No american in the top-10 the last three drafts

[Bjorn Le]

Hockey doesn't really either. Its not like Canada is churning out hockey players who are in an unrivaled level of athleticism. So why would the U.S. need its super athletes to choose hockey to compete with the Canadian program? I just don't see hockey as a sport that really relies on super athleticism nearly as much as some others.
I'm not saying the U.S. will ever overtake Canada, but I certainly don't think hockey would have to surpass any others as far as popularity goes for it to happen.

Super-Athlete does not mean just athleticism. It's talent, and a drive for the sport from an early age. Unless hockey becomes much more popular, that drive as a child won't be as strong, and you won't get a player like Crosby or Ovechkin. Basketball and Football are the only sports in the US that really make those on a consistent basis. Baseball has tonnes of stars but no one player who dominates the sport like they used to.

For the US to have one of these super talents, they'll need a player who from an early age all they wanted was hockey, an also had the talent and athleticism to go along with it. A raw combination in Canada, even rarer in the US. It's the culture, and the US doesn't have that. They'll produce a super talent eventually, but they'll never produce more than a few.

Tons. Baseball is America's sport just like Hockey is Canada's. Baseball is becoming very popular all over the world, more so than Hockey, it's pretty much the #1 sport in several spanish speaking countries as well, Japan is huge on baseball, and it's slowly gaining ground in Korea and the Netherlands. Hell, the Toronto Blue Jays will be more popular than the Leafs soon, I guarantee it.

Name them.

And I'm not sure what your other points are. Baseball has been very popular in many Latin countries for a long time, and it has been in Japan for a very long time as well. That's not changing. In the US however it's losing popularity very fast, and Korea and the Netherlands I would consider on the same level as Australia for hockey. Sports growing in those countries, shows no signs of stopping, but it'll take a very long time for it to get even close to level of the top countries.

And the Blue Jays will never be more popular than the Leafs. In the late 80s and 90s when Toronto lived and breathed baseball, the Leafs were still more popular (With the Jays selling out all 81 games with 50,000+ people). The Jays will never reach that level again (They'll come lose if they become a contender again), and the Leafs will never lose popularity.

 

[Coco the Monkey*]

Name them.
.

lol. There are a lot. Many baseball players also played football and/or basketball in high school/college.

Past
Jackie Robinson
Ricky Henderson
Roberto Alomar
Barry Bonds (pre-steroids he was an all-around machine)
Ken Griffey Jr. - best past example.
Lou Gehrig
Dave Winfield
Bo Jackson
Nomar Garciaparra

Current - Players in bold are current superstar athletes produced by the USA.
Jose Reyes
Alex Rodriguez - probably the best example. Legit superstar since his youth.
Carl Crawford
Jacoby Ellsbury
Andrew McCutchen
Bryce Harper
Josh Hamilton (pre and post drugs)
Matt Kemp
Ryan Braun
Dustin Pedroia
Jimmy Rollins
Drew Stubbs
Elvis Andrus
Brett Gardner
Curtis Granderson
Ian Kinsler
Hanley Ramirez
Michael Bourn
Justin Upton
Derek Jeter (obviously older now)

and those are just hitters...lots of pitchers are sick athletes/superstars as well. Roy Halladay, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Heath Bell, Justin Verlander, Jered Weaver, CC Sabathia (he's not an athlete though lol), Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, the list goes on and on.

EDIT: I didn't see that you were just focusing on Americans. Well most of them are American, so my list stands as is.

EDIT #2: I see you didn't just mean athleticism. I bolded who are "superstar prospect" type guys.

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

was colin wilson the last american in the top 10?

 

[member 96824]

Baseball is steadily declining in the United States.

I bet you in 15 years you will have alot more US born players...we're seeing the emergence of California and other non hockey states produce quality prospects. In 15 years, you'll have a huge surge of Massachusetts products(I'm sure this Bruins win made alot of kids embrace hockey, hell all of new england did) and I'd bet Tennessee too.

 

[ID]

was colin wilson the last american in the top 10?

Bogo in 08 3rd overall year before that USA had 2 1st overall's in Kane 07 and Johnson in 06

 

[AmericanDream]

no biggie.....2012 draft should have 4 top 10 Americans and 2013 is simply amazing in top 10 talent for the US. will be best back to back drafts for us possibly ever.

 

[Bjorn Le]

lol. There are a lot. Many baseball players also played football and/or basketball in high school/college.

Past
Jackie Robinson
Ricky Henderson
Roberto Alomar
Barry Bonds (pre-steroids he was an all-around machine)
Ken Griffey Jr. - best past example.
Lou Gehrig
Dave Winfield
Bo Jackson
Nomar Garciaparra

Current - Players in bold are current superstar athletes produced by the USA.
Jose Reyes
Alex Rodriguez - probably the best example. Legit superstar since his youth.
Carl Crawford
Jacoby Ellsbury
Andrew McCutchen
Bryce Harper
Josh Hamilton (pre and post drugs)
Matt Kemp
Ryan Braun
Dustin Pedroia
Jimmy Rollins
Drew Stubbs
Elvis Andrus
Brett Gardner
Curtis Granderson
Ian Kinsler
Hanley Ramirez
Michael Bourn
Justin Upton
Derek Jeter (obviously older now)

and those are just hitters...lots of pitchers are sick athletes/superstars as well. Roy Halladay, Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Heath Bell, Justin Verlander, Jered Weaver, CC Sabathia (he's not an athlete though lol), Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, the list goes on and on.

EDIT: I didn't see that you were just focusing on Americans. Well most of them are American, so my list stands as is.

EDIT #2: I see you didn't just mean athleticism. I bolded who are "superstar prospect" type guys.

Bryce Harper, Jeter and ARod are the only ones I would conside super talents there. Some superstars but not upper tier superstars which the NBA and NFA get one every couple years. Like

Jeter and ARod are old so they go with my not as many as they used to. Theres a few pitching ones as well, but there isn't many, and most are older. I can't think of anyone in baseball who talent wise above everyone that is equal to the super talents of the other sports.

 

[Claypool]

For a country that seemingly hates hockey, the U.S. produces some good players.

If Hockey was #1 in U.S. like Canada, I imagine most of the NHL would be comprised of U.S. players like the NFL.

 

[Daneurism]

Super-Athlete does not mean just athleticism. It's talent, and a drive for the sport from an early age. Unless hockey becomes much more popular, that drive as a child won't be as strong, and you won't get a player like Crosby or Ovechkin. Basketball and Football are the only sports in the US that really make those on a consistent basis. Baseball has tonnes of stars but no one player who dominates the sport like they used to.

For the US to have one of these super talents, they'll need a player who from an early age all they wanted was hockey, an also had the talent and athleticism to go along with it. A raw combination in Canada, even rarer in the US. It's the culture, and the US doesn't have that. They'll produce a super talent eventually, but they'll never produce more than a few.



Name them.

And I'm not sure what your other points are. Baseball has been very popular in many Latin countries for a long time, and it has been in Japan for a very long time as well. That's not changing. In the US however it's losing popularity very fast, and Korea and the Netherlands I would consider on the same level as Australia for hockey. Sports growing in those countries, shows no signs of stopping, but it'll take a very long time for it to get even close to level of the top countries.

And the Blue Jays will never be more popular than the Leafs. In the late 80s and 90s when Toronto lived and breathed baseball, the Leafs were still more popular (With the Jays selling out all 81 games with 50,000+ people). The Jays will never reach that level again (They'll come lose if they become a contender again), and the Leafs will never lose popularity.

Baseball is the second most popular sport in South Korea next to soccer, they have an established and successful professional league which in 2010, had an average attendance of 11,000 people per game. The most popular Korean baseball team, Lotte, averaged over 20,000 in attendance per game. In addition to the popularity of the sport in within the country, Korea also produce quality baseball players exemplified by their impressive record in international tournaments. Australia has an abysmal record in international ice hockey tournaments.

The average salary in the Korean Professional Baseball League is 87,000 which is on par with or eclipses the average salary of any league that isn't MLB or NPB. The league is able to attract former MLB players(Odalis Perez, Dustin Nippert) and pay them handsomely(Perez has a base salary of 300,000). Players in the Australian Ice Hockey League are not salaried.

The comparison of Baseball's popularity in South Korea to that of Ice Hockey in Australia is ludicrous.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Only way I can see the USA becoming the top hockey nation is for hockey in the USA to take over at least baseball as the most popular sport. It'll never touch football, and similarly basketball. Baseball I don't even think is possible.

Like someone else said, unless the top American atheletes start wanting to play hockey from an early age, it simply won't happen. US mega athletes always choose Football/Basketball, more attention, more money. I don't see the US having a player on Crosby, Ovechkin, hell even Stamkos's level for a long time.

To Stamkos, Parise, Kane and heck even Kesler say hi with more to follow quickly

Cam Fowler should have been drafted in the top 10 last summer.

Yes he should have and might be included in the mix to my 1st response in this thread

they have a good chance in 2012, if Galchenyuk plays for the US he is a lock for top 10 right now and Ebert has a good shot as well

He would also be in the mix with the above players in the next 5 years or so if he plays for the US and he is US born.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Baseball is the second most popular sport in South Korea next to soccer, they have an established and successful professional league which in 2010, had an average attendance of 11,000 people per game. The most popular Korean baseball team, Lotte, averaged over 20,000 in attendance per game. In addition to the popularity of the sport in within the country, Korea also produce quality baseball players exemplified by their impressive record in international tournaments. Australia has an abysmal record in international ice hockey tournaments.

The average salary in the Korean Professional Baseball League is 87,000 which is on par with or eclipses the average salary of any league that isn't MLB or NPB. The league is able to attract former MLB players(Odalis Perez, Dustin Nippert) and pay them handsomely(Perez has a base salary of 300,000). Players in the Australian Ice Hockey League are not salaried.

The comparison of Baseball's popularity in South Korea to that of Ice Hockey in Australia is ludicrous.

I was using his example for teams.

But I really question what you're doing on a hockey board if you know so much about Korean baseball

 

[Ban Hammered]

Bryce Harper, Jeter and ARod are the only ones I would conside super talents there. Some superstars but not upper tier superstars which the NBA and NFA get one every couple years. Like

Jeter and ARod are old so they go with my not as many as they used to. Theres a few pitching ones as well, but there isn't many, and most are older. I can't think of anyone in baseball who talent wise above everyone that is equal to the super talents of the other sports.

One he did forget who is a super talent, not to mention just a great Athlete...Joe Mauer.

 

[boredmale]

To put a positive spin on 2010, wasn't there something like 11-12 American's picked in the first round

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

Bogo in 08 3rd overall year before that USA had 2 1st overall's in Kane 07 and Johnson in 06

So Wilson was the last one drafted in the top ten, he was 7th overall in 08

 

[StarvinArvyn33]

To put a positive spin on 2010, wasn't there something like 11-12 American's picked in the first round

probably, but i looked it up earlier and since 09 theres only been like 21 americans picked in the first rd compared to like 46? or something canadians, quite a margin.

 

[Ketchup]

I agree, this constant stream of american rookies doing well is making it more and more clear that USA is the second best hockey nation in the world right now. Still to even have a sniff at the nr.1 spot they need to develop more high-end players.

In the last two WC they have finish as number 13 and 8, and you say that they are number 2 in the world?

 

[hyduK]

In the last two WC they have finish as number 13 and 8, and you say that they are number 2 in the world?

they finished 2nd in the olympics and 1st in the wjc...no one watches the wc, and most good players aren't even there.

 

[Heat McManus]

In the last two WC they have finish as number 13 and 8, and you say that they are number 2 in the world?

In the last Olympics they finished #2. Most people will weigh best-on-best tournament higher than one where most of the best players are not available. Either way, it's debatable.

Hockey in the US will never rival football, basketball, or baseball for a number of reasons. That said, the US is still producing some great talent and there's bound to be a dip here and there.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

There's always going to be an ebb and flow with this kind of stuff (except for Canada). The U.S. was up for a few years with a ton of top ten picks and a country like Sweden was down. Now, Sweden is the flavor of the moment. It's all cyclical. That being said, the U.S. has had a ton of players drafted overall the last decade or so, and many of the more undervalued picks are shining. It's all good.

 

[Haute Couturier]

Super-Athlete does not mean just athleticism. It's talent, and a drive for the sport from an early age. Unless hockey becomes much more popular, that drive as a child won't be as strong, and you won't get a player like Crosby or Ovechkin. Basketball and Football are the only sports in the US that really make those on a consistent basis. Baseball has tonnes of stars but no one player who dominates the sport like they used to.

For the US to have one of these super talents, they'll need a player who from an early age all they wanted was hockey, an also had the talent and athleticism to go along with it. A raw combination in Canada, even rarer in the US. It's the culture, and the US doesn't have that. They'll produce a super talent eventually, but they'll never produce more than a few.

I don't think it is difference in culture or drive for the game as much as it is accessibility. Hockey is so much more accessible in Canada because there are plenty of rinks to be found. You also hear of players who have their own back yard rinks in the winter where they practice for hours each day, but it doesn't get cold enough for that in the most of the US. Then there is the whole issue of the cost of the sport. Some inner city kid can't afford to play hockey, but he can spend hours each day shooting hoops in his local park.


The easier access to hockey means more development time and that makes a difference. You even see a similar effect in baseball. In baseball there are far more kids drafted from the warm southern states where they can play most of the year than the northern states where it is too cold to play half of the year.

Bryce Harper, Jeter and ARod are the only ones I would conside super talents there. Some superstars but not upper tier superstars which the NBA and NFA get one every couple years. Like

Jeter and ARod are old so they go with my not as many as they used to. Theres a few pitching ones as well, but there isn't many, and most are older. I can't think of anyone in baseball who talent wise above everyone that is equal to the super talents of the other sports.

In reality, there are only a handful of super talents in each sport. There certainly aren't many players that are on the same level as Crosby in hockey.

You previously mentioned baseball doesn't produce as many superstar quality prospects, but baseball is the hardest sport to project compared to the others. A player drafted into the MLB is a lot further away from the majors than they are in any other sport. There is a much higher bust rate there. As a result, people don't follow baseball prospects the way they do other sports. On top of that, pitchers are much more prone to injury compared to other athletes so you can have superstar quality prospects like Mark Prior and Stephen Strasburg have their careers derailed by injury before they really get started. Well it's too early to write Strasburg off, but you get the point. BTW Strasburg was certainly a Crosby like prospect for baseball.

 

[Ketchup]

they finished 2nd in the olympics and 1st in the wjc...no one watches the wc, and most good players aren't even there.

If the standard of the WC is so low, why isn’t then USA dominating there? Players like Ovechkin and Duchene didn’t have one single point in the last WC.

WC is probably the only tournament where the players plays on neutral ground. Tournament that are played in USA/Canada can never be taking seriously, so there were no big surprise that they make it to the finals in the Olympics, but they will not have done that if the tournament was played outside USA/Canada. Either Canada or USA has take even a single medal when the best has played in the Olympics, and when the Olympics has taking placed outside USA/Canada, but if you look at tournaments when it is played in USA/Canada, like this one and Salt lake city and all of the World Cup tournament then at least Canada are always in the finals. Coincidence? I do not think so. So no tournament that are played in USA/Canada can be taking seriously.

Then there are some basic problems with the Olympics itself. Olympics are fun, but No pre-matches, you have to take out the squad about two months before the tournament without ever have played that squad together before that tournament, and the actually tournament itself is rush through.

WJC has some of these problems also, but either way, what happens in WJC has not much to do with witch senior nations is the best. Or are Switzerland the second best football/soccer-nation in Europe just because they finish second in the last U21-EC?

The WC is the best tournament right now, but sure it could have been a lot better if it wasn’t for the NHL.

 

[Ruslan Zainullin]

First of all I hardly think there is any problem with the state of hockey in the United States, they are producing more quality players than ever before. I have a few points to make that may add to the conversation:

1) In the United States hockey is largely a prep school sport, especially in the north east. It is more expensive to play than many of the other more traditional sports in the country, and as such it is played by kids from wealthier families. It is not uncommon to see an American NHL player who spent his high school years at someplace like avon old farms in connecticut and then go on to harvard or princeton for his college hockey. conversely in Canada hockey is a game that all kids play, and a lot of families who would not support a child in such an expensive sport make drastic sacrifices to do so. It is also a part of the culture in Canada, in summer you will see kids playing ball hockey in the street all over the place, this might be a common sight in Minnesota, but it is not a nationwide phenomenon like it is in Canada. You also have more kids playing pick up hockey at public rinks in the winter, and again, im sure this is a common sight in some of the northern states also, but it is not a nationwide phenomenon.

2) The popularity of hockey is not nationwide, it is popular in the north east, michigan, minnesota etc, however it is not the number one sport nationwide like it is in Canada, and as such the talent comes from the regions of the country where it is popular, all of a sudden you are not drawing from a 300 million person talent pool, you are drawing from a 50 or 60 million person talent pool, and out of that 50 or 60 million many are demographically excluded simply based on economics. In Canada you draw from a 35 million person talent pool who is more likely to work around the economics, as such the talent pool is actually bigger to choose from than it is in a country with a much larger population.

3) non traditional markets are producing more players than ever before, however, the economics of playing hockey in texas or southern california makes it once again, a sport for the wealthy. less ice to play on, the only ice you have is artificial eg no playing outside.

all that being said, i think USA hockey is doing a phenomenal job with player development, the NTDP was a great idea that is working very well, and the USA will continue to produce very good players for years to come despite the fact that hockey will not reach the stature that baseball, basketball and football have nationwide.

 

[Dread Clawz]

The U.S. has won the last three WJC U-18's. Hockey in the U.S. is getting stronger, not weaker. It's only a matter of time until Americans are cranked out consistently in the top 10. And also, Nick Ebert will end that three year streak in 2012.

 

[Dread Clawz]

no biggie.....2012 draft should have 4 top 10 Americans and 2013 is simply amazing in top 10 talent for the US. will be best back to back drafts for us possibly ever.

Four? Ebert, Trouba, I assume you are counting Galchenyuk as an American... who's the 4th lock?

 

[Gump Hasek]

The U.S. has won the last three WJC U-18's. Hockey in the U.S. is getting stronger, not weaker.

Do you mean the IIHF U18 tournament held during the CHL playoffs, when many of Canada's best players are unavailable for the tournament? That one?