Confirmed Trade: [NJD/SJS] Meier (50%), Harrington, Ibragimov, Emond, Hatakka, ‘24 5th for ‘23 1st, cond ‘24 1st, Johnsson, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, Zetterlund, 24 7th

[HugeInTheShire]

Devils fans don't understand the notion of "selling high". They can literally watch the last five years of Edmonton and Toronto failures and be like, "we're not going down that same route" while going down that same route.

Outside fans don't understand that other teams aren't lining up to hand over an elite goaltender and trading from the depth the Devils have or handing a big long term contract to a goalie that might turn into Jack Campbell, is how you end up being the Oilers.

I have no doubt the if the right goalie becomes available even at an overpay, Fitz will move on them but what he won't and shouldn't do is sacrifice depth for a different goalie that isn't a clear upgrade on what they have.

 

[TheBeard]

Outside fans don't understand that other teams aren't lining up to hand over an elite goaltender and trading from the depth the Devils have or handing a big long term contract to a goalie that might turn into Jack Campbell, is how you end up being the Oilers.

I have no doubt the if the right goalie becomes available even at an overpay, Fitz will move on them but what he won't and shouldn't do is sacrifice depth for a different goalie that isn't a clear upgrade on what they have.

No, the Oilers became the Oilers because they assumed paying for a goalie was suddenly going to make all their other deficiencies go away. Devils have a solid foundation both up front and at the blue line, which is something Edmonton never had.

But, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing yada yada yada, so either the the devils keep going to that well of discount darlings or they make a big splash which will either put them over the top or anchor them down.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

No, the Oilers became the Oilers because they assumed paying for a goalie was suddenly going to make all their other deficiencies go away. Devils have a solid foundation both up front and at the blue line, which is something Edmonton never had.

But, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing yada yada yada, so either the the devils keep going to that well of discount darlings or they make a big splash which will either put them over the top or anchor them down.

I don't disagree with you, but Edmonton swung a lot more times than Campbell he's just the latest mistake. NJ desperately wants to avoid overpaying the wrong guy over and over and over again.

The Devils have been good for exactly 1 season, they're nowhere near using your second paragraph to describe them.

 

[TheBeard]

I don't disagree with you, but Edmonton swung a lot more times than Campbell he's just the latest mistake. NJ desperately wants to avoid overpaying the wrong guy over and over and over again.

The Devils have been good for exactly 1 season, they're nowhere near using your second paragraph to describe them.

Edmonton's issue wasn't goaltending so much as the structure of the team. Very few goalies except the absolute elite would thrive there. Jersey just needs a goalie good enough to not be pulled on a semi-regular basis.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Goaltenders, in a way, are like quarterbacks in football. Without a good one you better have a deep, elite team to compensate. just excelling at one aspect isn't gonna win anything. It's how Vegas managed to do it last year and how Florida managed to make it to the cup.

Devils would be foolish to waste the talent pool they have now by continuing to go dumpster diving in nets. I get the idea no GM wants to see one of their own prospects excel in someone's system because as we see on social media and even here, one poor decision tends to negate the perception of a GM's overall body of work. If you're paying guys on your third and fourth line more than you're paying your starting goalie then you're just doing a poor job allocating your resources.

Sure, to an extent, I don't see why the Devils are being laughed at though by most of the league. Their defense has regressed immeasurably since last year, guys like Mercer/Timo have had slow starts. Would a goalie like Gibson or Hellebuyck stop said bleeding? Maybe? But you're probably giving up Holtz in a trade for the latter and he's been one of our better 5v5 players this year. I think more teams saw what the Avs/Vegas did and have been a bit frightened to commit super long term to goalies with a young roster. Like the other Devils fan has said, Fitz will go for a goalie once comes up that fits this team's timeline. I don't think you can say the guy is scared when he's made some of the biggest trades in this team's rebuild over Shero.

 

[TheBeard]

Sure, to an extent, I don't see why the Devils are being laughed at though by most of the league. Their defense has regressed immeasurably since last year, guys like Mercer/Timo have had slow starts. Would a goalie like Gibson or Hellebuyck stop said bleeding? Maybe? But you're probably giving up Holtz in a trade for the latter and he's been one of our better 5v5 players this year. I think more teams saw what the Avs/Vegas did and have been a bit frightened to commit super long term to goalies with a young roster. Like the other Devils fan has said, Fitz will go for a goalie once comes up that fits this team's timeline. I don't think you can say the guy is scared when he's made some of the biggest trades in this team's rebuild over Shero.

Avs/Vegas have insane depth on the blue line. Jersey can either beef up the blue line in the hopes their goalies never have to stand on their head, or they can take a chance and reel in a big fish at a cost. If you don't think the Devil's timeline is right now then I don't know what to tell you. Timo and Mercer will find their games while Holtz is the hot hand with the highest trade value of the realistic trade commodities. You're not even necessarily picking up a goalie for the regular season so much as someone who's shown to not shrink when the playoffs come around.

 

[My3Sons]

Avs/Vegas have insane depth on the blue line. Jersey can either beef up the blue line in the hopes their goalies never have to stand on their head, or they can take a chance and reel in a big fish at a cost. If you don't think the Devil's timeline is right now then I don't know what to tell you. Timo and Mercer will find their games while Holtz is the hot hand with the highest trade value of the realistic trade commodities. You're not even necessarily picking up a goalie for the regular season so much as someone who's shown to not shrink when the playoffs come around.

They have a 20 year old and 19 year old who are already two of their better defenders. The 19 year old led thr team in ice time yesterday. They aren’t in win now mode. I understand your point about not waiting but they have to balance their cap and that will take two years.

 

[mlzy]

Maybe. And sure, every single Devils fan is too stupid to understand the idea of selling high. Every single one. And you wonder why these boards are just insults hurled back and forth.

That’s exactly why nobody on this forum is an nhl gm, the key is to sell when a player reaches max potential, very few know when that time is!

 

[Mattb124]

Sure, to an extent, I don't see why the Devils are being laughed at though by most of the league. Their defense has regressed immeasurably since last year, guys like Mercer/Timo have had slow starts. Would a goalie like Gibson or Hellebuyck stop said bleeding? Maybe? But you're probably giving up Holtz in a trade for the latter and he's been one of our better 5v5 players this year. I think more teams saw what the Avs/Vegas did and have been a bit frightened to commit super long term to goalies with a young roster. Like the other Devils fan has said, Fitz will go for a goalie once comes up that fits this team's timeline. I don't think you can say the guy is scared when he's made some of the biggest trades in this team's rebuild over Shero.

You should see what this guy Blackwood has been doing for the Sharks, keeping them in games they have no business competing in. If only NJD had a guy like that…..

 

[My3Sons]

That’s exactly why nobody on this forum is an nhl gm, the key is to sell when a player reaches max potential, very few know when that time is!

No on this board the key is to set up an unrealistic scenario and then insult the other team’s fanbase and city.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You should see what this guy Blackwood has been doing for the Sharks, keeping them in games they have no business competing in. If only NJD had a guy like that…..

At this point, I think it's our goaltending coach. Every goalie that has left in the past few years has looked leaps and bounds they did with NJ. Wedgewood and Blackwood are just two examples, I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting

 

[Hodge]

Devils should just relax and let talent win out over 82 games as it usually does. Vanecek won’t finish the season .877 and with the way they dictate play NJ doesn’t need anything approaching Vezina goaltending to win. I would try to add a defensively sound vet dman like Tanev and stand pat otherwise.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Devils should just relax and let talent win out over 82 games as it usually does. Vanecek won’t finish the season .877 and with the way they dictate play NJ doesn’t need anything approaching Vezina goaltending to win. I would try to add a defensively sound vet dman like Tanev and stand pat otherwise.

Vitek hasn't been good since around March though, that's the whole issue. His playoffs were a super red flag for this fanbase, no one expected him to win us a Cup but he almost single handedly gave the Rags that series in games 1-2. He just needs to play a decent level for this team to be a top 3-5 team in the East and he hasn't given that to us. You're probably right with how fluky goaltending is but still.

 

[Smitty426]

They have a 20 year old and 19 year old who are already two of their better defenders. The 19 year old led thr team in ice time yesterday. They aren’t in win now mode. I understand your point about not waiting but they have to balance their cap and that will take two years.

They aren't but they are surely wasting away some of these good contracts in 86 and 13. They will be half way through once they are serious contenders, not what most of us had hoped for. Last year was an early present, but don't squander it!

 

[Hodge]

Vitek hasn't been good since around March though, that's the whole issue. His playoffs were a super red flag for this fanbase, no one expected him to win us a Cup but he almost single handedly gave the Rags that series in games 1-2. He just needs to play a decent level for this team to be a top 3-5 team in the East and he hasn't given that to us. You're probably right with how fluky goaltending is but still.

Vanecek might not be the solution but I would bet that someone between him, Schmid and a goalie they could probably get at a pretty low acquisition cost like Vejmelka or even James Reimer will emerge and give them passable enough goaltending. If they can get a truly elite starter like Saros or Swayman they should obviously do it but that seems pretty unlikely.

 

[My3Sons]

They aren't but they are surely wasting away some of these good contracts in 86 and 13. Tehy will be half way through once they are serious contenders, not what most of us had hoped for. Last year was an early present, but don't squander it!

They gambled and lost a bit with Vanacek. They can figure it out in thr offseason but why make a drastic move for one season when you are training children on defense? The team has to move some cap around in thr offseason.

 

[TheBeard]

Vanecek might not be the solution but I would bet that someone between him, Schmid and a goalie they could probably get at a pretty low acquisition cost like Vejmelka or even James Reimer will emerge and give them passable enough goaltending. If they can get a truly elite starter like Saros or Swayman they should obviously do it but that seems pretty unlikely.

Imagine having this much talent and a stacked prospect cupboard to boot and trying to sell the fanbase on James Reimer for a 4th as the piece to put them over the finish line.

 

[Hodge]

Imagine having this much talent and a stacked prospect cupboard to boot and trying to sell the fanbase on James Reimer for a 4th as the piece to put them over the finish line.

Goaltending is voodoo. Vegas just won with Adin Hill. Unless you have a way to acquire one of the like 5 proven elite starters, who teams almost never trade away for that very reason, your best move is not to commit term or dollars to the position.

 

[Smitty426]

Vanecek might not be the solution but I would bet that someone between him, Schmid and a goalie they could probably get at a pretty low acquisition cost like Vejmelka or even James Reimer will emerge and give them passable enough goaltending. If they can get a truly elite starter like Saros or Swayman they should obviously do it but that seems pretty unlikely.

Nedeljkovic?

They gambled and lost a bit with Vanacek. They can figure it out in thr offseason but why make a drastic move for one season when you are training children on defense? The team has to move some cap around in thr offseason.

Depending on Dougies return does adding sone stabilizing vet D help? Tanev would help Vitek back there. The Devs vets have been a bigger problem than the kids tbh!

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Goaltending is voodoo. Vegas just won with Adin Hill. Unless you have a way to acquire one of the like 5 proven elite starters, who teams almost never trade away for that very reason, your best move is not to commit term or dollars to the position.

The difference is that Vegas has a good defense. Antii Niemi won a cup, Colorado won in spite of Keumper, and Hill isn't a exactly Vezina-caliber goalie himself.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Edmonton's issue wasn't goaltending so much as the structure of the team. Very few goalies except the absolute elite would thrive there. Jersey just needs a goalie good enough to not be pulled on a semi-regular basis.

So you do realize that NJ isn't headed down the same path as Edmonton, even though you previously stated they were. LOL

As for the Devils current goalie situation, I have no idea who if anyone is available that would be an upgrade on their current duo. They may be forced to ride out the year with these two or grab a different mid level guy and hope they get into a Hill situation.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

The 19 and 20 year olds are not among the better defenders for New Jersey at this stage of their careers (in fact, the 20-year-old is hardly a defender at all at this point).

 

[TheBeard]

So you do realize that NJ isn't headed down the same path as Edmonton, even though you previously stated they were. LOL

As for the Devils current goalie situation, I have no idea who if anyone is available that would be an upgrade on their current duo. They may be forced to ride out the year with these two or grab a different mid level guy and hope they get into a Hill situation.

If NJ refuses to address their goaltending in a serious manner then they’re just gonna be in the same group of “what ifs” along with Edmonton and Toronto.

Also, not willing to at least attempt to upgrade a clear weakness that was a big reason as to why they lost last year is just a case of a GM unwillingness to show enough confidence in himself and his staff to put their reputations on the line by making a significant move. That’s the difference between the winners and losers. Vegas GM and TB GM took massive risks and they paid off.

 

[Forge]

If NJ refuses to address their goaltending in a serious manner then they’re just gonna be in the same group of “what ifs” along with Edmonton and Toronto.

Also, not willing to at least attempt to upgrade a clear weakness that was a big reason as to why they lost last year is just a case of a GM unwillingness to show enough confidence in himself and his staff to put their reputations on the line by making a significant move. That’s the difference between the winners and losers. Vegas GM and TB GM took massive risks and they paid off.

One year is too soon to know how serious they are when addressing the position. Totally valid to run it back with those two after the year they had if they couldn't find a for sure better goalie at a price they wanted. As that goes on, the desperation to take wild swings on that probably goes up.

Also, love the humor in "not willing to attempt to upgrade a clear weakness" and "risk reputation for a significant move" in a trade thread about them giving up potentially 2 firsts round picks and a top 5 prospect in their pool along with a solid roster player for a power forward that everyone on the planet was adamant was desperately needed for the "undersized, mighty mites that is the devils forward group"

 

[HugeInTheShire]

If NJ refuses to address their goaltending in a serious manner then they’re just gonna be in the same group of “what ifs” along with Edmonton and Toronto.

Also, not willing to at least attempt to upgrade a clear weakness that was a big reason as to why they lost last year is just a case of a GM unwillingness to show enough confidence in himself and his staff to put their reputations on the line by making a significant move. That’s the difference between the winners and losers. Vegas GM and TB GM took massive risks and they paid off.

So in your opinion what goalie upgrade was available and what was the cost of this upgrade?
People love to point at Hellebuyck in Winnipeg, but was he ever actually available or was it all just noise to force a new contract? If he was, what was the asking price? There is no answer for this question unless of course you were in the room.

It's super easy to sit at your keyboard and say, they should have done this, or should have done that. What isn't as easy, is actually getting it done. We can sit here and say they should have offered Mercer, or they should have offered Nemec but the reality is they mave have done just that and Winnipeg wanted both, or Luke Hughes, we simply do not know.