Post-Game Talk: No Mrazek = no win (for those confused, I'm not blaming Howard)

[Hendricks433]

Not what I said at all. What I am saying is Blashill should play Howard, the team will still make the playoffs with him while he gets to buff up his stats for a trade. He deserves to be starter. He needs to be a starter somewhere.

Last year at this time Howards stats mirrored Mrazeks his first 31 games. Howard was an all-star last year until he got injured. Wings haven't given him a chance to get back to game shape. Howard has trade value when he puts up 2.08 goals-against average and .921 save percentage like he did last year to start the season.

Soon Mrazek will get a big raise and Red Wings will have 8+ million tied up just in goaltending.

He has been playing poorly, he doesn't deserve to be the starter. That's not how professional sports works. He can get occasional starts and if he does well in those then maybe he gets more starts.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Not what I said at all. What I am saying is Blashill should play Howard, the team will still make the playoffs with him while he gets to buff up his stats for a trade. He deserves to be starter. He needs to be a starter somewhere.

Last year at this time Howards stats mirrored Mrazeks his first 31 games. Howard was an all-star last year until he got injured. Wings haven't given him a chance to get back to game shape. Howard has trade value when he puts up 2.08 goals-against average and .921 save percentage like he did last year to start the season.

Soon Mrazek will get a big raise and Red Wings will have 8+ million tied up just in goaltending.

Yep 8 million tied in goalies. But you don't want to get rid of Howard. So what do we do. That 5 million could be used to getting a dman

Which would further help the good goalie we have aka mrazek

 

[Eastopia]

Vocal criticism of Nyquist does not automatically imply silent acceptance or support for Tatar. He's got to step it up too. But if I had to choose between the two this season, I go with Tatar no question.

No, but hyperbolic criticism of Nyquist is kind of odd when he produces* and no criticism of Tatar ever comes forth even though he's not. They both need to play better. They both deserve criticism. Only one of them is getting it.

*Before someone misconstrues this, I'm speaking about this game. He's obviously not producing nearly enough overall.

Nyquist is playing like a boy among men a lot of nights this season.

I don't blame you for missing it because he's so damn hard to spot out there but the same is true about Tatar.

 

[theYman]

Sheahan needs to get an opportunity at wing imo. He is flying out there but just needs a little less responsibility to go off.

Agree why can't Richards center that line? Isn't he a natural center?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Agree why can't Richards center that line? Isn't he a natural center?

Yeah but yeah wings want Sheahan to be a center. a #2 or 3

 

[Bench]

Agree why can't Richards center that line? Isn't he a natural center?

Richards took the 2nd most draws for the Hawks in the regular season and playoffs. So yeah, he can do it. He won over 48% of them, which is serviceable, but not ideal. Still, it's more than Sheahan this year, who is winning 46.5%.

In Richards' limited time taking draws this year (distant 5th) he's 52.3%.

Sheahan is having a brutal year across the board. On pace for 22 points, he's a -12, and faceoffs below 47%. He's 24-years-old now, so the idea he's going to mature into a great 2nd line center seems an idea I'm going to have to let go of. He's in a tight scoring race with Luke Glendening at the moment, if that helps shine some light on things.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

we should either play howard a bit more often to help get his rhythm and timing back a bit or we should accept the fact that he will be traded away for peanuts

either way i do not expect a good return whenever the time comes that we do move him

trade him to calgary at the TDL for hiller(ufa) and a a decent prospect and call it a day

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No, but hyperbolic criticism of Nyquist is kind of odd when he produces* and no criticism of Tatar ever comes forth even though he's not. They both need to play better. They both deserve criticism. Only one of them is getting it.

*Before someone misconstrues this, I'm speaking about this game. He's obviously not producing nearly enough overall.



I don't blame you for missing it because he's so damn hard to spot out there but the same is true about Tatar.

the main difference between tatar and nyquist that i see, is that when both guys arent producing tatar plays with more energy, skates more and can create more turnovers as a result

when nyquist isnt producing he becomes invisible

 

[Chance on Chance]

Not what I said at all. What I am saying is Blashill should play Howard, the team will still make the playoffs with him while he gets to buff up his stats for a trade. He deserves to be starter. He needs to be a starter somewhere.

Last year at this time Howards stats mirrored Mrazeks his first 31 games. Howard was an all-star last year until he got injured. Wings haven't given him a chance to get back to game shape. Howard has trade value when he puts up 2.08 goals-against average and .921 save percentage like he did last year to start the season.

Soon Mrazek will get a big raise and Red Wings will have 8+ million tied up just in goaltending.

[/QUOTE]"what have you done for me lately" sure does apply in this thread. Only on HF [/QUOTE]

So why do we need to buff up his stats when just last year he was doing good? Why does it matter what hes done lately for a trade? How many games do you want him to play? How many will he have to lose before you think maybe Mrazek should be back in

 

[PuckDynasty]

Also, I got really sick of hearing "there's nothing Howard could do there" on the telecast tonight. Howard over-commits a lot so he puts himself in a position where there's nothing he can do. I think that's where the confusion comes in.

Agree totally with this. I notice I don't hear that when Mrazek is playing because no one feels the need to defend Mrazek. He's good, and goals get scored on him, like every goalie. But every time Jimmy plays and lets in a goal, we hear the chorus of "that wasn't his fault", he couldn't do anything about that one. But he puts himself out of the play often times before the shot is even made. I'm not defending the putrid defense in any way, but this is a Ducks team that has trouble scoring goals and that isn't the Cory Perry a few years ago.

This is another one of those situations that I'd have to agree with the Holland haters. Howard was given way too much for too long. Even when he was playing his best I felt that.

 

[14ari13]

Think maybe they do it to **** with him a la Goldberg from the Mighty Ducks?

But on a serious note, it's been that way the past few seasons where Detroit will play better in front of any goalie whose name isn't Howard. Why?

Goalies? It was Gustavsson and now Mrazek.

Howard is right where he belongs statistically the last 3 years. I don't see where everyone is surprised. When he first came into the league he was still riding the tail end of the good team era with Lids Rafalski and Stuart Kronwall in our top 4. Only reason he had all those wins was he was riding the good defense and when we had an offense. He rode the pine as they say.
See look.

He's right at his avg for the last 2 seasons

I mean look at 2010-11 season. It proves it. No goalie today posts a .908 and 2.79 GAA on the season and gets 37 wins unless he's riding the pine. We had a ridiculous offense still then.

Actually his best season he was carrying the wings and was our mvp. Babcock even played him on back to back games.
I think many posters remember or should remember that Howard saved wings and Babcock back in the days the same way as Mrazek is doing it now. Howard has hit his slump, but he should bounce back.

 

[Shoalzie]

Howard looked slow and sluggish...I can always blame the rust but I don't think his mind is all the way in it. Mrazek has taken his job and I don't know if he's going to be the right option as a backup going forward.

 

[Z40]

I don't think Babock is a coach you want if you're trying to win Stanley Cups. I just think he falls short time and time again. Be it with the Ducks or Red Wings... and now Leafs. I stand behind what I said and that is he's overrated.

I think TML and their fans will regret having him around for 8 years.

And yet, he has won the Stanley Cup with the Wings and made it to the finals with the Ducks.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

And yet, he has won the Stanley Cup with the Wings and made it to the finals with the Ducks.

and dont forgot olympic gold medals b2b including the most pressure filled sporting event any one country has ever faced outside perhaps team england should they ever play a world cup final game in england

babs is the coach you want hands down

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Howard looked slow and sluggish...I can always blame the rust but I don't think his mind is all the way in it. Mrazek has taken his job and I don't know if he's going to be the right option as a backup going forward.

agreed


goaltending is so much more mental then being a skater is, its all between his ears, the less he plays, the more attention mrazek gets then poorer his own game will become

we need to either play him a bit more or trade him and get a backup in return just to help us out this year

howard is not a good backup because he isnt a backup type goalie(at least not yet anyhow), you want the guy who can sit on the bench for a month then come in and steal you a game and play fantastic

 

[Marky9er]

agreed


goaltending is so much more mental then being a skater is, its all between his ears, the less he plays, the more attention mrazek gets then poorer his own game will become

we need to either play him a bit more or trade him and get a backup in return just to help us out this year

howard is not a good backup because he isnt a backup type goalie(at least not yet anyhow), you want the guy who can sit on the bench for a month then come in and steal you a game and play fantastic

I'd rather go the trade route, if he plays more he just ends up injured. What then?

 

[Shoalzie]

agreed


goaltending is so much more mental then being a skater is, its all between his ears, the less he plays, the more attention mrazek gets then poorer his own game will become

we need to either play him a bit more or trade him and get a backup in return just to help us out this year

howard is not a good backup because he isnt a backup type goalie(at least not yet anyhow), you want the guy who can sit on the bench for a month then come in and steal you a game and play fantastic

If Howard can play regularly somewhere, he can still be effective. He's a guy that can't just play once a week or every two weeks. Then again, I think a lot of top goalies wouldn't succeed doing that. Top goalies want the goal as much as possible.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If Howard can play regularly somewhere, he can still be effective. He's a guy that can't just play once a week or every two weeks. Then again, I think a lot of top goalies wouldn't succeed doing that. Top goalies want the goal as much as possible.

yep this

howard is a "reps" goalie

he needs game action and a lot of it to get into a groove and he simply will not get it here in detroit likely ever again

 

[14ari13]

Aside from the last goal, Howard looked pretty good, actually, all things considered. Just to give some people a perspective, the Ducks are a lot better than their record would indicate and the last time we played them they hit like 4 posts and Mrazek had one shot go through his legs and safely past the goal post. That game could've easily been a blowout. Just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

The last time we allowed 4 goals? Yes, Howard.
The ducks played last night.

Not what I said at all. What I am saying is Blashill should play Howard, the team will still make the playoffs with him while he gets to buff up his stats for a trade. He deserves to be starter. He needs to be a starter somewhere.

Last year at this time Howards stats mirrored Mrazeks his first 31 games. Howard was an all-star last year until he got injured. Wings haven't given him a chance to get back to game shape. Howard has trade value when he puts up 2.08 goals-against average and .921 save percentage like he did last year to start the season.

Soon Mrazek will get a big raise and Red Wings will have 8+ million tied up just in goaltending.

And people learned that his good numbers were because the team made him look good.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The last time we allowed 4 goals? Yes, Howard.
The ducks played last night.


And people learned that his good numbers were because the team made him look good.

Nice to form a narrative about a player based on how he is currently playing.

Apparently players and goalies can't play well then regress later on. If they start to play poorly their previous success was based on outside factors.

 

[Henkka]

There's no solution for trading Howard. Guy has negative value. I don't think anybody is gonna take him before the final year even with 50% salary retention.

Just give Mrazek 3-year bridge with still quite cheap prize (~3M) and then let Howard contract die away. Goaltending position together +8M, and eat it.

Or hope for a expansion draft.

 

[Frk It]

All that for 4.7 million dollars per year!!! Heck, based on Glendenings primary assist to Larkin against the Sabres the other day should justify him getting a raise to atleast 6 million per year.

That's exactly what I was saying...

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

There's no solution for trading Howard. Guy has negative value. I don't think anybody is gonna take him before the final year even with 50% salary retention.

Just give Mrazek 3-year bridge with still quite cheap prize (~3M) and then let Howard contract die away. Goaltending position together +8M, and eat it.

Or hope for a expansion draft.

i think their would be a couple of teams who would take on howard if we took on a contract they didn't want/need/like

so long as that contract is less than howards its a win for us

calgary for hillr and a 2nd wouldn't be unreasonable

 

[Marky9er]

calgary for hillr and a 2nd wouldn't be unreasonable

Would be great for us. Awful for the Flames to give up that pick(31-40 range) I think that's pretty unreasonable for them.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Would be great for us. Awful for the Flames to give up that pick(31-40 range) I think that's pretty unreasonable for them.

fair enough

i was thinking a starter like howard had that level of value, perhaps not

boy we have a lot of roster payers with very little league wide value if thats the case