Speculation: NJD Offseason Part IV

[CerebralGenesis]

I've wanted to trade Merrill for 3 years now. If there are some fools in the league that value him highly, trade them to him for something pronto. We can sign another 3rd pairing dman somewhere else.

 

[JimEIV]

I've wanted to trade Merrill for 3 years now. If there are some fools in the league that value him highly, trade them to him for something pronto. We can sign another 3rd pairing dman somewhere else.

He's barely been in the league for 3 years? You wanted to trade him before he played an NHL game? Lol.

This makes no sense.

 

[goonybird]

Merrill wasn't rushed like Larsson. You'd think he'd be better prepared having gone through the development system.

 

[JimEIV]

Merrill wasn't rushed like Larsson. You'd think he'd be better prepared having gone through the development system.

What development system?

His last two years at Michigan he hardly played due to injury and suspension and he only had a month in the AHL before joining NJ in early November.

In March of 2013 he was at Michigan after missing more than half a season and on November 3rd of 2013 he was in NJ playing his first NHL game

 

[devilsblood]

I think Merrill and Larsson could have spent more time at the very start of their career's in Albany. Moreso Larsson given how young he was.

Both suffered a bit from some initial good play in NJ only to see their game slide back. Lar's game has rebounded, haven't seen it yet from Merrill. Hopefully this season we see the bounce back.

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

I think Merrill and Larsson could have spent more time at the very start of their career's in Albany. Moreso Larsson given how young he was.

Both suffered a bit from some initial good play in NJ only to see their game slide back. Lar's game has rebounded, haven't seen it yet from Merrill. Hopefully this season we see the bounce back.

Management was irresponsible in their handling of young players back in those days, borderline reckless. The current group looks better prepared to deal with young upcoming players and they can still turn Merrill into a consistent player.

 

[devilsblood]

Management was irresponsible in their handling of young players back in those days, borderline reckless. The current group looks better prepared to deal with young upcoming players and they can still turn Merrill into a consistent player.

Will be interesting to see what they do with the likes of Q, Santini, Wood's, Jacob's and Blandisi.

If all those guys are in Albany to start next season I'll be impressed.

 

[JimEIV]

I think Merrill and Larsson could have spent more time at the very start of their career's in Albany. Moreso Larsson given how young he was.

Both suffered a bit from some initial good play in NJ only to see their game slide back. Lar's game has rebounded, haven't seen it yet from Merrill. Hopefully this season we see the bounce back.

This is what I have a problem with...What Merrill did this season people would've called good games from Larsson 3 years ago.... A game he wasn't beat people declared "solid" especially the period when he was paired with Gelinas right before he was sent down...Some were claiming it was great hockey..Great hockey not getting beat regularly...If you say so? I didn't see that way.

Where is that sort of leniency and rose colored glass for Merrill who is at the exact same experience level Larsson was then? This is what I don't get....Not only that, Merrill's performance this season was leaps and bounds better than what Larsson gave at any point from the second half of year 1, year two, three and parts of year 4.

We seems to want to wash that period away as he was young...And apparently Merrill was/is not....that is ludicrous.

Young defenders need time. I don't care who they are and what there exact age is. You look at someone like Greene or Oduya...Hell, Oduya was 25 years old with 3 years of Pro experience in the Swedish Elite league and still took a solid 150 games to adjust and learn the NHL game. This is guy who went on to have a very solid career but if you remember the first year and half it wasn't all that pretty.

I can't think of too many defenders to have ever hit the ground running without any warts and ugliness.

 

[JimEIV]

Merrill gets spun around by Ovechkin and everyone goes see he sucks...It happens practically every night to Larsson for the better part of 3 years and people go "DeBoers hates Swedes"

That is not even an exaggeration.

 

[devilsblood]

I said Lar's rebounded, which directly implies he needed to rebound from something.

It's Merrill's turn. First order of business is staying healthy.

 

[goonybird]

What development system?

His last two years at Michigan he hardly played due to injury and suspension and he only had a month in the AHL before joining NJ in early November.

In March of 2013 he was at Michigan after missing more than half a season and on November 3rd of 2013 he was in NJ playing his first NHL game

it's a lot compared to 0 games at Michigan and half of a premature NHL season missed due to injury.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I like Merril, although he struggled you see glimpses to what can make him good. Hopefully he puts it together next season.

 

[MadDevil]

it's a lot compared to 0 games at Michigan and half of a premature NHL season missed due to injury.

Larsson did play two years in the SEL, so it's not like he didn't have experience playing at a pretty high level before jumping into the NHL.

 

[JimEIV]

Larsson did play two years in the SEL, so it's not like he didn't have experience playing at a pretty high level before jumping into the NHL.

My point isn't really to compare Larsson to Merrill. My point is it took Larsson a tremendous amount time to become a major contributor to this team and that, to some degree, should be expected for most defensemen.

We also seem a little more accommodating to that notion for a 1st round pick than others...I mean the pass Josefson still gets and Tedenby got is mind blowing to me.

The reality is it should be opposite...we should be more tolerant of a 4th round pick taking time than a 1st...yet people were ready to trade Boucher 2 years ago and are just looking for a spot Josefson can fill when it is painfully obvious that he doesn't belong in the league.

 

[Triumph]

My point isn't really to compare Larsson to Merrill. My point is it took Larsson a tremendous amount time to become a major contributor to this team and that, to some degree, should be expected for most defensemen.

It shouldn't, though. If you looked around the league at other defensemen, they don't go typically backwards in ice time from Year 1 to Year 3, as Merrill has done (he's also gone backwards in penalty minutes). Just because that's happened to some of NJ's D over the years shouldn't be looked at as the way of the world.

The reality is it should be opposite...we should be more tolerant of a 4th round pick taking time than a 1st...yet people were ready to trade Boucher 2 years ago and are just looking for a spot Josefson can fill when it is painfully obvious that he doesn't belong in the league.

Larsson did show very obvious skills in addition to his very obvious deficiencies, but in general, this is true. If you're not seeing a high skill level from a player and your argument is 'He was picked in the 1st round', well, no, that's even worse. The scouts picked him presumably because they saw a lot of skill - if he's not exhibiting that it's a really bad sign.

 

[JimEIV]

It shouldn't, though. If you looked around the league at other defensemen, they don't go typically backwards in ice time from Year 1 to Year 3, as Merrill has done (he's also gone backwards in penalty minutes). Just because that's happened to some of NJ's D over the years shouldn't be looked at as the way of the world.

And this is sort of part of my point;

165 games is not 3 years. Between lockouts, injuries and multiple coaching staffs it was a quasi 3 years...same is true for Adam Larsson... at the beginning of his 4th year he had only played 128 games... that's not 3 years worth of hockey, it's not even 2.

After 2 years Severson has almost as much NHL experience as Larsson did over 3 seasons. And Severson lost time to injury as well.

If you look most players by year 3 they are over 200 NHL games played.

Larsson at 5 years is only at 274 and Merrill 3 years in is at 165

That is significant.

 

[Emperoreddy]

So does Stamko's bloodclot issue scare those who wanted us to try for him off? Change what your max offer would be hypothetically?

 

[Scorcho]

depends, he's probably gonna want max term

I wouldn't want to give him that

I'd be comfortable at 3-5 years @9mil

but i doubt he's sign here for thAT

 

[elindholm]

depends, he's probably gonna want max term

I wouldn't want to give him that

I'd be comfortable at 3-5 years @9mil

but i doubt he's sign here for thAT

He won't sign here (or any team that is in rebuild) Toronto fans are hoping he'll come "home"
...............nah! He's probably staying right where he is. The term is likely the hang up in his negotiation.
He wantas to get paid til his 42

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He won't sign here (or any team that is in rebuild) Toronto fans are hoping he'll come "home"
...............nah! He's probably staying right where he is. The term is likely the hang up in his negotiation.
He wantas to get paid til his 42

well, too bad that the longest his contract can take him to is 34 then!

 

[Tretyak 20]

Dumping Merrill for a pick or some low value prospect would be stupid. I wasn't particularly happy with his season this year, but he's still young and has shown considerable upside - and this after a fairly rocky development. If he can find some confidence and consistency, I think he can be a solid 2nd pair D.

 

[devilsblood]

So does Stamko's bloodclot issue scare those who wanted us to try for him off? Change what your max offer would be hypothetically?

Absolutely.

I mentioned this maybe in another thread but I think the blod clot combined with Tampa doing well without him will significantly reduce the bidding war.

 

[MadDevil]

Absolutely.

I mentioned this maybe in another thread but I think the blod clot combined with Tampa doing well without him will significantly reduce the bidding war.

Eh, it's still Stamkos and free agency. Players like him don't often hit the market, and we all know GMs just can't help themselves when it comes to free agency. It might drop his value a little for some teams, but I don't think it's going to significantly affect it.

 

[Balance]

I hope the Rangers sign Stamkos to a max contract for 7 years

 

[JimEIV]

I hope the Rangers sign Stamkos to a max contract for 7 years

That would be awesome....Then they can have about 25 million dollars worth of players that disappear in the playoffs