No Tkachuk, Zhamnov for Heritage Classic?

[Guardian17]

But they have not. The truth is out there. All you have to do is consult the media guides for the teams.

Look at the "Franchise Record Book" section for the Avalanche, for instance. It starts with the 1979-80 season. How can that be? The Colorado Rockies were the team in Denver at that time and those numbers are not the Colorado Rockies. The explanation is : those are the numbers from the Quebec Nordiques.

The Minnesota North Stars records merged the Cleveland Barons and California Seals records.

Both the Barons and the Seals played in the NHL at the same time!

How can that be?

If you go to Colorado and look at Joe Sakic's retired number banner you'll see this.

1995?

Joe Sakic's career started in 1988 with Quebec.

Somone made a mistake on the banner.

I view a hockey franchise is like a house I purchased and the family I purchased it from, in this case the Atlanta Thrashers, left their pictures on the wall.

Now you are telling me I have to pretend the pictures on the wall left behind by the previous owners means something to me.

They don't.

Frankly, it's insulting to Atlanta Thrashers fans for me to pretend otherwise.

I'll take those pictures down and put them in a box in a basement.

If the previous owners, hockey fans in Atlanta, want them they are welcome to them.

This Heritage Classic Weekend is me putting my pictures up on the walls.

My pictures are the "Hot Line", Dale Hawerchuck, Teemu Selane and Patrick Laine.

 

[Guardian17]

But they have not. The truth is out there. All you have to do is consult the media guides for the teams.

Look at the "Franchise Record Book" section for the Avalanche, for instance. It starts with the 1979-80 season. How can that be? The Colorado Rockies were the team in Denver at that time and those numbers are not the Colorado Rockies. The explanation is : those are the numbers from the Quebec Nordiques.

Actually, they did.

Read the link.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/05/20/charlotte-hornets-back.ap/

 

[Analyst365]

No Dazzling Dallas Drake or Nifty Nelly Emerson either

 

[sabresfan129103]

No way, I just saw a pic of Tkachuk for the 1st time in years. Put the donuts down Keith. Holy hell.

 

[Tekneek]

Actually, they did.

Read the link.

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/05/20/charlotte-hornets-back.ap/

I was referring to the NHL. You said the NHL could do it just as easily, to which I said "But they have not."

 

[Tekneek]

The Minnesota North Stars records merged the Cleveland Barons and California Seals records.

Both the Barons and the Seals played in the NHL at the same time!

How can that be?

That is because of a merger. It was a strange thing to have done, but it happened anyway.

If you go to Colorado and look at Joe Sakic's retired number banner you'll see this.

1995?

Joe Sakic's career started in 1988 with Quebec.

Somone made a mistake on the banner.

They didn't make a mistake if that is what they intended to do. You're the one pointing at that, not me. Look at the media guide, like I suggested, and tell me what it says for franchise history. It sounds like you might be surprised.

I view a hockey franchise is like a house I purchased and the family I purchased it from, in this case the Atlanta Thrashers, left their pictures on the wall.

Now you are telling me I have to pretend the pictures on the wall left behind by the previous owners means something to me.

Not at all. It isn't like that at all. It has nothing to do with pictures and whether those pictures mean anything to you. Staios and Buchberger played for that franchise and nobody else on the ice yesterday did. Nobody has to like that fact, but it remains a fact nonetheless.

This Heritage Classic Weekend is me putting my pictures up on the walls.

My pictures are the "Hot Line", Dale Hawerchuck, Teemu Selane and Patrick Laine.

No problem with the show. It was what the people wanted. A throwback to the hockey legacy of the city. That's cool. They were a team of players that once played for a team named Winnipeg Jets. None of them were alumni of the current Winnipeg Jets, mind you, but it is what it is.

 

[tony d]

I always find it odd that the teams like winnipeg and Minnesota who returned to cities that once had NHL teams don't have the actual players who played for the old teams on them. Oh well better Hawerchuk and Selanne than Heatley and Kovalchuk.

 

[Last Laf]

Man time fly by too fast, I still remember as a kid I was trading hockey cards with a guy that only collect the "Olympic line" guys Selanne, Tkachuk and Zhamnov.

And bang all of sudden we are talking about Heritage Classic game for them. You know the saying, "Im feeling old"

 

[Guardian17]

Not at all. It isn't like that at all. It has nothing to do with pictures and whether those pictures mean anything to you. Staios and Buchberger played for that franchise and nobody else on the ice yesterday did. Nobody has to like that fact, but it remains a fact nonetheless.



.

Actually, as the NBA demonstrated with the Charlotte Hornets and the NFL with the Cleveland Browns, it can be whatever the league wants it to be.

Staios and Buchburger played for an NHL franchise based in Atlanta.

Joe Sakic's banner says 1995 because that's when his history in Denver began.

The Dallas Stars media guide has records from two different franchises who were playing in the NHL at the same time so it's not a perfect document that cannot be changed to suit the needs of a fanbase.

The franchise in Winnipeg represents the history in Winnipeg.

My opinion is no more nor less valid than yours.

 

[Tekneek]

Actually, as the NBA demonstrated with the Charlotte Hornets and the NFL with the Cleveland Browns, it can be whatever the league wants it to be.

And...?

Staios and Buchburger played for an NHL franchise based in Atlanta.

That moved to Winnipeg when it was sold. These are indeed facts.

Joe Sakic's banner says 1995 because that's when his history in Denver began.

Ok. That is also a fact that is not in dispute.

The Dallas Stars media guide has records from two different franchises who were playing in the NHL at the same time so it's not a perfect document that cannot be changed to suit the needs of a fanbase.

Are you talking about that merger again? That merger is not in dispute.

The franchise in Winnipeg represents the history in Winnipeg.

The NHL franchise currently playing in Winnipeg entered the league in 1999. The franchises in Arizona, Carolina, and Colorado, entered the league in 1979. The franchise in Dallas entered the league in 1967 and the franchise in New Jersey entered the league in 1974. These are facts, not opinions.

My opinion is no more nor less valid than yours.

Which opinions of mine are you talking about? Let's talk about the facts.

 

[Guardian17]

The NHL franchise currently playing in Winnipeg entered the league in 1999. The franchises in Arizona, Carolina, and Colorado, entered the league in 1979. The franchise in Dallas entered the league in 1967 and the franchise in New Jersey entered the league in 1974. These are facts, not opinions.

Nope.

The Winnipeg Jets history began in 1972 through 1996.

It was dormant for 15 years and reappeared in 2011.

Again, your asking me to pretend the history of the previous owners are mine.

They are not, that belongs to Atlanta and it's insulting to Thrashers fans to pretend they are.

The NBA got it right with the Charlotte Hornets.

The NFL got it right with the Cleveland Browns.

The Colorado Avalanche celebrate Joe Sakic's in career in Colorado.

Using your "facts" the banner should have 1988 so the "facts" don't matter

The Minnesota Wild got it right dressing their Alumni in Minnesota North Stars jerseys earlier this year.

You stick to media guides as if they are perfect documents when they are clearly flawed and teams are ignoring them.

 

[Givememoneyback]

Actually, as the NBA demonstrated with the Charlotte Hornets and the NFL with the Cleveland Browns, it can be whatever the league wants it to be.

Staios and Buchburger played for an NHL franchise based in Atlanta.

Joe Sakic's banner says 1995 because that's when his history in Denver began.

The Dallas Stars media guide has records from two different franchises who were playing in the NHL at the same time so it's not a perfect document that cannot be changed to suit the needs of a fanbase.

The franchise in Winnipeg represents the history in Winnipeg.

My opinion is no more nor less valid than yours.

I don't have a problem with what Winnipeg's doing, but the Hornets and Browns aren't the best examples. Unlike the Jets 2.0, neither franchise came into existence by relocating a team already in the league. Without that franchise based in Atlanta, players like Byfuglien, Little, Enstrom, Stuart, Kane, Bogosian, and, by extension, Myers would, most likely, never ended up in Winnipeg.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

just to be confusing about it...

 

[ediger]

Not everybody knows this, I can assure you. The problem was that they called it an alumni game/team when nobody on the team was alumni of that franchise. Would've been more appropriate to just call it a Legends game and leave it at that. Words have meanings.

Who gives a flying ****? I always picture anyone complaining about this stuff pushing their glasses up their nose with one finger while saying "Nyyyaaaah actually...".

 

[Flyerfan52]

About Keith Tkachuk a guy not very affectionately known as "Captain Weasel" wouldn't have been a great pick for a team when so many the fans liked were available. Those of us around in the days we lost the original franchise remember him as being the 1 that never came to the "Save the Jets" rallies while kids were donating the contents of their piggy banks. Some bought into his later attempt to kiss & make up but that never got the stink off for the majority.

As to the history this was about all previous incarnations of the Jets. WHA & NHL 1.0. If you look @ the roster all players actually played for 1 or the other. It was the history of the Jets rather than the replacement we are now building. Hence no ex-Thrashers. We celebrated Winnipeg hockey.

 

[Tekneek]

The Winnipeg Jets history began in 1972 through 1996.

WHA history is not counted in the NHL.

It was dormant for 15 years and reappeared in 2011.

The two teams share a name and city, but they don't have a shared history.

Again, your asking me to pretend the history of the previous owners are mine.

I think you mean "you are", but I digress. I am not asking you to do anything, other than embrace the truth. Fact that is devoid of any opinion or spin. There is no emotion in the actual truth.

They are not, that belongs to Atlanta and it's insulting to Thrashers fans to pretend they are.

I doubt the truth is insulting to very many in this case, but I'll take your word for it. Hockey fans in Atlanta would be insulted to know that the hockey team moved to Winnipeg and took the history with it? The premise is flawed from the very start. The idea that the team ceased to exist when it moved would be far more insulting. Aside from that, how do you explain all those contracts that moved with the team and all the draft picks that had belonged to Atlanta just a few months prior? The contortions required to believe your version of this are too great.

The NBA got it right with the Charlotte Hornets.

They made that arrangement for an expansion team, so the scenario is not as similar as you portray it. Even if they 'got it right', the NHL did not make such an arrangement (so this is merely a strawman).

The NFL got it right with the Cleveland Browns.

That was a settlement arrived at through the process of litigation. None of which occurred with the Jets.

The Colorado Avalanche celebrate Joe Sakic's in career in Colorado.

I think that is pretty cool.

Using your "facts" the banner should have 1988 so the "facts" don't matter

When did I say that? You are the one making that claim.

The Minnesota Wild got it right dressing their Alumni in Minnesota North Stars jerseys earlier this year.

They did put former Wild players on the ice with them, though. This does help establish some degree of precedent for an Alumni team containing non-Alumni, although they didn't attempt having zero alumni on the team.

You stick to media guides as if they are perfect documents when they are clearly flawed and teams are ignoring them.

I don't "stick to them" for anything other than evidence of the case I am presenting. The available evidence supports my position far more than it does yours. I'm not telling you how to feel about any of it. You don't have to love the truth, because it stands on its own without any emotional requirement.

 

[Tekneek]

As to the history this was about all previous incarnations of the Jets. WHA & NHL 1.0. If you look @ the roster all players actually played for 1 or the other. It was the history of the Jets rather than the replacement we are now building. Hence no ex-Thrashers. We celebrated Winnipeg hockey.

I'm not arguing that they had to put Thrashers on the team. I stated fact that there were zero alumni of the current team on their "alumni team" and the only alumni were actually dressed for the other team (Staios and Buchberger, the first two captains of the current NHL franchise playing in Winnipeg). Frankly, none of that should even be controversial as it is irrefutable truth.

 

[Guardian17]

I'm not arguing that they had to put Thrashers on the team. I stated fact that there were zero alumni of the current team on their "alumni team" and the only alumni were actually dressed for the other team (Staios and Buchberger, the first two captains of the current NHL franchise playing in Winnipeg). Frankly, none of that should even be controversial as it is irrefutable truth.

Sorry, it's not.

Ilya Kovalchuk never played for the Winnipeg Jets, just like Bobby Hull, Thomas Steen and Dale Hawerchuk never played for the Phoenix Coyotes.

Like I said before...

I view a hockey franchise is like a house I purchased and the family I purchased it from, in this case the Atlanta Thrashers, left their pictures on the wall.

Now you are telling me I have to pretend the pictures on the wall left behind by the previous owners means something to me.

They don't.

Frankly, it's insulting to Atlanta Thrashers fans for me to pretend otherwise.

I'll take those pictures down and put them in a box in a basement.

If the previous owners, hockey fans in Atlanta, want them they are welcome to them.

This Heritage Classic Weekend is me putting my pictures up on the walls.

My pictures are the "Hot Line", Dale Hawerchuck, Teemu Selane and Patrick Laine.

After this weekend, Bobby Hull's banner now graces the MTS Centre as it should because it's Winnipeg Jets history.

In the coming years names like Hawerchuck, Selanne and Steen will join it with the NHL's blessing.

You will never see Kovalchuk, Staios or Buchberger there because they never played for the Winnipeg Jets.

 

[Tekneek]

Sorry, it's not.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2913335/winnipeg-jets-to-announce-next-captain-wednesday-afternoon/

Captain Chronicle

Kelly Buchberger 1999-2000
Steve Staios 2000-2001
Ray Ferraro 2001-2002
Shawn McEachern 2002-2004
Scott Mellanby 2005-2007
Bobby Holik 2007-2008
Ilya Kovalchuk 2009-2010
Andrew Ladd 2010-2016
Blake Wheeler 2016-present

You keep telling me how you feel about it, or how you "view" it. I'm sure that is how you want it to be. What I am telling you is that facts do not alter simply because you really wish they would.

 

[kmart]

http://globalnews.ca/news/2913335/winnipeg-jets-to-announce-next-captain-wednesday-afternoon/

Captain Chronicle

Kelly Buchberger 1999-2000
Steve Staios 2000-2001
Ray Ferraro 2001-2002
Shawn McEachern 2002-2004
Scott Mellanby 2005-2007
Bobby Holik 2007-2008
Ilya Kovalchuk 2009-2010
Andrew Ladd 2010-2016
Blake Wheeler 2016-present

You keep telling me how you feel about it, or how you "view" it. I'm sure that is how you want it to be. What I am telling you is that facts do not alter simply because you really wish they would.

this is actually surprising. i went to the winnipeg jets homepage after this post and i found nothing that is connected to the old jets. their rosters start at 1999-2000, trashers. i researched a bit and its true.

just for fun i try to modify the anolgy about the fam. pictures.
if you want to celebrate the old jets aka selene and co. you have to make sure to put the right pictures down first, that would be the yotes.

the jets from the past and the from now have the same name but are not the same "family". i suppose the thrashers changed their name for marketing reasons after relocating... and it seems to work, people mistake them for the old jets, nostalgia dollars.

 

[xBSGeorge]

It

If the NHL didn't want the Jets to acknowledge their past they would have told them they couldn't use the Jets name.

If the NHL didn't want the Jets to use their old branding they would have never sold them the old logos when the team was purchased and moved.

If the NHL didn't want the Jets to acknowledge that the WHA years they would have stopped all the video tributes during the last 5+ seasons and at the Heritage Classic game.

If the NHL didn't want to call it a Heritage game they could have changed the name, it was the NHL after all that "hosted" this event.

If the NHL didn't agree with the Winnipeg Jets that they should have an alumni game with old Winnipeg Jet players they would have never allowed it. The NHL allowed this to happen, they put the event on after all with the help of True North. These are all facts. The NHL wanted this to happen and so it did.

If the NHL thought that the only thing that mattered in the NHL was stats in a guide book then the NHL would have never allowed Minnesota to invite North Stars players to their game.

The NHL has now established a new precedent on how the these games can be done. They made the decision to allow everything to happen that lead to this moment.

 

[STC]

The Charlotte Hornets of the NBA are the perfect example of how "team history" should be handled.

Charlotte Hornets 1.0 move to New Orleans and become the New Orleans Hornets.

City of Charlotte gets an expansion team called the Charlotte Bobcats.

The New Orleans Hornets rebrand as the New Orleans Pelicans.

Charlotte Bobcats rebrand as the Charlotte Hornets 2.0.

All records of the Charlotte Hornets 1.0 transferred by the NBA from the New Orleans Pelicans to the Charlotte Hornets 2.0.


"Whitfield also announced that in collaboration with the NBA and the Pelicans, all of the statistical information, records and history of the Charlotte NBA basketball will be restored to the franchise.

That means the Hornets will now own and have access to all of the historical elements from the recent Bobcats' era (2004-14) as well as the original Hornets teams that played in Charlotte - including stats from stars such as Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning and Muggsy Bogues.

All of the Hornets records from their years in New Orleans will revert to the Pelicans' history, Whitfield said."


http://www.nba.com/2014/news/05/20/charlotte-hornets-back.ap/

If the NBA can do it the NHL can do it as well.

That's perfect. Well done NBA. NHL should follow suit.

And big props to the Jets for listening to their fans and naming the team the Jets as opposed to doing something stupid like Minnesota did with the Wild.

I guarantee Minnesota regrets not naming their team the North Stars from the start and going with those great NS jerseys they used to have. Now they are stuck with a horrible name and even worse colors and sweaters.

I have a friend who was big stars fan and now cheers for Dallas. I asked him if the Wild had been named the North Stars instead and treated as if it was a return of the North Stars if he would've gone back to supporting Minnesota and he said yes.

 

[CraigBillington]

The Minnesota North Stars records merged the Cleveland Barons and California Seals records.

Both the Barons and the Seals played in the NHL at the same time!

How can that be?

If you go to Colorado and look at Joe Sakic's retired number banner you'll see this.

1995?

Joe Sakic's career started in 1988 with Quebec.

Somone made a mistake on the banner.

I view a hockey franchise is like a house I purchased and the family I purchased it from, in this case the Atlanta Thrashers, left their pictures on the wall.

Now you are telling me I have to pretend the pictures on the wall left behind by the previous owners means something to me.

They don't.

Frankly, it's insulting to Atlanta Thrashers fans for me to pretend otherwise.

I'll take those pictures down and put them in a box in a basement.

If the previous owners, hockey fans in Atlanta, want them they are welcome to them.

This Heritage Classic Weekend is me putting my pictures up on the walls.

My pictures are the "Hot Line", Dale Hawerchuck, Teemu Selane and Patrick Laine.

The Nords/Avs relocation is a weird one for me to fully get in terms of record keeping and the like. Technically they're the same franchise, as their records show as far back as 1979 (despite still being older than that) and they have kept their scoring records and such. But it seems like they don't want any connection to the Nords to be actually visible - including their retired numbers (8 is worn right now by Joe Colborne, 16 by Zadorov, 26 obviously by Stastny in the past, and so on)

But read upon the history and mergers/diversions of the Seals/Barons/North Stars and Sharks for those who haven't. It's pretty interesting, and odd to see the North Stars taking part in an expansion draft 23 years after taking part in an expansion draft.

 

[Riggins]

So this guy is going to argue that if a team moves to Quebec and becomes the Nordiques, that team is not allowed to have an alumni game featuring past Nordiques players because it is not the same franchise? Only the Avalanche can have an alumni game featuring the Stastny bros, etc. even though they never played in Colorado. That's ridiculous.

 

[Guardian17]

http://globalnews.ca/news/2913335/winnipeg-jets-to-announce-next-captain-wednesday-afternoon/

Captain Chronicle

Kelly Buchberger 1999-2000
Steve Staios 2000-2001
Ray Ferraro 2001-2002
Shawn McEachern 2002-2004
Scott Mellanby 2005-2007
Bobby Holik 2007-2008
Ilya Kovalchuk 2009-2010
Andrew Ladd 2010-2016
Blake Wheeler 2016-present

You keep telling me how you feel about it, or how you "view" it. I'm sure that is how you want it to be. What I am telling you is that facts do not alter simply because you really wish they would.

And I'm telling you the same thing!

Aside from Ladd and Wheeler, none of those players in your list played for the Winnipeg Jets!


You sell me your house and leave a picture on the wall of your wife.

Because the picture of your wife is on the wall, your saying I now have to celebrate your wedding anniversary with her!

That's the scenario if Kovalchuk, Staios, Holik et al played in last Saturday's alumni game!

In any case, the NHL has given us their blessing and our history will continue to be celebrated and honored by us, Winnipeg Jets fans as noted in the following links.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-12...-continuing-winnipeg-s-return-to-nhl-1.590620

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2016/10/...eason-to-be-proud-of-heritage-classic-weekend

Quote from Mark Chipman,

“When Gary (Bettman) told me that we were going to be able to host a Heritage Classic, it seemed to me it was worth waiting for that, to use the Heritage as a platform to really do the look back and draw attention back to all of that great history and, with our current organization, we can go forward together.”