NHL's projections of the NBC deal

[GKJ]

No, no, no, no no! You just don't understand the players. They believe they are the product, until you want to start talking about its' lagging popularity and its inability to sell. Then the product becomes the league and all the problems are the league's fault. This is why I am so pro-owner.

Isn't the inability to sell on the onus of the execs and people at the league office to handle. Players can go out and market themselves just fine if they ever got any exposure, but that can't happen with ****** marketing and failed business plan not to mention my cat could come up with a better TV-deal.


I can understand your other reasonings as to why you are pro-owner but to say you are pro-owner because the product is the league which has so many problems caused by the owners? Gary Bettman is more concerned with breaking the union than he is about forming a partnership with the players. I work in a union and my owner isn't reaching out to me to give me part of his cut other than the $8.50/hr I get before my taxes are taken out. The product is the league and the players together, not one way or the other. You watch hockey for what...go home and talk about the gate recepits? Please.


Excuse me while I go blow the smoke out of my ass.

 

[Street Hawk]

ABC's loses??????

How is what he writes incorrect?? I don't understand how you can argue with those numbers...it's solid numbers with proof unlike the...cough cough levitt "report." He is absolutly correct, the $300M war-chest is taking up valuable money. More proof the season was obviously intended to be completely cancelled. They had absolutly no intentions of playing, yet you all still put full blame on the PA.

Let's say those NBC projections are correct.... Then the question I would ask is how much did ABC lose on their last deal with the NHL? The NBC deal provides the NHL with a share of the profits after NBC covers the costs of airing the games. So, if 6 million dollars is all the NHL would get from NBC, how much did ABC lose by giving the NHL 125 million a year for the last 5 years?

Also, do those projections factor in the likely lockout?

I hope people aren't reading the Brooks article and thinking that the NHL choose NBC over the same offer ABC paid in the last deal. ABC wasn't going to pick up the NHL again. They have enough sports to air, now that they have the NBA in addition to college football and basketball. ESPN is all sports, so they need to air games during primetime during the weekdays, which is where the NHL would come in.

As for the warchest money, well I hope people realize that there are more costs to running and growing the NHL than just player costs. Marketing, travel, arena costs, scouts, fees to the CHL and European club teams, etc.

It is a sad thing that the league can't invest in the game and do something positive to showcase the game because they have to prepare for a long work stoppage.

 

[Luc Labelle]

He is absolutly correct, the $300M war-chest is taking up valuable money. More proof the season was obviously intended to be completely cancelled. They had absolutly no intentions of playing, yet you all still put full blame on the PA.

You say the NHL has never had any intention of having a season, when in fact it is the NHLPA. Check this article from November:

NHLPA to begin lockout pay for players

"As a result of the ongoing owners' lockout, the NHLPA executive committee has announced a player stipend plan which consists of an initial 24-month schedule and monthly payments for over 730 locked-out players," Ted Saskin, NHLPA senior director, said in a statement released to The Canadian Press.

Curious that the NHLPA set a 24 month schedule of lockout pay. Worse yet, Ted Sasking said initial 24 month schedule. In other words the NHLPA was already planning on sitting out more than 2 years instead of negotiating. The NHL has been trying to negotiate a viable system for the league for several years only to be continuously rebuffed by deadline Bob and his faithful lemmings. Why in anyone's right mind would a membership not bargain off an offer that guaranteed a linked percentage to salaries plus a share of profits.

The owners have given the NHLPA numerous systems on which a negotiated agreement could be based. The NHLPA has done absolutely no negotiating on any system proposed by the NHL. Last time I checked if an employee wants to work for an organization they have to negotiate within parameters set by that company.

 

[Buds4ever]

NHL Network is owned by the NHL

To correct those who don't know, the NHL Network is in fact an NHL owned entity (60%). TSN is a partner who owns 20% and Insight Sports also own 20%. There are big plans for the channel, but legal issues have restricted entry into the US Market (ESPN deal I believe). The intent will be to launch into the US as soon as possible now that the original deal has expired (I believe).

 

[SuperUnknown]

You my friend have to read up on this stuff. The NHL Network is own by TSN (which is partially owned by ESPN). Unlike NFL Network and NBATV, which is owned by the league themselves.

NHL Center Ice brings in next to nothing. They need to offer streamed games on the net, then people will watch.

NHL Center Ice is still the NHL channel. So the NHL has a channel.

Also, regardless of who "owns" it, the NHL has a channel in NHL, so the Brooks article is throwing facts out of the window. Wow... good journalism.

I was lured into reading this crap, I should have known better.

As to the NBC deal, what can the NHL do? Their product is not popular, their players are overpaid, the top players get traded for a pile of crap (in other words, they have no value on the trade market). The first step in fixing this is to get a better CBA that will leave them with money to spend on marketing the game.

 

[nyrmessier011]

You say the NHL has never had any intention of having a season, when in fact it is the NHLPA. Check this article from November:

NHLPA to begin lockout pay for players
Curious that the NHLPA set a 24 month schedule of lockout pay. Worse yet, Ted Sasking said initial 24 month schedule. In other words the NHLPA was already planning on sitting out more than 2 years instead of negotiating. The NHL has been trying to negotiate a viable system for the league for several years only to be continuously rebuffed by deadline Bob and his faithful lemmings. Why in anyone's right mind would a membership not bargain off an offer that guaranteed a linked percentage to salaries plus a share of profits.

The owners have given the NHLPA numerous systems on which a negotiated agreement could be based. The NHLPA has done absolutely no negotiating on any system proposed by the NHL. Last time I checked if an employee wants to work for an organization they have to negotiate within parameters set by that company.

Everything that is said through the media is a bargaining tool...initial 24 month schedule is just another threat from one side to the other...it's all rhetoric. And I can't see how you could possibly say the PA has not negotiated. For the first time in the leagues 90 year history, players have accepted a hard salary cap!

 

[hockeytown9321]

This is part of the problem IMO. The NHL tries to market the game, while any work the NHLPA does is focused on the short-term

The only thing the NHL has ever planned ahead for is the lockout. Its always been about quick money for them.

 

[hockeytown9321]

NHL Center Ice is still the NHL channel. So the NHL has a channel.

Center Ice is much different than the NFL or NBA network. They are real networks with their own original programming. Center Ice is jsut a service that lets you watch out of town games (something the NFL and NBA also have)

 

[hockeytown9321]

The owners have given the NHLPA numerous systems on which a negotiated agreement could be based. The NHLPA has done absolutely no negotiating on any system proposed by the NHL. Last time I checked if an employee wants to work for an organization they have to negotiate within parameters set by that company.

The players have given the NHL numerous systems on which a negotiated agreement could be based. The NHL has done absolutely no negotiating on any system proposed by the NHLPA.

 

[reckoning]

who else is gonna market the league?
when the NHL comes back, the fans are gonna need some coaxing to watch this game...who better then the players?

they claim they're the "product"...well, then market the product!

Hmmm.. a few months ago in CBA negotiations a NHL lawyer told Trevor Linden that the players should have no say in how the league is run, that they were just employees similar to assembly line workers at an auto factory; a sentiment that was echoed by many pro-owners fans on this and other boards.

So the players don`t deserve any say in how the league is run, but they`re supposed to be in charge of marketing????

 

[Trizent]

NHL Network, the actual channel was supposed to be carried by Directv a couple seasons back (free with NHL CI), but for some reason it never showed up.

BTW, how much money did the NHL get from network TV in US 10 years ago? Zero. When it first did get back on Network TV, the NHL BOUGHT the time, IE paid programming.

Bettman has gotten better TV deals than any of the primates that came before him. There are many areas to bash Bettman this isn't one of them.

 

[guymez]

The players have given the NHL numerous systems on which a negotiated agreement could be based. The NHL has done absolutely no negotiating on any system proposed by the NHLPA.

Can you show a link for just one system which dosen't have a delinked inflationary componant to it? I am not trying to be sarcstic here....I would genuinely like to see one.

 

[reckoning]

Only difference is the owners dont need money... the players do.

Face it, NHL teams are a luxury to have for any owner, a leisure to call their own. Name an owner who sees the NHL has his BIGGEST cash crop.

You'll also see an owner who's out of business

So we need a lockout because the poor owners are stretched to their breaking point because the greedy players have taken all their money and can`t afford any more and all these teams are days away from bankruptcy if not for this lockout; but when it comes to lost player revenues it`s time to gloat about how rich the owners are and how the NHL is of little concern to them.

 

[txomisc]

This is just the problem, they hold the league accountable for the product, but yet call themselves the product??? The PA and the league havwe never worked together, they have always been on opposite sides, never realizing that they need each other...they are all morons, lead by Gary and Knob... During Gary and Knob's tenure, the salaries have skyrocketed and the play has gotten worse they both should be replaced in their respective positions and you would have a deal in 2 weeks.

Well after all this I have decided if the players want to call themselves the product, that is fine. Products don't get paid. That juicy steak you purchase doesnt see one red cent. So let them call themselves the product all they want.

 

[txomisc]

Isn't the inability to sell on the onus of the execs and people at the league office to handle. Players can go out and market themselves just fine if they ever got any exposure, but that can't happen with ****** marketing and failed business plan not to mention my cat could come up with a better TV-deal.


I can understand your other reasonings as to why you are pro-owner but to say you are pro-owner because the product is the league which has so many problems caused by the owners? Gary Bettman is more concerned with breaking the union than he is about forming a partnership with the players. I work in a union and my owner isn't reaching out to me to give me part of his cut other than the $8.50/hr I get before my taxes are taken out. The product is the league and the players together, not one way or the other. You watch hockey for what...go home and talk about the gate recepits? Please.


Excuse me while I go blow the smoke out of my ass.

Players are the ones who have to power to stop the boring ass impossible to martket clutching and grabbing crap that goes on in the NHL today. The owners and the refs have tried several times. The Fans have made it abundantly clear that its not what they want to see. IMO players and coaches are the only ones who can do anything to improve this aspect of hockey.

 

[Weary]

Players are the ones who have to power to stop the boring ass impossible to martket clutching and grabbing crap that goes on in the NHL today. The owners and the refs have tried several times. The Fans have made it abundantly clear that its not what they want to see. IMO players and coaches are the only ones who can do anything to improve this aspect of hockey.

Then why won't the owners let them? Saying the players will have the same input as auto workers doesn't do that. Bettman and his minions should read up on Toyota, the most succesful auto company in the world. One of their keys to success taking worker input seriously.

One day the NHL will be studied in business schools. Sadly it won't be because of its success.

 

[Weary]

Well after all this I have decided if the players want to call themselves the product, that is fine. Products don't get paid. That juicy steak you purchase doesnt see one red cent. So let them call themselves the product all they want.

Do you always leave your middle undistributed?

 

[Scoogs]

To correct those who don't know, the NHL Network is in fact an NHL owned entity (60%). TSN is a partner who owns 20% and Insight Sports also own 20%. There are big plans for the channel, but legal issues have restricted entry into the US Market (ESPN deal I believe). The intent will be to launch into the US as soon as possible now that the original deal has expired (I believe).

Hey give my avatar back! You just took the URL from mine

 

[Mat]

hehe all that means is a lot less money for the greedy players.

how are they greedy?
i'm sure if your boss told you to take a 40%+ paycut, youd ask them to open their books to prove that you should be taking the cut to save your job for the future....and if they refused then you would fight it just like them

 

[Mat]

who else is gonna market the league?
when the NHL comes back, the fans are gonna need some coaxing to watch this game...who better then the players?

they claim they're the "product"...well, then market the product!

actors are a product too but you dont see them marketing themselves
their producers manage that

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

how are they greedy?
i'm sure if your boss told you to take a 40%+ paycut, youd ask them to open their books to prove that you should be taking the cut to save your job for the future....and if they refused then you would fight it just like them

Guess what Sparky, the NHL has openned the books for the NHLPA and the NHLPA has refused to believe them. The champion of the NHLPA set around here, Wetcoaster, acknowledged this fact repeatedly, that the NHL and the NHLPA did indeed go over the books of four teams in detail and the NHLPA was not happy because they did not like the fact that "hockey revenues" (in the NHLPA's eyes anyways) were not calculated the same way by each franchise. They wanted to see all sunsidiary income included which the franchises in question said no, which is correct and would likely stand a legal challenge, which is why the NHLPA backed away from any further exploration. The NHLPA knows that the less they admit they know, the better their chances of a legal challenge are. This is why the NHLPA refuses to wish to explore the books any further than they have. Their claims hold more weight when they have ignorance backing them up. If they can claim they don't know how hockey related revenues are arrived at, then they can easily claim that the NHL is not on the up and up about sharing that information. Its a negotiation ploy that has back fired.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

actors are a product too but you dont see them marketing themselves
their producers manage that

Oh boy, you stepped in a big one there. Its obvious that you know nothing of the entertainment business and the political machine that it is. Actors are continually marketing themselves and the bigger they get the more people they have working for them in this capacity. Almost all actors have an agent (you can't get a job without one). Those guys get paid to promote and find new avenues for promotion. All actors of note have publicists that are responsible for handling all media inquireies and promotion tours. Most big name develop their own production houses so they can buy scripts and option rights on vehicles for themselves. This is the largest form of self promotion. When the actor gets involved with a studio to distribute their movies they are contracturally obligated to participate in the promotion of that movie through a concerted promotion tour. The actor works with the studios to promote the movies they create. Why? Because without this promotion (hype) the movie likely doesn't sell and the actor doesn't make the money he would hope to. It works in both parties favor. Good lord, if hockey players really wanted to make money they would be pushing for a coorperative venture like the movie studios have when it comes to product promotion. But they're too stupid to realize the long term health of the game leads to more oney for them. They would prefer to kill the game rather than work to make it better. Short term gain for long term pain. Brilliant on their part.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Let's say those NBC projections are correct.... Then the question I would ask is how much did ABC lose on their last deal with the NHL? The NBC deal provides the NHL with a share of the profits after NBC covers the costs of airing the games. So, if 6 million dollars is all the NHL would get from NBC, how much did ABC lose by giving the NHL 125 million a year for the last 5 years?

Networks routinely lose money on sports programming. Fox and CBS lose Tens of millions of dollars a year on the NFL rights.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Networks routinely lose money on sports programming. Fox and CBS lose Tens of millions of dollars a year on the NFL rights.

Why is it that the PA set thinks its okay for businesses and corporations to lose money on sports? I don't understand this mentality. Should these ventures not be self sustaining or cease to exist? Shouldn't the creation of environment where all can make money (player, owner, sponsor, broadcaster, etc.) be the prime directive of the governing bodies? This whole attitude of "its okay that the players demand more money than the industry can support because its okay that the businesses bleed huge amounts of money, its a tax write off" drives me up the wall. Guess who gets it in the keister when the "tax write off" takes effect? All of us. The goal should be to make these enterprises self sustaining or run them out of business once and for all. Millionaires should not be getting a handout from the general public. Corporations should not be getting a handout either. This mentality is what is killing our society. I wish people would wake up!

 

[labatt50]

[QUOTE=Mat]how are they greedy?
i'm sure if your boss told you to take a 40%+ paycut, youd ask them to open their books to prove that you should be taking the cut to save your job for the future....and if they refused then you would fight it just like them [/QUOTE]

I'm sure if I asked my boss to open his books to me, he would tell me it was none of my business what was in his books. One thing the players have lost sight of is that they are the employees. All employees are dispensable