North division and its D:s

[RogerR]

I think posters are concerned whether they are capable of elevating their game for the playoffs. I think that's fair given the state of the North division. Depth wins playoff series' and cups, not strictly elite players.

They seem to have great depth.

 

[IceNeophyte]

The context was whether I'd rather play in the North or in the old Atlantic. You can make this point with literally any other division besides the North and the choice will never be to play in the Atlantic because of how top heavy it is. Choosing the North over the Atlantic to show how abnormally weak the North is isn't a great argument when the North is pretty objectively better than what the Pacific was in 19/20.

I don't care what the Pacific is this year with different teams or what it was in 2012 before the Cali teams broke down, that's outside the scope of the original comment.

See, I don't agree that the North is objectively better than what the Pacific was in 19-20. Oilers, Flames, Canucks were 2, 3, 4. Flames and Canucks are a shadow of what they were last year, and the Oilers are the same at very best. I am saying that the Pacific Flames and Canucks were better than the North Flames and Canucks are . Would you argue against that? No matter which way you slice it, transitive logic won't solve for which division is more competitive, and because of that, all comparisons, including mine, are moot.

 

[Dust]

The North has 3 teams in the top 10 in GA/GP - 1. Ottawa, 3. Vancouver, 10. Edmonton

Considering there's 4 divisions, each division should average 2-3 teams in that list. The D hasn't been lights out, but people are overstating how bad it's been outside of Ottawa and Vancouver. The North division also has the reigning Vezina winner, and the guy that finished 4th in Vezina voting a year ago.

 

[Martin Skoula]

See, I don't agree that the North is objectively better than what the Pacific was in 19-20. Oilers, Flames, Canucks were 2, 3, 4. Flames and Canucks are a shadow of what they were last year, and the Oilers are the same at very best. I am saying that the Pacific Flames and Canucks were better than the North Flames and Canucks are . Would you argue against that? No matter which way you slice it, transitive logic won't solve for which division is more competitive, and because of that, all comparisons, including mine, are moot.

I'm not trying to split hairs over which division is more or less competitive, I don't really care. The narrative people are trying to push is that the North is uniquely bad rather than just being arguably the worst of 4 comparable divisions. There's no basis for that when last year's Pacific had a worse top end and bottom end regardless of how much you think the Canucks and Flames fell off. Hell, they barely even lost any players between the two of them they just traded teams. Besides even if they got worse, shouldn't that get balanced out by playing in an "easier" division?

Either lightning struck twice in back to back years having historically/uniquely bad divisions, or the North is just a regular underwhelming division like the Pacific was.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Well I don't think the North is the worst division ever, so I'm probably arguing the wrong points.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I know people want to shit on the North division, but could it simply be this?

The best offensive players on both D and F are in the division. Each of the teams playing there are battling against other offensive powers in the league. It's the team's styles.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I know people want to shit on the North division, but could it simply be this?

The best offensive players on both D and F are in the division. Each of the teams playing there are battling against other offensive powers in the league. It's the team's styles.

On the subject of styles, it would be curious whether age plays a factor? Generally speaking as offensive players age, they remain good (but not as good) offensively and tend to adapt their games more defensively to compensate. Sometimes the team itself will also compensate to a degree to insulate.

Bringing it up because North vs East is actually an interesting comparison. In the North, the vast majority of the guns are in their early 20s. In the East, they are mostly in their 30s:

Crosby 33
Malkin 34
Ovechkin 35
Giroux 33
Backstrom 33
JVR 31
Marchand 32
Bergeron 35
Carlson 31
Pastrnak 24

Now some of those guys are naturally strong defensively but wondering how much age factors into those teams having to play more defensively?

 

[majormajor]

It actually has very good offense, but the defence is abysmal compared to other divisions. The North had 9 players in Top27 for scoring. It seems like Canadien teams have put all their cash on offense and try to outscore their opponents. No wonder the north will see more goals than any other division.

I think they'd have an outsized share of the top scorers regardless of division. They did last year too.

Yeah - their D and goaltending are on the whole pretty bad.

Pretty sure this is well-trod territory. I don't think Auston Matthews is a GPG player, for instance.

Is what it is. Enjoy that Art Ross trophy North of the border.

Lol. They were getting the Art Ross anyways, and they already had it last year. McDavid is leading by a mile and has the same scoring pace as he did last year. Matthews won't stay near goal per game but he is undeniably one of the top 2 or 3 goal scoring talents in the game.

I'm wondering if you just don't follow them closely, this is the most talented bunch of scorers in the league.

 

[Bank Shot]

The North would be scoring 10 goals per game against the Wings.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The North would be scoring 10 goals per game against the Wings.

The Wings are a bizarre team to single out.

 

[Three On Zero]

The North is the worst defensively

 

[zar]

I feel like the North division has the weakest defences by far. Ppl talk about how good Toronto, Winnipeg etc, are offensively, but nobody talks about how bad defences there is. 2020 Norris voting had 2 players from the north in best 25. Hughes and Weber at #15. So, maybe the bad defenses are the reason some teams up north have players that will have career-years? When you can feast on the same teams and bad defense a lot, its kinda easy to put up points...
Same with the Selke. North has 3 players in Top20 and highest is Matthews at #16.

I will refer you to Page 2 of threads on the mains where you will find the following thread:

North \ Canadian Division - Defense

Big surprise... what a strange correlation... during this season of inter-divisional only play, the division with the most offense also has the worst defensive stats. It's proably a bit of both, but let's not pretend that most of the guys at the top of the scoring race would not have been there anyways... look at the past couple of years and also the trends of those same players.

 

[ScaryCarey31]

Having a wealth of elite talent in one division=worst defenses apparently.

 

[Canadian Finn]

here's a request.

if this north division suckyness was so obvious, can anyone point to a post (from anyone) prior to the start of the season discussing how bad the north was 'going' to be?

we have a ton of super duper armchair superstars on this board...surely there has to be some posts or threads prior to the start of the season discussing how obviously bad the north division was going to be...right?

link it up.

 

[zar]

Its actually not an excuse. This is the first year in ages 4 teams from Canada are playoff-teams...

Like last year? Canadiens, Flames, Jets, Canucks. Before you go there... had it been on points percentage based when the season ended, it would have been Leafs, Oilers, Canucks, Flames.

Know your stats before you post crap... there are 10 websites that you could have looked that up prior to posting hyperbolic lies.

If you want to not consider last season at all for some made up reason and of course it would suit your argument... then it would have been 3 seasons ago, 2016/17 when 5 out of 7 (71% of the) Canadian teams made the playoffs.

Since 7/31 (22.5%) of teams are Canadian - an equal distribution would be an alternating pattern of 3 and 4 Canadian teams in the playoffs.

 

[zar]

Having a wealth of elite talent in one division=worst defenses apparently.

Well that's an anomaly?

 

[ScaryCarey31]

Well that's an anomaly?

I guess so lol. I'd rather face any one of the easts aging stars than have to go up against matthews/ marner or McDavid/Draisaitl 10 times a season.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

REALLY?

The division is being destroyed. I've never seen anything like it. I've counted 4 people claiming it's the worst division in NHL history.

REALLY ?

Was there a claim in the post you quoted that the North Division was good?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

How is it a myth? Go check best 50 D:s from north and compare to other divisions. It is actually pretty clear

50 Ds ?

7 1/7 per team ?

 

[RogerR]

REALLY ?

Was there a claim in the post you quoted that the North Division was good?

I'm more stunned there was a claim people don't talk about it being bad