What I'm hearing is that the Leafs' record is inflated by playing in a bad defensive division. that isn't the same as saying they are a bad defensive team.

they are also on a division with half the top scorers in the league. They all just take it easy when they play toronto.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

What about them? From the Leafs, for example, nobody from the supporting cast is having an abnormal year stats wise. Ok, maybe Joe Thornton but a pylon would even pick up a few points playing next to Matthews and Marner

I think posters are concerned whether they are capable of elevating their game for the playoffs. I think that's fair given the state of the North division. Depth wins playoff series' and cups, not strictly elite players.

 

[IceNeophyte]

What does that have to do with playing there last year or going forward? Montreal and Winnipeg are considerably better than any of the non-Canadian teams outside of Vegas.

You're cherry picking by only considering a season where those teams were anomalously bad. In fact, Kings were on a four game tear when everything was shut down. Kings and Sharks are both performing better than they were last year, and it isn't because of lower competition. The Ducks are basement, but can be a giant killer in any given game, similar to Ottawa. All three are still physical and difficult to play.

You also fail to consider that West has added MIN, COL and STL to the "Pacific" mix. Granted, StL is down with injuries right now, but they aren't a team to be counted out.

I'll grant that the lower half of West is what it is, and I'll counter that you can't name four Canadian teams that can win a series against Vegas, Colorado, healthy Blues, and Minnesota. Maybe Leafs, but that's arguable. Yotes are struggling but it isn't defensively, same with the Ducks.

Unfortunate, without interdivisional play, it will come down to playoffs. Leafs will probably make the semis for the first time in forever, and then will probably be summarily dismissed by their semi opponent. Then will come the excuses and the extolling of the Mighty Leafs who made it to the "conference finals". It will be little more an achievement than the Blues making it to the SCF in their first three years.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Well there are seven teams in the division, and the Leafs don't have to play the best offensive team (because it's them). Outside of them, which of these teams are actually elite offensively? Edmonton is insanely top heavy. Outside of them, you have who - Winnipeg as a team with a deep forward group?

I don't think the division is particularly good offensively outside of the Leafs. Credit to the Leafs - they are a legitimately good team no matter what division they would be in.

Let me put it this way - would Leafs fans vote to go back to the Atlantic division next season, or would they prefer to stay with the ScotiaBank North Division?

You are severely underestimating the Jets and just how good there offence is. It is right up there with Toronto.

Offence is equal

Jets goalie is much better

Torontos D is better.

Add that up and you have two pretty good teams and either one could win a series against the other and it wouldn't be surprising at all. So why talk like your team is so much better then them?

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think posters are concerned whether they are capable of elevating their game for the playoffs. I think that's fair given the state of the North division. Depth wins playoff series' and cups, not strictly elite players.

Yea my question with them has always been playoffs. No question they are a good regular season team but offensive stacked teams always do way better in the regular season than they do in the playoffs as it's just downright harder to score. Teams in the playoffs key in on your top guys and while they need to be able to push through that because you need your best players to be your best players but that's not always going to happen in the playoffs.

Teams in the playoffs have good d and can shut down top players. It's about how their depth does at that point. Which I don't know how they will be once they have to play a team with great d. Also teams in the playoffs have more depth too. How do they match up with those elite teams depth.

There are no elite teams in that division. Will be an interesting challenge for them and I know their fans think they could win it all based on the success they are having but it's only going to get harder the deeper they get in the playoffs.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You're cherry picking by only considering a season where those teams were anomalously bad. In fact, Kings were on a four game tear when everything was shut down. Kings and Sharks are both performing better than they were last year, and it isn't because of lower competition. The Ducks are basement, but can be a giant killer in any given game, similar to Ottawa. All three are still physical and difficult to play.

You also fail to consider that West has added MIN, COL and STL to the "Pacific" mix. Granted, StL is down with injuries right now, but they aren't a team to be counted out.

I'll grant that the lower half of West is what it is, and I'll counter that you can't name four Canadian teams that can win a series against Vegas, Colorado, healthy Blues, and Minnesota. Maybe Leafs, but that's arguable. Yotes are struggling but it isn't defensively, same with the Ducks.

Unfortunate, without interdivisional play, it will come down to playoffs. Leafs will probably make the semis for the first time in forever, and then will probably be summarily dismissed by their semi opponent. Then will come the excuses and the extolling of the Mighty Leafs who made it to the "conference finals". It will be little more an achievement than the Blues making it to the SCF in their first three years.

The context was whether I'd rather play in the North or in the old Atlantic. You can make this point with literally any other division besides the North and the choice will never be to play in the Atlantic because of how top heavy it is. Choosing the North over the Atlantic to show how abnormally weak the North is isn't a great argument when the North is pretty objectively better than what the Pacific was in 19/20.

I don't care what the Pacific is this year with different teams or what it was in 2012 before the Cali teams broke down, that's outside the scope of the original comment.