Proposal: Nick Spaling to SJS

[WVP]

One thing people need to keep in mind when thinking about Spaling is the situation at the time he was procured. At the time of the Neal/Horny trade, our bottom six was still in shambles with a lot of UFAs leaving, Sutter being an RFA. Our bottom six was:

Pyatt-Sutter-Kobasew
Glass-Vitale-Adams

4 were UFAs not likely to return. 1 was a RFA that the previous GM tried to trade openly. 1 was Craig Adams...

The bottom 6 being such a mess was an obvious issue that needed fixing. Those of us that really watched last year could argue that throughout most of the season the bottom 6 was a bigger issue than the Top 6. JR needed to start righting that ship right away. Both GMs knew that Neal held more value than Hornqvist. JR knew he needed bottom 6 help and Spaling was available. He would have been stupid not to have snagged him. A pick wouldn't have helped. We needed bodies right then. We had no idea what the FA market was going to be like. We hadn't resigned Goc yet, Comeau was a target but no guarantee, and I'm not sure Downie was even on the radar. Not to mention that we were in the middle of RFA talks with Sutter who may have been miffed at trying to be traded for Kesler so vigorously. Spaling could have also played 3C. At the time, it was really the perfect toss in to the Neal/Horn trade and I 100% understand why it was a solid move.

Now that we have Goc, Comeau, Downie, a resigned Sutter, and didn't waive Adams...we can start to question the move in hindsight only. Has he been the lights out Top 6 wing we've been missing? No, of course that. That's not his role. Has he been actively hurting the team like Gladams did? No, of course that.

Once healthy, he's a great 4th line depth guy. Probably one of the better 4th line players in the league. We should be used to 3rd/4th line guys filling in spots in the top 6 by now. We've seen it enough. We know that management doesn't view that as permanent. We know we have injuries right now...why are we really concerned with an extra bottom 6 wing, fill in 3C, 4C?

Yep. Downie, Goc, Spaling, Comeau - all have played a big role in upgrading the bottom 6. Rutherford definitely did well there.

 

[ColePens]

I mean, that's kind of what he is. He can play anywhere and not hurt you. I still say he'll be fine when in the bottom six.

I think we severely underrate how few forwards we have that are consistent in their own end. Adams would not still be on this team if that weren't the case. Even though he can be easily replaced.

That's definitely not true. They said he could spot in the top 6 and he's nowhere near that good. Dupuis is a guy I look at that can literally player anywhere in the lineup as a forward. Spaling isn't half as good as Dupers in that role.

For as much as Dupers gets crapped on around here because he was asked to do way more than his ability, he still outplayed Spaling by a million miles. Any time Spaling went to that top 6 transition role for a few games, the line really hurt.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That's definitely not true. They said he could spot in the top 6 and he's nowhere near that good. Dupuis is a guy I look at that can literally player anywhere in the lineup as a forward. Spaling isn't half as good as Dupers in that role.

For as much as Dupers gets crapped on around here because he was asked to do way more than his ability, he still outplayed Spaling by a million miles. Any time Spaling went to that top 6 transition role for a few games, the line really hurt.

Well to be fair to Spaling, Dupuis only found that chemistry with Crosby. He was like kryptonite with Malkin.

Spaling looked pretty damn good when that third line was going early in the year.

I just believe every team needs a couple of guys like Spaling that take care of their end first and play a safe, smart game.

I guess I can see why people are disappointed in him if the org was pimping him as a top six tweener, but I never really bought that idea personally.

 

[Vujtek]

Well to be fair to Spaling, Dupuis only found that chemistry with Crosby. He was like kryptonite with Malkin.

And it's not like Dupuis found that chemistry with Crosby the first time they stepped on the ice together. It took time and when they got used to playing with each other, Dupuis' game took off to another level.

Spaling has been fine and serves a place in this team. He brings that accountability to the team. He plays the game right way. Smart player and takes care of his defensive responsibilities. Versatile. To me he's been pretty much exactly as advertised. He's now going to wow you with his skills but that wasn't expected. He's a very good 3rd liner that can move up and down in the lineup without hurting the team. If he's on the 4th line with a healthy lineup come playoff time, it's a testament to a good depth. The kind of good, versatile depth player that has been missing some time from this team.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we could somehow convince Doug Wilson to take Spaling for John Scott and a 2nd round pick in 2015, I would run naked through the neighborhood in total glee!

 

[jmelm]

If Spaling made $1 million less he'd be pretty popular here, but he doesn't and he's making a bit more than you'd want for the hockey equivalent of vanilla pudding.

I don't care for all of the hate, though. Hate the contract if you will, but he's not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination.

I still hope he's moved in the off-season for a pick, though...and as jmelm just said I don't see him being retained when he's heading into UFA status, so why not get something for him before the final season of his contract? (after the season, mind you, the only way Spaling is dealt this season is if it's for an upgrade).

.... and whether the quality he has is needed relative to other options/addresses our weaknesses.

Spaling is a good bottom 6'er no doubt. Its just that our roster has many players that you can say this about, most of whom are cheaper than Spaling.
To take my point the furthest, if we were to say that Spaling's place SHOULD be 4th line LW on our team, the question is if he provides much more in that particular role than Farnham? Farnham of course is not the hockey player Spaling is, but he does provide qualities no one else do on the team, which increases the value of said qualities, and does so at 1.5 million less of a cap-hit. For someone more like Spaling, look at Rust.

If we wanted to say that Spaling should be a 3rd line RW, you can ask if he does more for us than Downie or Comeau (answer is no).

Spaling's value is that you don't have to box him in for one position, as he can competently play OK in many positions. I just think we have enough options among less versatile players that this versatility of Spaling's appeal to me less, especially because he is never a GOOD solution on the top6. Guys like Comeau and Downie seemingly could be (in the right situations) because they have some peak qualities (Comeau is an avid hitter with a good shot, Downie is a pest/agitator/first responder with pretty decent offesnive skills) that make it possible for them to compliment our stars.

Spaling has no stand out qualities.
I suppose I would rather a less refined overall player, who leaves a real mark in an area of need.

Perfectly said.


For those who've heard Craig Button talk about this, Spaling is the very definition of a "zero sum player".

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Perfectly said.


For those who've heard Craig Button talk about this, Spaling is the very definition of a "zero sum player".

Which is why I would have expected us to simply QO the guy for the next two years. I guess they just wanted to avoid arbitration, because his QO would have been about 1.2, and I would have expected his arbitration value to about 1.5-1.8.

That's one beef I have with the current regime, but I can't get overly upset about it, as no one ever likes to go to arbitration (and no cases reached it this year, if memory serves).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And it's not like Dupuis found that chemistry with Crosby the first time they stepped on the ice together. It took time and when they got used to playing with each other, Dupuis' game took off to another level.

Spaling has been fine and serves a place in this team. He brings that accountability to the team. He plays the game right way. Smart player and takes care of his defensive responsibilities. Versatile. To me he's been pretty much exactly as advertised. He's now going to wow you with his skills but that wasn't expected. He's a very good 3rd liner that can move up and down in the lineup without hurting the team. If he's on the 4th line with a healthy lineup come playoff time, it's a testament to a good depth. The kind of good, versatile depth player that has been missing some time from this team.

If it's game 7 of the cup with a minute left to play, protecting a one goal lead, I want Spaling out there protecting that lead.

Not Downie. Not Comeau. Nor Hornqvist. Of all the fwds, including Goc, Spaling is the guy I trust the most to protect the lead. I'd want Sutter and Spaling on the ice in that situation. Apply that scenario to any other playoff game and that's the kind of value Spaling has on a team with cup aspirations.

If he was being used in a shutdown role like he should be, his value would be much more evident. MJ flat out said he isn't a top six guy, so why he was being played there over BB, who knows.

 

[JTG]

Spaling sort of falls in that grey area that teams have. He's a good utility guy who can play anywhere, he doesn't do anything that stands out, but he's sort of that meat and potatoes guy that every team needs. His problem here is that he hasn't found a spot in the lineup. He will be on 4 different lines throughout the course of the game, and he never really sticks.

 

[eXile59]

I would rather have Spaling than a pick. A pick does nothing for us until way down the road. Spaling is at least a serviceable third liner.

 

[mpp9]

That's definitely not true. They said he could spot in the top 6 and he's nowhere near that good. Dupuis is a guy I look at that can literally player anywhere in the lineup as a forward. Spaling isn't half as good as Dupers in that role.

For as much as Dupers gets crapped on around here because he was asked to do way more than his ability, he still outplayed Spaling by a million miles. Any time Spaling went to that top 6 transition role for a few games, the line really hurt.

Dupuis was garbage if he wasnt playing with Sid.

I dont care what management said. I view him as Goc's LW when we're healthy, and like Jiggy said, hes someone you rely on.

The Philly series wasnt all on DB. We had/have alot of guys who arent committed defensively and take dumb penalties.

If you want to build a Cup winner, you have to have different players. Cap hit aside.

 

[The Old Master]

I would rather have Spaling than a pick. A pick does nothing for us until way down the road. Spaling is at least a serviceable third liner.

third liners we have.....by the time trade deadline is over we will need to restock badly. or I should say I hope we have to restock badly.

 

[eXile59]

third liners we have.....by the time trade deadline is over we will need to restock badly. or I should say I hope we have to restock badly.

3rd liner>Pick

 

[Jag68Sid87]

3rd liner>Pick

For a team with no first rounder in '15, no third rounder in '15 and only one legit top-six winger prospect, I have to respectfully disagree here.

Plus, we get valuable cap space (and a mofo enforcer in my scenario, which I know pleases you ).

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Dupuis was garbage if he wasnt playing with Sid.

I dont care what management said. I view him as Goc's LW when we're healthy, and like Jiggy said, hes someone you rely on.

The Philly series wasnt all on DB. We had/have alot of guys who arent committed defensively and take dumb penalties.

If you want to build a Cup winner, you have to have different players. Cap hit aside.

In 2011-12, when Crosby only played 22 games, Dupuis was 4th in 5v5 points with 51. That is 4th in the entire NHL. Something tells me that garbage players wouldn't put up anywhere near those totals.

Dupuis has some flaws as a player, but he still remains a very effective one.

 

[jmelm]

I would rather have Spaling than a pick. A pick does nothing for us until way down the road. Spaling is at least a serviceable third liner.

I want to keep Spaling in the line up this season if we don't trade for another forward, because of the depth & versatility he provides. But as soon as this season is over, I want to trade him; and if he helps us bring in a better forward by trade this season (if packaged with a Martin, Dumo, etc.), then he can go.


Next year, in addition to wanting to re-sign Downie & Comeau, and possibly even having Dupuis back, we're going to have Sundqvist, Rust, Megna, Uher and possibly KK pushing to make the team. We don't need Spaling, but we do need his cap space, and getting a decent pick for him would be a nice (and needed) bonus.

 

[Shady Machine]

If we could somehow convince Doug Wilson to take Spaling for John Scott and a 2nd round pick in 2015, I would run naked through the neighborhood in total glee!

I guess it doesn't take much to get your clothes off.

 

[mpp9]

In 2011-12, when Crosby only played 22 games, Dupuis was 4th in 5v5 points with 51. That is 4th in the entire NHL. Something tells me that garbage players wouldn't put up anywhere near those totals.

Dupuis has some flaws as a player, but he still remains a very effective one.

And that would be relevant if we were comparing Dupuis to Spaling 3 years ago.

Dupuis was falling off last season. And definitely was this year. Was taken off Sid's line both seasons and sucked out loud with Malkin.

Dupuis is a better player, but hes also making quite a bit more. He was being paid to be a top 6 forward here. Spaling is not.

 

[Shady Machine]

In 2011-12, when Crosby only played 22 games, Dupuis was 4th in 5v5 points with 51. That is 4th in the entire NHL. Something tells me that garbage players wouldn't put up anywhere near those totals.

Dupuis has some flaws as a player, but he still remains a very effective one.

I assume he meant garbage in the top 6 if he wasn't with Sid. It would have been more clear if he said he sucked with Malkin.

 

[eXile59]

For a team with no first rounder in '15, no third rounder in '15 and only one legit top-six winger prospect, I have to respectfully disagree here.

Plus, we get valuable cap space (and a mofo enforcer in my scenario, which I know pleases you ).

Ah Enforcers & Cap space. The true makings of a champion.

We'll be lucky if that 2nd round pick turns into a decent player 4 years from being drafted. Most likely just end up being a player like Spaling.

 

[billybudd]

Dupuis wasn't great last season, but even playing less than great, he was comfortably better than every other player who was tried at 1RW (Stempniak, Gibbons, Gladams, Bennett, Vitale), other than Neal, who performed about the same, minute to minute.

His game this season was nothing anyone should have any reason to complain about. When he was injured, he was still top 30 in the NHL in 5 on 5 points. He's 10th in goals per minute. That's more than Stamkos, Patches and about 50% more than Neal, to give an idea of how much he was doing for us in those 16 games.

He put up these numbers despite showing no chemistry with Malkin. And he's not even a scorer, so this isn't the sum of his contributions. Even PDO, too, so there's no real reason to think he was just getting lucky.

 

[eXile59]

Why are we arguing about Dupuis again? Guy is done.

 

[roquay]

I want to keep Spaling in the line up this season if we don't trade for another forward, because of the depth & versatility he provides. But as soon as this season is over, I want to trade him; and if he helps us bring in a better forward by trade this season (if packaged with a Martin, Dumo, etc.), then he can go.


Next year, in addition to wanting to re-sign Downie & Comeau, and possibly even having Dupuis back, we're going to have Sundqvist, Rust, Megna, Uher and possibly KK pushing to make the team. We don't need Spaling, but we do need his cap space, and getting a decent pick for him would be a nice (and needed) bonus.

I doubt we resign Comeau he is going to get a good little payday. On the Arizona board they were talking about offering him $3 mil AAV over 3 years .

 

[Human]

If it's game 7 of the cup with a minute left to play, protecting a one goal lead, I want Spaling out there protecting that lead.

Not Downie. Not Comeau. Nor Hornqvist. Of all the fwds, including Goc, Spaling is the guy I trust the most to protect the lead. I'd want Sutter and Spaling on the ice in that situation. Apply that scenario to any other playoff game and that's the kind of value Spaling has on a team with cup aspirations.

If he was being used in a shutdown role like he should be, his value would be much more evident. MJ flat out said he isn't a top six guy, so why he was being played there over BB, who knows.

I laughed at this, 'cause I imagine they'll have Adams on the ice in that situation. and Scuderi.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I guess it doesn't take much to get your clothes off.

Shut up, Shady!

Why are we arguing about Dupuis again? Guy is done.

We can hope anyway.