Nikita Zadorov

[tigervixxxen]

This org currently has 3 open contracts on D. When the QOs come in hopefully tomorrow that will be a big clue. If Clark and Elliott are qualified they seriously can only add one D contract.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

Start him on the 3rd with a vet, and allow him to work his way up. Don't just throw him into a top 4 role, like others have said he's still just 19. My two cents.

 

[the_fan]

Look who he crashes

 

[JoemAvs]

This org currently has 3 open contracts on D. When the QOs come in hopefully tomorrow that will be a big clue. If Clark and Elliott are qualified they seriously can only add one D contract.

Do you have a list of contracts? Would be very interested in something like this. How many contracts do we have already?
How far away from 50 are we with our latest moves?


I really doubt that both get qualified if we really only have 3 spots left. Unfortunately it really could be Elliott who is the odd man out.
That would really suck. He was pretty bad last year but I have always liked the kid and would like to hang onto him as long as possible. He also has been pretty solid in the AHL from what I've read (thanks again for your great coverage of LEM last year TV ).

Back to Zads:
Does anyone know anything about Mrs. Zadorov?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I can go more in depth elsewhere but to give a back of the napkin type rundown is this:

We currently have 37 contracts. O'Reilly + McGinn out = Sodeberg and Zadorov in. Last year we operated at 49 contract, which many felt was too tight and after the trade deadline we ended up at 48. I'm operating under the assumption they prefer to stay there and hold the same ratio of forward and defense contracts that they did last year in both NHL/AHL. There will be 5 goalies signed, 8 D for each AHL and NHL club so that leaves 27 forwards, 13 for the NHL and 14 for the AHL

Goalies: Martin, Will, Berra, Varlamov = 4 (Pickard needs signed = 1)

Defense: NHL Johnson, Barrie, Zadorov, Holden, Guenin, Redmond, Stuart = 7, AHL Bigras, Geertsen, Corbett, Noreau, Beaupre, Siemens = 6 (Total contract open 3)

Forwards: NHL Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Tanguay, Iginla, Sodeberg, Mitchell, Everberg, Cliche, Winchester, Bordeleau, McLeod =12 AHL Bourke, Smith, Henley, Street, Rendulic, Martinsen, Cheek, Meurs =8 (20 total signed, 7 slots). Still need to be qualified include Hishon, Hamilton, Grigorenko, Agozzino are the highlights. Also do you hold a slot for Rantanen, does that mean holding at 47? Put Grig in the NHL and 6 of these forwards must go to the AHL.

So we can sign 1 G, 3 D and 7 F to equal 48.

 

[RockLobster]

At this point, I'm not sure what we should believe we can "assume" from the front office. We didn't believe they'd draft a Euro in the 1st round, and they did. We didn't believe they'd draft a Russian, they drafted two!

Any preconceived notions about the Avs front office tendencies, it's reasonable to proceed with caution because so far Sakic and Roy are showing to not be that predictable.

 

[JoemAvs]

I can go more in depth elsewhere but to give a back of the napkin type rundown is this:

We currently have 37 contracts. O'Reilly + McGinn out = Sodeberg and Zadorov in. Last year we operated at 49 contract, which many felt was too tight and after the trade deadline we ended up at 48. I'm operating under the assumption they prefer to stay there and hold the same ratio of forward and defense contracts that they did last year in both NHL/AHL. There will be 5 goalies signed, 8 D for each AHL and NHL club so that leaves 27 forwards, 13 for the NHL and 14 for the AHL

Goalies: Martin, Will, Berra, Varlamov = 4 (Pickard needs signed = 1)

Defense: NHL Johnson, Barrie, Zadorov, Holden, Guenin, Redmond, Stuart = 7, AHL Bigras, Geertsen, Corbett, Noreau, Beaupre, Siemens = 6 (Total contract open 3)

Forwards: NHL Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Tanguay, Iginla, Sodeberg, Mitchell, Everberg, Cliche, Winchester, Bordeleau, McLeod =12 AHL Bourke, Smith, Henley, Street, Rendulic, Martinsen, Cheek, Meurs =8 (20 total signed, 7 slots). Still need to be qualified include Hishon, Hamilton, Grigorenko, Agozzino are the highlights. Also do you hold a slot for Rantanen, does that mean holding at 47? Put Grig in the NHL and 6 of these forwards must go to the AHL.

So we can sign 1 G, 3 D and 7 F to equal 48.

Thanks a lot for the write-up. Very much appreciated.
I feel a bit guilty about derailing the Zadorov thread , though.

I hope they just sign 4 D (Clark, Elliott, Hejda, X) and 6 F (Hishon, Hamilton, Rantanen, Grigo, Agozzino + X ) instead. Would solve the problem and we should be fine as long as we avoid those multiple season ending injuries that have plagued us over the last couple of years.


I absolutely agree with you RL. It looks like they have absolutely changed their general approach so far this offseason. Probably a mix of self-evaluation after the disappointing season, Pracey not running the draft anymore and maybe most importantly McFarland (along with Sherman getting promoted. What ever that means).

I think they have changed the whole complexion of our front office and so far I really like it.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

At this point, I'm not sure what we should believe we can "assume" from the front office. We didn't believe they'd draft a Euro in the 1st round, and they did. We didn't believe they'd draft a Russian, they drafted two!

Any preconceived notions about the Avs front office tendencies, it's reasonable to proceed with caution because so far Sakic and Roy are showing to not be that predictable.

Yup, what they've shown so far this off-season has been a major eye opener for me. definitely have a new found faith in Roykic after having very little.

 

[Avsboy]

I'm going to toot my own horn here, but I believed that there was a new focus on European players and that Roy and Sakic have made few, if any, bad moves. I'm constantly defending them. Obviously this offseason has gone phenomenally, but losing Stastny for nothing, the Iggy signing, the Pap trade, the Stuart trade, the Holden extension...I've been a fan of all these moves. The only indefensible actions were the Berra trade and the insistence on Cliche/Guenin playing in important situations.

I'm not assuming anything about what they will do, but this offseason has only confirmed my feelings about Roykic - they know what they're doing.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Oh sure, there's a lot of new attitudes. I'm just pointing out the math. Like I said, who gets a QO will fill in some blanks there at least. Maybe they'll surprise us there.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Here's a good thread about Zadorov:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1914053

I personally did not want to give him up because of his unique skill set and our shortage of LHD . That being said, if RoR is signed, and we can get a top pairing LD then I'll love the trade.

Zadorov has a high ceiling. That of a top pairing defenseman who can intimidate the opposition. He has a nice and accurate slap shot, good skating, and is a physical beast. He needs A LOT of work defensively. I've said it many times in the past, but he looks like a chicken with its head cut off in the defensive zone. He's young, though, so time will tell if he ever becomes solid defensively. I've actually been supporter of sending him to the AHL for a season to round out his game. He's still very raw, and does come with some personal baggage (work ethic problems and violates team rules), but he's young and should break out of that funk as he matures.

Ceiling: Top pairing defenseman who can score and intimidate the opposition. A poor man's Chris Pronger .

Floor: Hard to say, honestly. If his defensive game doesn't improve then he'll be a HUGE liability on the ice. He's not a guaranteed top-4 defenseman in the NHL, but i don't think with his unique skill set that he'll ever be a bust.


In short...he's a high risk/high reward prospect.

 

[RockLobster]

Oh sure, there's a lot of new attitudes. I'm just pointing out the math. Like I said, who gets a QO will fill in some blanks there at least. Maybe they'll surprise us there.

I think TMV did a rough estimate over the weekend, and he came to the number 45 (depending on who gets qualified).

Plenty of room to maneuver and add what we'd like to see.

 

[21]

Look who he crashes

A defenseman who loves hitting, he is looking like a young Kronwall, love it. :-D

 

[cgf]

Zadorov is a top 4 D already. Not a phenomenal one, but since he has top 2 potential he has spurts of greatness. I'll take those spurts even though there will be some growing pains at the beginning.

The problem isn't that he couldn't play top 4 right now, he very well could rise to the occasion, it's that playing him top 4 right off the bat could squander a good deal of his potential. Let him handle the puck for his pairing and polish his defense for a month or two with a proper team and coaching staff around him before he gets put next to Barrie or EJ who will dominate the puck.

I'm in completely agreement that our ideal lineup sees a defensive of:
UFA - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Zadorov - Stuart
(Holden/Redmond)

He'll work his way up by the new year and create a spot for Siemens or Bigras to jump into. So why can't we just be patient for a little bit, and ensure that this potential Rob Blake doesn't end up just a potential Brad Stuart?

 

[Avsboy]

So why can't we just be patient for a little bit, and ensure that this potential Rob Blake doesn't end up just a potential Brad Stuart?

Because we'll still have two huge holes on LHD if Zadorov is not given one of the spots.

I also don't get this development being stalled business. He won't learn anything next to Stuart. In fact, if you want to develop him more, send him to the Rampage. If you want him to reach his potential, start him out in the Top 4 D, where he will watch some great players do what they do and emulate them. Watch EJ smash people and make crisp passes up the ice. Watch Barrie dance around. But don't watch Stuart, or get used to Stuart, chipping the puck up the ice and constantly getting out of position. It would not be good for him, and it would even potentially hurt his confidence to have to cover for Stuart's inept D and non-existant passing and offense.

I know Roy. There is zero chance a man like Roy plays him on the bottom pairing next to Stuart. This is a man who is the definition of the word "large balls." He will play Zadorov in the top 4. Sure, it's a tad risky considering the higher competition, but it offers a higher reward. Roy is a gambling man.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think what's most important is knowing that every little mistake doesn't get you benched, building that confidence because the team has confidence in him. How EJ and Barrie were able to flourish because it was finally ok to play their game. Not going in and out of the lineup. Those are the things that I believe will be huge for him. Like I said, if he has to start slow or on the third pair I'm not going to argue against it but his slot won't be taken by someone expected to play above him. We'll see what happens though, it's clear everyone has differing visions for this.

 

[cgf]

Because we'll still have two huge holes on LHD if Zadorov is not given one of the spots.

I also don't get this development being stalled business. He won't learn anything next to Stuart. In fact, if you want to develop him more, send him to the Rampage. If you want him to reach his potential, start him out in the Top 4 D, where he will watch some great players do what they do and emulate them. Watch EJ smash people and make crisp passes up the ice. Watch Barrie dance around. But don't watch Stuart, or get used to Stuart, chipping the puck up the ice and constantly getting out of position. It would not be good for him, and it would even potentially hurt his confidence to have to cover for Stuart's inept D and non-existant passing and offense.

I know Roy. There is zero chance a man like Roy plays him on the bottom pairing next to Stuart. This is a man who is the definition of the word "large balls." He will play Zadorov in the top 4. Sure, it's a tad risky considering the higher competition, but it offers a higher reward. Roy is a gambling man.

We have to sign an EJ partner either way and bringing Hejda back for a few months will cost us nothing. So whether we start Zads with Barrie or with Stuart doesn't significantly change our needs in UFA, it just informs us on whether Hejda will get one more season or not.

Roy has big balls, but Roy also understands how to develop talent, that's why Barrie had to work his way up, even having to go back down to the A for a bit. Zads needs some more development in the NHL before he's ready to play in a top 4 role with EJ or Barrie and still make good on all of his upside. Roy won't waste that because some fans are impatient or because he was the centerpiece of the ROR trade.

And Zads doesn't need to watch other guys make decisions with the puck. He needs to make his own decisions with the puck against NHLers and learn from the mistakes he makes while doing so. That's what he won't learn playing next to EJ and Barrie and that's the potential that we could lose out on by being impatient. That's what I mean when I say turning a potential Rob Blake into a potential Brad Stuart. Zads could be an annual threat to score 15+ goals next to barrie on top of his intimidation, but if we don't let him work on that part of the game and just tell him to play the role Hejda does for EJ or Barrie we won't ever see that side of him that makes him such a unique talent.

Plus you're just going to ignore the part where Stuart is actually good at disrupting the cycle, something Zads struggles with mightily because he doesn't understand yet how to read and anticipate NHLers on the cycle and so often gets caught chasing. This is something Zads absolutely can not learn from Barrie, and even EJ doesn't do it as violently and with as much nastiness as stuart. And that Stuart is just a lot better in his own zone than Zads atm because he knows where to be and where the puck is going. So I have to ask myself why I even bother bringing it up again? Since this basic point you seem so committed to ignoring.

 

[Alex Jones]

Zadorov is actually a lot like a young Brad Stuart. Not that he will turn out like him, but he might if we blow his development.

 

[Avsboy]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, although I will respond to each point you make because frankly I enjoy these forum debates.

We have to sign an EJ partner either way and bringing Hejda back for a few months will cost us nothing. So whether we start Zads with Barrie or with Stuart doesn't significantly change our needs in UFA, it just informs us on whether Hejda will get one more season or not.

Hejda is an ineffective top 4 player. I don't think any top 4 player on the market will come cheap or short term, and I'm incredibly uncomfortable handing out TWO top 4 contracts. I'd rather sign Sekera and a top 9 forward, and even that I think is overspending. (I'm in the just-sign-Sekera camp). So basically, if Zads does not play in the top 4, we HAVE to sign two relatively expensive top 4 players. Now I would understand going this route if it was absolutely necessary for Zadorov's development, but...

And Zads doesn't need to watch other guys make decisions with the puck. He needs to make his own decisions with the puck against NHLers and learn from the mistakes he makes while doing so. That's what he won't learn playing next to EJ and Barrie and that's the potential that we could lose out on by being impatient. That's what I mean when I say turning a potential Rob Blake into a potential Brad Stuart. Zads could be an annual threat to score 15+ goals next to barrie on top of his intimidation, but if we don't let him work on that part of the game and just tell him to play the role Hejda does for EJ or Barrie we won't ever see that side of him that makes him such a unique talent.

I don't think that playing with top players will make Zadorov more dependent and less of a top d-man, which you seem to be implying here. Barrie and EJ both have weaknesses ... in fact, their strengths are the other's weaknesses. Zadorov will mold his game a bit depending on who he plays with, but for the most part his effectiveness is determined by his physical gifts and experience, the latter of which will come with time regardless of whether he plays with Stuart or Barrie.

As for Stuart disrupting the cycle, he does do this, but he still makes enough mistakes that it would cause Zadorov to have to go out of the way to correct them. And by the logic of the above paragraph, according to you Zadorov would not learn to disrupt the cycle because Stuart would be doing it for him.

To me, the best way to teach Zadorov is to give him someone who adequately compliments his style pf play. Let him be Keith's Hjalmarsson, Subban's Markov/Petry, etc... Zadorov will never match Barrie offensively, but he can develop his defensive game and his nasty game while still contributing offensively.

As for what Roy will do, he won't let the RoR centrepiece play 15 minutes a night next to Brad Stuart.

 

[cgf]

Hejda is an ineffective top 4 player. I don't think any top 4 player on the market will come cheap or short term, and I'm incredibly uncomfortable handing out TWO top 4 contracts. I'd rather sign Sekera and a top 9 forward, and even that I think is overspending. (I'm in the just-sign-Sekera camp). So basically, if Zads does not play in the top 4, we HAVE to sign two relatively expensive top 4 players. Now I would understand going this route if it was absolutely necessary for Zadorov's development, but...

Hejda is fine next to Barrie for a few months if we get EJ a proper partner to give us a real 25+ minute a night first pairing and have a good, tough, Zads-Stuart third pairing behind them. Hejda would get passed by Zadorov before the season wore him down and made him ineffective, while buying us that little while that lets us ease Zadorov in without one of those bad UFA contracts that I also fear. Hejda-Barrie won't be an elite second pairing unless Barrie picks up exactly where he left off, but it can be very good for ~half a seoson assuming Barrie doesn't play like ass.

I don't think that playing with top players will make Zadorov more dependent and less of a top d-man, which you seem to be implying here. Barrie and EJ both have weaknesses ... in fact, their strengths are the other's weaknesses. Zadorov will mold his game a bit depending on who he plays with, but for the most part his effectiveness is determined by his physical gifts and experience, the latter of which will come with time regardless of whether he plays with Stuart or Barrie.

As for Stuart disrupting the cycle, he does do this, but he still makes enough mistakes that it would cause Zadorov to have to go out of the way to correct them. And by the logic of the above paragraph, according to you Zadorov would not learn to disrupt the cycle because Stuart would be doing it for him.

Firstly; the big difference is that playing next to Stuart, Zads will still have to go out and disrupt the cycle, he'll just get to see how an old slow guy manages to do it so much better than he does first hand, while hopefully developing a relationship with Stuart that gets Stuart to want to impart his knowledge of when to do what upon the young mountain of potential we got in this trade...whereas playing next to Barrie, Zads is never going to be the one carrying the puck up ice that the forecheckers are focused on. So it's not really the same impact on his responsibility in that area of his game.

But even if it were; learning to create with the puck and learning to defend against the puck as a unit are two totally different types of thinking. You learn them differently. Watching someone else create while you just dump it out or hand it to that creative is never going to teach you to create as well as going out and making your own mistakes while trying to create will. Learning how to read a forward line and move to intercept it at the "right" time/place is a much more systemic thing that you can learn a lot about from watching and asking why an expert made the decision he did/what it was he saw that lead him to do so then.

To me, the best way to teach Zadorov is to give him someone who adequately compliments his style pf play. Let him be Keith's Hjalmarsson, Subban's Markov/Petry, etc... Zadorov will never match Barrie offensively, but he can develop his defensive game and his nasty game while still contributing offensively.

And here you are putting a cap on him that is much lower than his real ceiling is. He can be so much more than just the Markov to Barrie or EJ's Subban. His shot is elite, and he has a nack for getting it on net. His break out passes can be beautiful when he gets them right, and the kid has the skills and skating to be able to carry the puck up the ice like EJ-in-freight-train-mode. We should not limit that ceiling prematurely, because if he hits his upside he could be better than EJ and turn his pairing with Barrie into our top unit.

As for what Roy will do, he won't let the RoR centrepiece play 15 minutes a night next to Brad Stuart.

Luckily I don't think Roy thinks this way, and instead will do what's best for the team; not what's best for HF's opinion on how we did in the trade.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We dont have to fill the #1LHD and #2LHD right away.


This team made playoffs just 2 seasons ago with basically no Top 4 LHD as well(Hejda wasn't playing like one down the stretch or playoffs).


We're also not trying to win the cup next year either. Its much more important that we take our time with Zadorov and let him truly develop into a Top 2 guy in 3 years from now rather than to rush him into the Top 4 this season, but then not have him develop any further anymore and only have a #4 from him in 3 years.


If we add Sekera or Erhoff, our Defense will be significantly better next year anyway. That pairing of UFA/EJ will be able to eat 25+ minutes a night anyway. Throw Holden into the Top 4 with Barrie starting off, and let Zadorov develop properly with a guy like Stuart who can really teach him the Defensive side of the game, but also allow Zads the opportunity to play an aggressive Offensive game and learn the timing of when to and when not to pinch, etc.


Our Defense next year should definitely start off at least as:


UFA - EJ
Holden - Barrie
Zadorov* - Stuart
Guenin - Redmond


I wouldn't even gurantee Zads this spot yet. If Bigras or Siemens come into camp and outperform him, give the spot to them instead. It would only benefit Zadorov more to get a season in the AHL playing Top minutes.



Regardless, between Zads, Bigras, Siemens, and Meloche we have ourselves a very solid young DCoreo now. With wildcards like Geertson, Wood, and Butcher as well.

 

[Avsboy]

We're not even that different in opinion. If Zadorov completely fails in a top 4 role, demote him. The only difference is that he should be tried out at that position first, in my opinion. I don't see the harm in this. Roy would demote him in no time if he costs us, ala Stuart last year.

 

[RockLobster]

We're not even that different in opinion. If Zadorov completely fails in a top 4 role, demote him. The only difference is that he should be tried out at that position first, in my opinion. I don't see the harm in this. Roy would demote him in no time if he costs us, ala Stuart last year.

I think there's a difference between a 20 year old, still learning the game and a 34 year old who has been around. The proper thing is to make sure his development is going right, if that ultimately means he starts the season on the 3rd pairing, while getting some PP time, then that's fine. Making sure we don't stunt him is the right course of action.

 

[Avsboy]

Wasn't he top-pairing in Buffalo? I know that's not saying much, but his stats relative to his team including +/-, points and corsi were not bad at all. And here I'm suggesting he play second pairing.

To me you have to weigh the impact of playing second pairing on his development VS. the good of the team (including cap ramifications from not having to sign another top defenseman). I don't believe playing with Barrie is all too harmful to him, while I think he can bring better things to the team playing along with Barrie's up tempo style. And he would save cap space by playing in a top 4 role. If he does harm the team, though, like I said, demote him, since that would harm the team less and, according to you guys anyway, improve his development.

But one thing I am unequivocally against is signing two top 4 D after making this trade. I'd also rather not bring back Hejda. Give Holden or Stuart the top 4 spot next to Barrie . . . . . . .

 

[RockLobster]

Holden is TERRIBLE. I'd hope the plan is one of the Top UFA Defensemen available, and then Hejda. Hejda can start with Barrie, and them swap with Zadorov at some point through the year.

Nick Holden doesn't have adequate hockey sense. He's just not very good. A 38 year old Hejda is a better option on the 2nd pairing than Nick Holden.