No Man's Land for the last 20 years

[rockjngo]

I'm tired of being in no man's land for the last 20 odd years. We are neither good enough to win a cup and we don't nearly suck as much to get a high draft pick. I think we should look to rebuild the team properly. Since Bergervin took over, we've been in the top standing and clearly we aren't a team build for the playoffs. We have way too many old guys and way too slow. Guys like Gionta slowed down and isn't the same 20 goal scorer. Diaz, Briere, Desharnais, Parros, and Murray are no longer good enough to play in the league. Our system of speed and character aren't working and hasn't worked for the past 20 years. We need to get bigger, faster, and we must have a new system in place. Bergervin needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat and change this team's chemistry.

We need to change the dynamics of the system. Move Gionta, Markov, possibly Plekanec and even consider moving Gallagher or Pacioretty if we can land Evander Kane. Build the team around Price-Subban-Galchenyuk. We need to suck and get high draft picks. Call Edmonton and see if Nail Yakupov is available. If we don't change the dynamics of the team, look for another long 20 years.

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[AntonCH]

are you watching the game?

 

[benji]

Not going to get a much better player than Galchenyuk in an NHL draft. Give him time, keep the core there, and we're not doing that bad at all. He's our guy. Toews, Stamkos, Lecavalier, Thornton, etc...there are a bunch of first-rate guys with very similar learning patterns as Galchenyuk is currently showing. I wouldn't be so worried if I were you.

 

[fsdev905]

I was in high school the last time the Habs won a cup.
I'm hoping to see another cup before my grand children are in high school. I doubt I'd see one before my kids are in high school. That's only 10 years away.

 

[Lebowski]

This is a 30 teams league. Deal with it. Don't expect a cup every now and then.

The Habs is on the right path, and has been a relatively competitive team since 1993.

 

[yoteshot]

Really?

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I personally don't expect a Cup every year but over the last 30 years of watching, I'd like to see progress.

They have a good year and fall flat to mediocrity. They never fully rebuild and get generational talent.

My biggest beef is this incessant need to always be a small speed finesse team. It's a failed. All these years has proved it. Move on and bring a new culture and environment to the team

 

[TRG]

Will you open a thread every time the Habs lose a game?

 

[Kimota]

They just need to rebuild but be more obvious about it. Play Tinordi and Beaulieu to give them experience even if guys like Diaz and Gorges have to be moved for it. I feel that this year Bergevin is too conservative and has limited foresight. Last year he wanted to change things and right now it's like he's all "I like my team" wich is the mistake that too many GM makes. He needs to move more older pieces because chances are, when and if the Habs win the cup, those guys won't be there.

 

[hab 4ever]

I agree. Elite teams have a core of key players peaking at the same time. Our core basically extends from Galchenyuk (19) to Subban (24) with a bunch of very interesting pieces (MaxPac, Gally, Bournival, Eller, perhaps Tinordi, etc.) in that group (and Price who still a young goalie). Basically, guys like Markov and Plekanec won't be on this team when we win our next Cup so this is the right year to trade them while they have good value and add young players who will join our 19 to 24 group (Gionta too but he must have very little value). If we do so, we could have a dominant team for several years when the 18 to 24 group becomes the 22 to 27 group and more.

 

[Kimota]

I agree. Elite teams have a core of key players peaking at the same time. Our core basically extends from Galchenyuk (19) to Subban (24) with a bunch of very interesting pieces (MaxPac, Gally, Bournival, Eller, perhaps Tinordi, etc.) in that group (and Price who still a young goalie). Basically, guys like Markov and Plekanec won't be on this team when we win our next Cup so this is the right year to trade them while they have good value and add young players who will join our 19 to 24 group (Gionta too but he must have very little value). If we do so, we could have a dominant team for several years when the 18 to 24 group becomes the 22 to 27 group and more.

Hell just take the team MB was with two years ago, the Chicago Black Hawks. They didn't have any old players with them. All their best players had the same age when they won the cup and they are still with them now and were there when they won their second cup. All they did for a big coup was signing Hossa as UFA but this is the type of move you make when your core is solid and you're near the cup. It's like Colorado getting Ray Bourque.

 

[TiCats]

You will not change culture in a day. Give them time.

 

[Corncob]

Hell just take the team MB was with two years ago, the Chicago Black Hawks. They didn't have any old players with them. All their best players had the same age when they won the cup and they are still with them now and were there when they won their second cup.

Brian Campbell?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

This organization is hell-bent on sustained mediocrity.

Every two steps forward there's a step back and a little jig to celebrate. After a terrible year with lots of drama we were promised a new start and a new direction... Bergevin kept the same Franco-coach rule, kept the same roster intact, kept the same useless mercenary as captain and kept the same b-rate UFA policy.

The worst part is that after toiling around for years we're finally starting to have a pretty solid little core and they're just going to waste away like our last one did - and scrubs like DD and Gionta will get favourable linemates over Eller and Galvhenyuk because Therrien is desperate to win short-term and save his job.

A useless, aimless coach for a useless, aimless organization. Bergevin comes in with a cohort of executives and the best pro-scouting they can muster with essentially limitless caproom is Briere, Parros Prust, Drewiskie, Bouillon and Murray. To extend players at the most ridiculous times and to piss in the face of our stud, PK.

You guys call me a hater for criticizing these clowns but the results are there and speak for themselves: 1W 4L in the playoffs.

Do you think this team, under Therrien, can do any better this season?

He's a clown, and Bergevin is an arrogant clown. I'd like for nothing more than to be wrong about Bergevin (I was hyped up for his announcement) but his hockey moves are nothing more than deplorable. Therrien doesn't need any argument, what you see is what you get.

 

[rockjngo]

Nothing Bergervin has done made any sense:

Trading of Erik Cole for Michael Ryder, then using the cap to sign Daniel Briere. We move from 6'2" 210lbs speedy winger to 6'0" 200lbs slow semi sniper to 5'9" 180lbs slow winger. This is a downgrade!

Trading for George Parros. At 34 years old, does he have anything left in the tank? He's Gionta's, Markov's age ffs. Parros got knocked out twice this year.

Brandon Prust, ok I love the signing, he's a character guy but he always fight with players above his weight class.

Drew Drewiskie, has yet to play with the Habs this year and probably put on waviers.

Frankie Bouillon, at 37 years old the 5'7" 190lbs defenseman I think is finished. We need bigger defenseman.

Doug Murray, ok he's tough, size, but he's 34 years old, and is one of the slowest player in the league. I still laugh at that mistake against Buffalo when he fell face first giving up a goal in a harmless play. He's done.

 

[bsl]

I'm tired of being in no man's land for the last 20 odd years. We are neither good enough to win a cup and we don't nearly suck as much to get a high draft pick. I think we should look to rebuild the team properly. Since Bergervin took over, we've been in the top standing and clearly we aren't a team build for the playoffs. We have way too many old guys and way too slow. Guys like Gionta slowed down and isn't the same 20 goal scorer. Diaz, Briere, Desharnais, Parros, and Murray are no longer good enough to play in the league. Our system of speed and character aren't working and hasn't worked for the past 20 years. We need to get bigger, faster, and we must have a new system in place. Bergervin needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat and change this team's chemistry.

We need to change the dynamics of the system. Move Gionta, Markov, possibly Plekanec and even consider moving Gallagher or Pacioretty if we can land Evander Kane. Build the team around Price-Subban-Galchenyuk. We need to suck and get high draft picks. Call Edmonton and see if Nail Yakupov is available. If we don't change the dynamics of the team, look for another long 20 years.

This is a heavy board with a long history. Read up on it. I respect your views, but this is not a new idea here.

 

[drivefor25]

Strategy. That is the problem. What is MB's strategy? I never expected the Habs to win the cup this year or even next year but, with our core, I expected us to use the next 2 years to build the remaining pieces. What does MB do instead? Bouillon, Briere, Desharnais,Murray, etc - these are gap moves with absolutely no purpose for a 5 year plan (MB is in year 3). Play Tinordi and maybe even Beaulieu. Trade smaller players for big, young 3rd line / 4th line grinders (you won't get much more for them) that will be ready in a couple of years. Instead MB plugs holes with useless players that cost us over $ 10 M and serve no long term purpose. Like i said - where is the strategy? I have to say - not impressed with MB so far. Let's hope they are just learning curves and that he will adjust but something is telling me this is not the case. I don't mind not winning the cup over the next couple of years but want to see a plan / a strategy evolve - I am sorry but I am not seeing it.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Deal all the UFAs and non-core players, buy out or release the rest

Call it a tank if you want but its shedding deadweight or getting something rather than nothing for free agents

 

[Stan]

Strategy. That is the problem. What is MB's strategy? I never expected the Habs to win the cup this year or even next year but, with our core, I expected us to use the next 2 years to build the remaining pieces. What does MB do instead? Bouillon, Briere, Desharnais,Murray, etc - these are gap moves with absolutely no purpose for a 5 year plan (MB is in year 3). Play Tinordi and maybe even Beaulieu. Trade smaller players for big, young 3rd line / 4th line grinders (you won't get much more for them) that will be ready in a couple of years. Instead MB plugs holes with useless players that cost us over $ 10 M and serve no long term purpose. Like i said - where is the strategy? I have to say - not impressed with MB so far. Let's hope they are just learning curves and that he will adjust but something is telling me this is not the case. I don't mind not winning the cup over the next couple of years but want to see a plan / a strategy evolve - I am sorry but I am not seeing it.

I agree with some of your points. I haven't been blown away by MB's moves so far. However, I disagree with rushing prospects. Its great to say; "give them playing time", but if that leads to them losing confidence it effects their development. Look what Toronto did to Schenn and now Reilly. Sometimes you need useless gap players. Don't get me wrong, we have a few too many....but they're better than the alternative. MB hasn't made any great trades, but he hasn't made any awful ones either. Gainey killed us by making one really bad move that he felt pressured to make.

I do agree that the timing of his moves are questionable. The Desharnais signing was a miss IMO. Its not awful, but I think it would have been fine at 2-3 years. The Kristo trade was stupid. I think we should have developed him and if he still didn't have the qualities we want, then move him when his value is higher for something we need...not an undersized winger (Thomas may develop into something...still don't think it was necessary).

 

[optimus2861]

The Habs is on the right path, and has been a relatively competitive team since 1993.

No, the San Jose Sharks have been a relatively competitive team since 1993. They've had 6 first-place finishes (us: 2), made 3 appearances in the conference final (us: 1), and won 14 playoff rounds (us: 6).

Think about that. We have an inferior performance record over the past 20 years than a team that had only been in existence for a single season at the time of our last championship. So what the hell is our excuse?

 

[habitue*]

Habs are #1 ( or equal to TO) somewhere in the NHL:. Packaging and marketing.

How can they sell so much, charge so much for that type of product. ?

 

[Kimota]

Brian Campbell?

That's one guy.

 

[Corncob]

That's one guy.

Which was all it took to prove your statement untrue.

You could arguably include others depending on how wide your definition of 'best players' is.

 

[Kimota]

Which was all it took to prove your statement untrue.

You could arguably include others depending on how wide your definition of 'best players' is.

What are you trying to say?

 

[Analyzer*]

I thought this was about someone being consistent at being in front of the net and being a menace.

JVR would be so great for this team.