Nick Seeler

[LegionOfDoom91]

He's been pretty good in a 3rd pairing, limited role this year. Hasn't been great at exits, but been pretty decent at entry defense, particularly for a 3rd pairing guy.

Certain GMs will like him because he's a meat and potatoes type guy. Will stick up for his teammates, tough customer type guy. I imagine he'll also get the moniker of good teammate.

He's probably not a bad trade target for team, because they can get him cheap and he's not likely to hurt the team.

I don’t deny he’s been good defensively in a third pair role this season (the numbers back it up). But he’s 29 & will be 30 going into next season. Prior to this year he was a AAAA player essentially. So that’s not really something I want to bet on continuing going forward especially when anybody at the bottom of lineup is replacement caliber by nature regardless of quality. I don’t care if the Flyers haven’t had good depth defensemen before since a good chunk of that is self inflected. Seeler isn’t some 24-25 year old in the mist of his peak where I could buy the argument for keeping him nor are the Flyers contending for anything noteworthy this or not year. So the play should be to sell high.

 

[Rebels57]

Death by papercuts.... so many have added up to cause this nightmare.

Not even papercuts really - he has sufficiently carved the Flyers franchise into mince meat, one slash of a Hattori Hanzo sword at a time.

 

[flyersnorth]

I don’t deny he’s been good defensively in a third pair role this season (the numbers back it up). But he’s 29 & will be 30 going into next season. Prior to this year he was a AAAA player essentially. So that’s not really something I want to bet on continuing going forward especially when anybody at the bottom of lineup is replacement caliber by nature regardless of quality. I don’t care if the Flyers haven’t had good depth defensemen before since a good chunk of that is self inflected. Seeler isn’t some 24-25 year old in the mist of his peak where I could buy the argument for keeping him nor are the Flyers contending for anything noteworthy this or not year. So the play should be to sell high.

When's the last time the Flyers sold high? Carter and Richards?

It was a ballsy move and I hated it at the time. But in the end, it was probably the right play.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

When's the last time the Flyers sold high? Carter and Richards?

It was a ballsy move and I hated it at the time. But in the end, it was probably the right play.

Brayden Schenn.

I mean just look at the DeAngelo trade. Carolina traded him when his stock was the highest as they knew they had a volatile stock. The only way they were bringing him back was on their terms as they weren’t afraid of finding a replacement. They sold high on DeAngelo & bought Burns for cheap to replace him.

Carolina has a moneyball like philosophy where the Flyers are the opposite. They don’t box themselves into having to sign/trade players for high salary/assets because they know they can replace them for cheaper. They also don’t have the mentality where it has to a player for player replacement. They didn’t replace Hamilton all in one shot but they legitimately replaced him through the aggregate with multiple players.

 

[VladDrag]

I don’t deny he’s been good defensively in a third pair role this season (the numbers back it up). But he’s 29 & will be 30 going into next season. Prior to this year he was a AAAA player essentially. So that’s not really something I want to bet on continuing going forward especially when anybody at the bottom of lineup is replacement caliber by nature regardless of quality. I don’t care if the Flyers haven’t had good depth defensemen before since a good chunk of that is self inflected. Seeler isn’t some 24-25 year old in the mist of his peak where I could buy the argument for keeping him nor are the Flyers contending for anything noteworthy this or not year. So the play should be to sell high.

100%. I couldn't agree more.

He's been perfectly adequate, hasn't been an issue this year, isn't likely to continue in the coming seasons, and even if it does, it's not going to hurt the Flyers long term. It makes too much sense to trade Nick Seeler, regardless of what the return is, 4th or 5th rounder I don't care. That would be great asset management.

By playing him every game, you turned him into something other teams want. Capitalize on it.

 

[Rebels57]

Brayden Schenn.

I mean just look at the DeAngelo trade. Carolina traded him when his stock was the highest as they knew they had a volatile stock. The only way they were bringing him back was on their terms as they weren’t afraid of finding a replacement. They sold high on DeAngelo & bought Burns for cheap to replace him.

Carolina has a moneyball like philosophy where the Flyers are the opposite. They don’t box themselves into having to sign/trade players for high salary/assets because they know they can replace them for cheaper. They also don’t have the mentality where it has to a player for player replacement. They didn’t replace Hamilton all in one shot but they legitimately replaced him through the aggregate with multiple players.

Exactly why my first move as Flyers GM would be to give Tulsky a blank check.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Exactly why my first move as Flyers GM would be to give Tulsky a blank check.

He’s too modern for them.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

If Seeler were on any other team right now, people would be posting his fancy metrics, minimal cap hit, & using him as an example of “winning on the margins.”

 

[ponder719]

If Seeler were on any other team right now, people would be posting his fancy metrics, minimal cap hit, & using him as an example of “winning on the margins.”

You can't win on the margins if you're getting caved in everywhere else.

 

[VladDrag]

If Seeler were on any other team right now, people would be posting his fancy metrics, minimal cap hit, & using him as an example of “winning on the margins.”

Dude, that's exactly what I just said about him. The Flyers turned him into an asset that other teams are now valuing. This wasn't the case last year. That's half the battle. The slam dunk would be to trade him when his value is absolute highest.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Why would a bottom 10 team want to trade for a 29 year old depth defensemen?

 

[Magua]

Why would a bottom 10 team want to trade for a 29 year old depth defensemen?

8 points out.

 

[Curufinwe]

8 points and 6 teams out.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

They can’t trade Seeler because then they would probably have to play Zamula and we can’t have that can we.

 

[Magua]

It’s not exactly a good sign for the “no one is untouchable” idea a perma-mediocre roster should have, with no elite talent or playoff hopes, when 30 year old career 6/7 defenseman are borderline untouchable short of overpays.

Of course if you’re too afraid to make that barely consequential move, you’re going to be too chicken shit to make a Provorov decision. (Exception: Gostisbehere because French Alan said so.)

 

[Beef Invictus]

It’s not exactly a good sign for the “no one is untouchable” idea a perma-mediocre roster should have when 30 year old career 6/7 defenseman are borderline untouchable. Of course if you’re too afraid to make that barely consequential move, you’re going to be too chicken shit to make a Provorov decision.

They probably deem Seeler too vital to their dream culture.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It’s not exactly a good sign for the “no one is untouchable” idea a perma-mediocre roster should have when 30 year old career 6/7 defenseman are borderline untouchable. Of course if you’re too afraid to make that barely consequential move, you’re going to be too chicken shit to make a Provorov decision. (Exception: Gostisbehere because French Alan said so.)

Say there are 6 teams interested in him. That would force Chuck to think of which offer to take. That’s too hard. Can’t put to much stress on Chuck now can we.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

When's the last time the Flyers sold high? Carter and Richards?

It was a ballsy move and I hated it at the time. But in the end, it was probably the right play.

Zac Rinaldo...

 

[Hanover Fist]

Dude, that's exactly what I just said about him. The Flyers turned him into an asset that other teams are now valuing. This wasn't the case last year. That's half the battle. The slam dunk would be to trade him when his value is absolute

When I think of mistakes Fletch made over the past year, Seeler isn't one of them, IMHO.

1. Re-signing Risto
2. Trading for DeAngelo (likely because they whiffed on the other, more popular, more talented, hometown boi)

For those two borderline 3rd pairing defensemen, Chuck gladly parted with:

Shayne Gostisbehere
Robert Hagg
1st round (2021, for Risto)
2nd round (2024, for DeAngelo)
2nd round (2022, as a party favour for Arizona to take Ghost)
2nd round (2023, for Risto)
3rd round (2023, for TDA)
4th round (2022, for TDA)
7th (2022, as another party favour for Arizona just because)

You can't make this stuff up.

The sad irony is that this team would probably look exactly the same with Ghost and Hagg, and would be in a better position having retained and used the picks or moved them for actual valuable players.

When I think of mistakes Fletch made over the past year, Seeler isn't one of them, IMHO.

1. Re-signing Risto
2. Trading for DeAngelo (likely because they whiffed on the other, more popular, more talented, hometown boi)

For those two borderline 3rd pairing defensemen, Chuck gladly parted with:

Shayne Gostisbehere
Robert Hagg
1st round (2021, for Risto)
2nd round (2024, for DeAngelo)
2nd round (2022, as a party favour for Arizona to take Ghost)
2nd round (2023, for Risto)
3rd round (2023, for TDA)
4th round (2022, for TDA)
7th (2022, as another party favour for Arizona just because)

You can't make this stuff up.

The sad irony is that this team would probably look exactly the same with Ghost and Hagg, and would be in a better position having retained and used the picks or moved them for actual valuable players.

The horrifying part is those moves were made from a win now perspective. Can you imagine being a competent owner and giving the mandate to win now and the first player your GM signs is a borderline 3rd line goon to a NTC.

 

[freakydallas13]

Why trade a soon to be 30 year old journeyman at the peak of his career value for futures when you could keep him on your team going no where and get nothing for him?

God forbid they actually squeeze value out of Seeler and replace him with a kid who needs NHL playtime. Charles E. Fletcher can't have that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Since he's a topic today, it's worth repeating something on the most recent episode of the Evolving Hockey Podcast. Seeler looks almost like an error when you look at their xG models because ALL of his value is in xGA and then he's roughly average by their CA RAPM measurements. Then when you dig into it, the Flyers as a whole have a canyon of difference between their Corsi and Fenwick metrics.

As you would probably expect, they pointed out that this is usually due to a funky run of Shot Blocking. He has already provided that value. The past will not change. But how repeatable is it?

 

[Winston Wolf]

Damn, I thought the OP was @hatcher and was excited for a minute.

 

[VladDrag]

Since he's a topic today, it's worth repeating something on the most recent episode of the Evolving Hockey Podcast. Seeler looks almost like an error when you look at their xG models because ALL of his value is in xGA and then he's roughly average by their CA RAPM measurements. Then when you dig into it, the Flyers as a whole have a canyon of difference between their Corsi and Fenwick metrics.

As you would probably expect, they pointed out that this is usually due to a funky run of Shot Blocking. He has already provided that value. The past will not change. But how repeatable is it?

I haven’t listened to them in a few episodes, but early in the season they had a Nick Seeler and Flyer check-in for like 4 weeks.

 

[dragonoffrost]

So because Nick Seeler has a unicorn season we need to jump up and down so that Fletcher can win something? Sorry I'm not going there. I still stand that he should've been gone after last season.

 

[GKJ]

If they believe what they do about Seeler, independent of his actual abilities, he deserves to be given a chance to play in the playoffs. Same goes for some of these other foot soldiers.