Post-Game Talk: No OT, No SO, No Win. Habs lose 2-1

Theodore450

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He's shooting half his carreer shooting%, that's why it's a slump.
He’s shooting half his career shooting % because teams don’t give him the inside lane anymore.
There’s a reason MsL put him LW.

Advanced stats show you what’s happening but don’t explain the context or what will happen.
Also his shooting sample size is so small, idk how you can draw any conclusions from that.
 

windycity

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Sep 30, 2003
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All you missed was a terrible power play............and Gally with useless penalties, constant whining at the refs, and he cost Armia a goal with his goalie interference......it's sad to see Gally go down this road.
Ugh, thanks for the synopsis and glad I missed it! I like Gally but oooof
 
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DAChampion

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The reason why PPG is a useful guideline is because it implies a player who is PPG won't go on long slumps, that they'll readily and consistently be on the scoresheet. I think highly of Caufield and consider him our most valuable player but 7g in 28gp is not sufficient nor is his 2g4a in his last 15gp. It's because of these slumps that the Habs are not further along the rebuild. Immature players, inexperienced players, and under-productive players make-up the roster of not-competitive teams. He's paid a lot to produce, it's not like he brings much else to the table.

20pts in 28gp is a sub c.58pt pace... before the season we had fans speculating if he would hit 50 goals not 58pts. It's certainly a slump and he was firing shots to break it against Buffalo so let's hope this slump ends soon and we see what is meant to be the real Caufield soon.

I still think he has a lot of talent and will not disappoint but we all expected a lot more than this. Even the inexplicable Hughes-can-do-no-wrong contingent has to admit Caufield has not lived up to the contract.


Correct. He is definitely under-productive from a sh% standpoint. We've seen snipers in the NHL go through these every year, all the time.

You can't really build a team off the back of a sniper. PMD and C, yes. Goalie, yes. Play-driving W like Ovechkin or Kane... sure. Sniper W, not really.

I personally never took seriously the comments that it would be disappointing if Cauldield scored 39 goals this year. Fact is that scoring is very hard in this league, and that Caulfield has good gifts but not gifts on the level of Ovechkin or Matthews.

It's also not because of Caulfield's slump that the Habs are not winning, it's because of an overall lack of talent. Dach and Newhook are injured and so outside of the Suzuki line this may be the worst forward group in the league, perhaps even including the Suzuki line.

Reiterating that I don't buy that Caulfield is in the same level as Matthews and Ovechkin, or even DeBrincat. I think he's a good complementary second-line winger, once the team is well built he'll be dependable to score 25-30 goals/year.

I think the team needs to add two high level forwards to be competitive. Presumably, that means one from the draft, and one from UFA or trade, e.g. Demidov and Nylander.

He’s shooting half his career shooting % because teams don’t give him the inside lane anymore.
There’s a reason MsL put him LW.

Advanced stats show you what’s happening but don’t explain the context or what will happen.
Also his shooting sample size is so small, idk how you can draw any conclusions from that.

Perhaps Cauldield should go back to RW.
 
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Theodore450

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I personally never took seriously the comments that it would be disappointing if Cauldield scored 39 goals this year. Fact is that scoring is very hard in this league, and that Caulfield has good gifts but not gifts on the level of Ovechkin or Matthews.

It's also not because of Caulfield's slump that the Habs are not winning, it's because of an overall lack of talent. Dach and Newhook are injured and so outside of the Suzuki line this may be the worst forward group in the league, perhaps even including the Suzuki line.

Reiterating that I don't buy that Caulfield is in the same level as Matthews and Ovechkin, or even DeBrincat. I think he's a good complementary second-line winger, once the team is well built he'll be dependable to score 25-30 goals/year.

I think the team needs to add two high level forwards to be competitive. Presumably, that means one from the draft, and one from UFA or trade, e.g. Demidov and Nylander.



Perhaps Cauldield should go back to RW.
The only way he goes back to RW is when our coach decides (or gets fired) that playing with no structure is stupid.

doubt we see that this year
 

bcv

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Sep 18, 2010
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He’s shooting half his career shooting % because teams don’t give him the inside lane anymore.
There’s a reason MsL put him LW.

Advanced stats show you what’s happening but don’t explain the context or what will happen.
Also his shooting sample size is so small, idk how you can draw any conclusions from that.
"Shooting %" "advanced stats"

ok
 
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Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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"Shooting %" "advanced stats"

ok
You really took what I said and made a great counterpoint.
So much charity to the argument. Such a star you are. I can tell you have that 200 IQ that I’m just in awe of
 

bcv

My french sucks.
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You really took what I said and made a great counterpoint.
So much charity to the argument. Such a star you are. I can tell you have that 200 IQ that I’m just in awe of
thank you, means a lot.
 

SlafySZN

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May 21, 2022
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You really took what I said and made a great counterpoint.
So much charity to the argument. Such a star you are. I can tell you have that 200 IQ that I’m just in awe of
I mean, you supposedly watched the games and think CC doesn’t have the same chances lol. He had many great high danger chances since the start of the season, basically every game.

Do you ever wonder what the point of your hot takes are? Will you stop posting when he scores again?
He only waited 28 games of a young career to try the ‘’gotcha’’ lol
 

Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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Do you ever wonder what the point of your hot takes are? Will you stop posting when he scores again?
I want him to succeed. But it’s this fan base intention to shield him from criticism while he’s out partying instead of scoring, that leads me to give my opinion. Just like you all are doing

How does that follow?
If we had a proper defensive structure, it would lead to a faster transition. Players always knowing where their teammates are would lead to quicker passes out the zone and into the offensive zone.
Caufield playing the right side (his actual position) would benefit .

He would receive the puck on the forehand and should have a step to attack. Go watch him in the Vegas series. Completely different player

I mean, you supposedly watched the games and think CC doesn’t have the same chances lol. He had many great high danger chances since the start of the season, basically every game.


He only waited 28 games of a young career to try the ‘’gotcha’’ lol
Dude has been ass all season. This isn’t a gotcha.
 

Leon Lucius Black

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Nov 5, 2007
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Watched parts of the game and almost puked watching Dvorak pretending to play hockey.

I always forget he is even playing, then halfway through the game he will kill the play in the offensive zone and that is the only reason I remember he is on the team.
 

LaP

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Jun 27, 2012
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I always forget he is even playing, then halfway through the game he will kill the play in the offensive zone and that is the only reason I remember he is on the team.

Yesterday he was trying to carry the puck in the offensive zone and Ylonen was skating like twice his speed. Instead of giving the puck to his winger he tried to carry the puck into the zone at the same speed my dead grand ma was skating 70 years ago. Obviously Ylonen crossed the line before him and then the play by play guy proceeded to criticize Ylonen for it (obviously it's always the kid's fault). I was like i've see pee wee players skate faster and harder than that.
 

admiralcadillac

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Oct 22, 2017
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I want him to succeed. But it’s this fan base intention to shield him from criticism while he’s out partying instead of scoring, that leads me to give my opinion. Just like you all are doing


If we had a proper defensive structure, it would lead to a faster transition. Players always knowing where their teammates are would lead to quicker passes out the zone and into the offensive zone.
Caufield playing the right side (his actual position) would benefit .

He would receive the puck on the forehand and should have a step to attack. Go watch him in the Vegas series. Completely different player


Dude has been ass all season. This isn’t a gotcha.
He’s out partying instead of playing hockey? You seen him with your own eyes?
 

LaP

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Jun 27, 2012
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Quebec City, Canada
I remember when some of you believed Caufield was a 1st line 40 goal scorer who was better than Suzuki.
The jig is up. Keep him to the perimeter and he’s essentially useless. Gonna have a worse career than skinner
The guys is 22. Teams and goalies adjusted to him now it's his turn to adjust to the defensives and goalies closely checking him.
 

Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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He’s out partying instead of playing hockey? You seen him with your own eyes?
Yes, consistently.

The guys is 22. Teams and goalies adjusted to him now it's his turn to adjust to the defensives and goalies closely checking him.
Exactly what I think. I just don’t think he has it in him ( which is fine)
He would play much better under a better coach IMO
 

WeThreeKings

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Sep 19, 2006
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Why? Why is it almost certainly a slump.

I don’t see it. Same player doing the same thing. Except now we have no system to make him play better and teams know all he does is shoot from the dumbest angles.

Can’t play with any pace if we can’t even establish transition or proper defensive structure. It’s mostly on the coach. Seriously this is the most unlikable group, starting from the coach. No identify, no accountability, simply not built to WIN

The weird thing about a rebuild is that - they are not built to win.

Do you really think a team with a second line of Monahan Evans Anderson is the intentional design to compete?
 
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Theodore450

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The weird thing about a rebuild is that - they are not built to win.

Do you really think a team with a second line of Monahan Evans Anderson is the intentional design to compete?
The point of a rebuild IS TO build to win.

Get ready to be the buffalo sabres.
 

WeThreeKings

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Sep 19, 2006
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The point of a rebuild IS TO build to win.

Get ready to be the buffalo sabres.

We are basically 2 years into the rebuild now (Bergevin was fired in November 2 years ago).. and we are ahead of the Sabres in the standings already. With only one player picked in the last two years playing and a whole lot of our best prospects yet to debut or establish themselves.. and many picks and future prospects yet to be used.

I don't know what your expectations are but based on waht you've been saying in this thread, you've grossly mischaracterized what a rebuild is, what it looks like, and what the timeline is realistically for a rebuild.

We aren't even half-way there.. and when I say half-way there, we aren't even half-way to the SHORTEST time a rebuild takes.

2 years into a rebuild and rebuilds take 5-8 seasons just to start making the play-offs consistently, let alone contend.
 

Theodore450

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Sep 10, 2013
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We are basically 2 years into the rebuild now (Bergevin was fired in November 2 years ago).. and we are ahead of the Sabres in the standings already. With only one player picked in the last two years playing and a whole lot of our best prospects yet to debut or establish themselves.. and many picks and future prospects yet to be used.

I don't know what your expectations are but based on waht you've been saying in this thread, you've grossly mischaracterized what a rebuild is, what it looks like, and what the timeline is realistically for a rebuild.

We aren't even half-way there.. and when I say half-way there, we aren't even half-way to the SHORTEST time a rebuild takes.

2 years into a rebuild and rebuilds take 5-8 seasons just to start making the play-offs consistently, let alone contend.
Almost all the assets from this rebuild have a timeline that goes back longer than 2 years.
That we need to add more talent through rebuilding is not what I’m debating. This is obvious enough

My expectation is for the team to at some point establish an identity or system that will lead to sustain success. The fact that losing has become ok, not showing up to the game ready, taking stupid penalties and making stupid decision on the ice without and consequences is my issue.
The fact that 2 years in, our coach still hasn’t implemented or improved on anything is an issue.
Pp is terrible
Pk is terrible
Even strength terrible
Defending in our own zone abysmal
Transition with any hope of attacking terrible
Vets severely underperforming
Favouritism for players like Matheson
Literally pond hockey is being promoted



You can blame the quality of the roster and personnel, but when established players play like shit here, you know there’s a bigger problem.

A perfect example is dandanov who was a non factor moving to different team and playing as a regular on a cup contending team.


Worse rosters are doing more than what we are doing. It’s a stagnant roster with no vision. And our coach hasn’t made any player play better.




You say a rebuild takes 5-8 years (insane)
I say it doesn’t. Point me to a team that misssed the playoffs for 8 straight season and suddenly became good enough to make the playoffs.

The philosophy is backwards, system is everything. Adding talent is Hughe job and I’m no criticizing the waiting game on the rebuild. I agree with it.

But let’s not act like letting our coach coddle players and play system less hockey is some good thing that’s gonna eventually lead anywhere.

Adding talent like Ottawa and buffalo on a year to year is meaningless if you have no vision of how to play.
Buffalo has had to rebuild on the rebuild for a decade now. They are still nowhere near being good. Compare that to the bruins whose roster is nothing that impressive. Yet they have a vision, they have a system, they have accountability.


Finally, if rebuilding takes that long, why is our gm trading for young developed players? It’s cause he sees the value in progress. All the best rebuilds, from LA to NYR to Florida did not rebuild by accepting garbage
 

BLONG7

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Ugh, thanks for the synopsis and glad I missed it! I like Gally but oooof
I love gally too, but that said his expiration date is up.........................he is the poster boy for the refs and their hatred for sooks.........he never gets a call unless it's against us..........and he is embarassing himself and all habs fans for whining............
He has had more bad penalties this year, than ever before......stupid and selfish.
Yes he tries hard like no one else............but the results are never good anymore.
Hate to say it..........
 
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WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
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Almost all the assets from this rebuild have a timeline that goes back longer than 2 years.
That we need to add more talent through rebuilding is not what I’m debating. This is obvious enough

My expectation is for the team to at some point establish an identity or system that will lead to sustain success. The fact that losing has become ok, not showing up to the game ready, taking stupid penalties and making stupid decision on the ice without and consequences is my issue.
The fact that 2 years in, our coach still hasn’t implemented or improved on anything is an issue.
Pp is terrible
Pk is terrible
Even strength terrible
Defending in our own zone abysmal
Transition with any hope of attacking terrible
Vets severely underperforming
Favouritism for players like Matheson
Literally pond hockey is being promoted



You can blame the quality of the roster and personnel, but when established players play like shit here, you know there’s a bigger problem.

A perfect example is dandanov who was a non factor moving to different team and playing as a regular on a cup contending team.


Worse rosters are doing more than what we are doing. It’s a stagnant roster with no vision. And our coach hasn’t made any player play better.




You say a rebuild takes 5-8 years (insane)
I say it doesn’t. Point me to a team that misssed the playoffs for 8 straight season and suddenly became good enough to make the playoffs.

The philosophy is backwards, system is everything. Adding talent is Hughe job and I’m no criticizing the waiting game on the rebuild. I agree with it.

But let’s not act like letting our coach coddle players and play system less hockey is some good thing that’s gonna eventually lead anywhere.

Adding talent like Ottawa and buffalo on a year to year is meaningless if you have no vision of how to play.
Buffalo has had to rebuild on the rebuild for a decade now. They are still nowhere near being good. Compare that to the bruins whose roster is nothing that impressive. Yet they have a vision, they have a system, they have accountability.


Finally, if rebuilding takes that long, why is our gm trading for young developed players? It’s cause he sees the value in progress. All the best rebuilds, from LA to NYR to Florida did not rebuild by accepting garbage

5 years Penguins
1702309870984.png


11 years Blackhawks
1702309919636.png


Or 6 if you want to say they made it one year in 2001-2002.

1702309973729.png


7 years for Los Angeles.

1702310021184.png


7 years for St Louis.

1702310233661.png


7 years for Tampa Bay.

1702310289651.png


10 years for Colorado.

Your expectations are off. You are mad that they aren't doing things the way you want them done, which is simultaneously win games and play contender hockey, but also rebuild and add elite talent.

They added underappreciated talent who were in their early 20s.. many teams have done that while rebuilding. They of course want to accelerate getting out of a rebuild if they can.. any team would, but they are clearly developing what they have and putting an emphasis on player and skill development while introducing concepts more and more as they grow.

Boston has an archetype that's been installed since Jeff Gorton (you know the guy in charge of our rebuild) finished the Boston rebuild while he was there. They are building on near 20 years of that identity, culture, etc. It took time to build as it will here.

Things don't happen overnight.
 

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