NHLPA/Saskin Email Controversy (Saskin fired)

guyincognito

Registered User
Mar 21, 2007
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Say what you will about Goodenow's personal style, he always did what he thought was in the best interests of the NHLPA. Considering the mess he inherited from Eagleson, he did a remarkable job.

That's total BS. Nothing that happened between September of '04 and July of '05
was in the best interests of the NHLPA. Alot of them lost pay they'll never get back,
and for what? To end up with a worse deal than what was on the table. That was a double suicide, and they're lucky they got up from it, and now they'll have a friendly cap next season. Until the hardliners are po'ed at that and decide to reopen. Hey, and since the league is fudgeing the books in a *positive* light instead
of the pre-lockout *negative* light, why not, right?

Now, we hope they have a real hiring process and don't just end up with some lawyer
who is suitable to Chelios for his next battle against the "evil" Gary Bettman. I would be very concerned if I was a player. I get to trade someone snooping on me for someone likely working for people that have already made their money, and don't give a damn if they blow it all up, to make a point.
 

casualobserver

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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guyincognito
So the league is fudgeing the books?What else is new.Bettman is not evil but he is
a SCHMUCK who has just about ruined the NHL with his overexpansion of the league.
I gather from your post that being snooped at is not the worst thing,well some
people care for their privacy very much.Would you like for an outsider to read your
private mail?
 
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guyincognito

Registered User
Mar 21, 2007
31,300
1
guyincognito
So the league is fudgeing the books?What else is new.Bettman is not evil but he is
a SCHMUCK who has just about ruined the NHL with his overexpansion of the league.
I gather from your post that being snooped at is not the worst thing,well some
people care for their privacy very much.Would you like for an outsider to read your
private mail?

What do you think happens in your office or place of work when you use the computer?

How do you think people get fired for doing things on the internet, that they shouldn't be doing, on the business' time? The boss is psychic? Stop being naive.
Businesses snoop email and computers all the time. It doesn't make it right, it makes it common practice. It's damn weasely to set up a private email base for the players, because they were spread out all over the world, and then read their mails, but what are you going to do? It's more commonplace than you think. And if it wasn't for Saskin doing all of this backhanded stuff, the league would have been dead. Stupid lemmings were going off the cliff and he saved them.

It was a witch hunt. And they got lucky and hit paydirt. You won't be so happy about this when you see the outcome. What caused this? Saskin being too chummy with the league, and the hardliner jackasses *who already have made their money and don't care if they blow things up to make a point and almost ended the league* couldn't have that. They're not done with their pointless feud with Bettman, I'm sure they'll be ready to go again, next summer.
 
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Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
29,252
8,684
That's total BS. Nothing that happened between September of '04 and July of '05 was in the best interests of the NHLPA.
Re-read what Wetcoaster actually said:

Say what you will about Goodenow's personal style, he always did what he thought was in the best interests of the NHLPA.
Whether it was really in the best interests of the NHLPA is open to debate (and has been here many times) - but Goodenow was certainly no Alan Eagleson.

They're not done with their pointless feud with Bettman, I'm sure they'll be ready to go again, next summer.
Considering the players can't reopen the agreement until the end of the 2008-09 season, I'm curious how they're going to have a go at things next summer. Do you mean "2 years from now" instead - because I and others can probably put up a great argument that the NHLPA trying to reopen things after '08-09 cannot possibly end well for the union.
 
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guyincognito

Registered User
Mar 21, 2007
31,300
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Re-read what Wetcoaster actually said:


Whether it was really in the best interests of the NHLPA is open to debate (and has been here many times) - but Goodenow was certainly no Alan Eagleson.


Considering the players can't reopen the agreement until the end of the 2008-09 season, I'm curious how they're going to have a go at things next summer. Do you mean "2 years from now" instead - because I and others can probably put up a great argument that the NHLPA trying to reopen things after '08-09 cannot possibly end well for the union.

I thought the re-opening option came 3 years into the six year agreement.

You could also make a case that the lockout and year-long stoppage that was all but set in stone, going back even to 2003, wouldn't end well for anybody. And both sides still went forward.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Say what you will about Goodenow's personal style, he always did what he thought was in the best interests of the NHLPA. Considering the mess he inherited from Eagleson, he did a remarkable job.
First off, I would highly doubt the truth of your first statement, which is your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact). The manner in which he ran the union by all accounts - that is, in an ultra-autocratic manner - is hardly in the best interests of any union, because (a) it makes the leader seem completely indispensable and (b) it will always end badly once the union membership comes to understand what is being done in their "best interests". Don't forget that Goodenow was being paid almost two and a half times what Don Fehr was being paid. Saskin's allegedly exorbitant salary was 24% less than Goodenow's stipend.

Secondly, given the job that Eagleson did for (on) the players, it is hardly remarkable to suggest that Goodenow was better. A simply ineffective leader who didn't actually conspire against the membership would be "better" than Eagleson.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
From the article:

That is the players make a suggestion, and if Bill Daly and Gary Bettman happen to like the idea, they might float it past the Board of Governors. What the players would like to do is hire expertise, specifically in marketing, so impressive that the Governors would want to listen to their ideas, because most of the players are passionate about the game and its growth potential.

What an absolute laugh. The players are no such thing. They "just want to play hockey". How many times have we heard that? If I had a nickel for every time I heard a player act dismissive about PA business and just profess to wanting to play hockey ... well, let's just say I would have a lot of nickels.

Also:

Goodenow, meanwhile, the one man who has always had the players best interest at heart despite his autocratic style, is relaxing at his home in Northern Michigan watching the proceedings with no interest in returning.

I would be surprised if Goodenow were not involved in the orchestration of Saskin's downfall. I actually believe it is a bit of a coup by a few agents, but I suspect Goodenow has been feeding them all the information they require. I do not know whether he could come back, but interest? You better believe it.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
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8,684
I would be surprised if Goodenow were not involved in the orchestration of Saskin's downfall. I actually believe it is a bit of a coup by a few agents, but I suspect Goodenow has been feeding them all the information they require. I do not know whether he could come back, but interest? You better believe it.
Some people may not want a job back after they get booted from it, but they sure as hell don't want certain others from having it either - and that may be the case here. I honestly don't know if he has any interest in coming back (if Linden & Co. got swept out, it might be a different story) but helping to orchestrate Saskin's downfall? I'd be completely shocked if he didn't have both hands in trying to help bring Saskin down.
 

FlyerFan

Registered User
Jun 4, 2005
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First off, I would highly doubt the truth of your first statement, which is your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact). The manner in which he ran the union by all accounts - that is, in an ultra-autocratic manner - is hardly in the best interests of any union, because (a) it makes the leader seem completely indispensable and (b) it will always end badly once the union membership comes to understand what is being done in their "best interests". Don't forget that Goodenow was being paid almost two and a half times what Don Fehr was being paid. Saskin's allegedly exorbitant salary was 24% less than Goodenow's stipend.

Secondly, given the job that Eagleson did for (on) the players, it is hardly remarkable to suggest that Goodenow was better. A simply ineffective leader who didn't actually conspire against the membership would be "better" than Eagleson.


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba/who/goodenow_bob.html
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Some people may not want a job back after they get booted from it, but they sure as hell don't want certain others from having it either - and that may be the case here. I honestly don't know if he has any interest in coming back (if Linden & Co. got swept out, it might be a different story) but helping to orchestrate Saskin's downfall? I'd be completely shocked if he didn't have both hands in trying to help bring Saskin down.
If he is not interested in coming back the NHLPA may want to have him be part of the search process.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Read the link again and perhaps you'll be just as familiar with the evolution of the NHLPA under Goodenow's tenure as opposed to just merely noting his background.
Or:
NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow was once asked about what happened when he replaced Alan Eagleson in the early 1990's as the head of the players' union. Goodenow responded: "The association was riddled with inefficiencies and improprieties. I cleaned it up."

That he did. He installed safeguards to protect against the abuses and scandals of the Eagleson regime. Abuses and scandals that resulted in criminal charges against Eagleson in both the United States and Canada. Charges that sent Eagleson to prison for six months.

Goodenow instituted a policy where agents had to be certified by the NHLPA or NHL teams could not deal with them. Contract negotiations are closely watched by the NHLPA. Full disclosure of player salaries, unheard of in the NHL previously, became policy. That helped, in part, to drive up player salaries from an average of $276,000 in 1990-91 to $1.79 million last season.

Goodenow helped turn the NHLPA into an excellent business, helping increase its revenues through licensing and other methods. He hired experts to run parts of the business.

He turned the NHLPA from a weak union into a formidable adversary to challenge the NHL and team owners.

And he made it clear early on that he was not Eagleson. There would be no cozy relationship with the league or team owners. Goodenow meant business and that business was representing NHL players.

Writing in the just released book "Money Players: How Hockey's Greatest Stars Beat the NHL At It's Own Game," veteran hockey writer Bruce Dowbiggin said this about Goodenow:

"Goodenow conveyed that he was nobody's patsy during his initial encounters with the league. After seeing him at a holiday resort in Massachusetts in the summer of 1990, one NHL insider described the former Harvard captain as 'introverted, sullen and humorless.' Of course, next to the crass, garrulous, noisy Alan Eagleson, even Jerry Lewis might come across as an introvert."
http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/11-23cba.htm
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Read the link again and perhaps you'll be just as familiar with the evolution of the NHLPA under Goodenow's tenure as opposed to just merely noting his background.
I am quite a bit more than familiar with the evolution of the NHLPA, both before and during the Goodenow era.

I ask again: your point?
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
29,252
8,684
Say what you will about Goodenow's personal style, he always did what he thought was in the best interests of the NHLPA. Considering the mess he inherited from Eagleson, he did a remarkable job.

First off, I would highly doubt the truth of your first statement, which is your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact). The manner in which he ran the union by all accounts - that is, in an ultra-autocratic manner - is hardly in the best interests of any union, because (a) it makes the leader seem completely indispensable and (b) it will always end badly once the union membership comes to understand what is being done in their "best interests". Don't forget that Goodenow was being paid almost two and a half times what Don Fehr was being paid. Saskin's allegedly exorbitant salary was 24% less than Goodenow's stipend.

Secondly, given the job that Eagleson did for (on) the players, it is hardly remarkable to suggest that Goodenow was better. A simply ineffective leader who didn't actually conspire against the membership would be "better" than Eagleson.

Wetcoaster offered his take, you challenged it, someone else pointed out what a 3rd party (a media outlet - in this case, CBC) had to say about Goodenow around September 15, 2004, Wetcoaster provided a link which details how the union strengthened dramatically under Goodenow's watch while taking care of issues that caused problems while Eagleson ran the union - which helped strengthen the union even more. I haven't seen a link backing your assertion that Goodenow ran the union "in an ultra-autocratic manner" or that the union as a whole chased him out as a result.

BTW - while Goodenow may have been making for than Fehr, the union (be it rank-and-file or the executive committee ... more than a few people) actually gave their approval for him to have that salary; from prior reports, Saskin got his salary [and came to power as the head of the NHLPA] because Trevor Linden (not the rank-and-file, not the union's executive committee - Linden and Linden alone) wrote the contract that spelled out Saskin's terms of employment - and yes, the salary Saskin would earn as head of the NHLPA.

If you don't agree that Goodenow did a great job, fine - you're entitled to that opinion. Wetcoaster seems to have the opinion that Goodenow did a good if not great job. As much as you attacked Wetcoaster's post for being "your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact)," yours is equally opinionated and is an attempt to pass your opinion off as fact just as much as his.
 
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guyincognito

Registered User
Mar 21, 2007
31,300
1
Wetcoaster offered his take, you challenged it, someone else pointed out what a 3rd party (a media outlet - in this case, CBC) had to say about Goodenow around September 15, 2004, Wetcoaster provided a link which details how the union strengthened dramatically under Goodenow's watch while taking care of issues that caused problems while Eagleson ran the union - which helped strengthen the union even more. I haven't seen a link backing your assertion that Goodenow ran the union "in an ultra-autocratic manner" or that the union as a whole chased him out as a result.

BTW - while Goodenow may have been making for than Fehr, the union (be it rank-and-file or the executive committee ... more than a few people) actually gave their approval for him to have that salary; from prior reports, Saskin got his salary [and came to power as the head of the NHLPA] because Trevor Linden (not the rank-and-file, not the union's executive committee - Linden and Linden alone) wrote the contract that spelled out Saskin's terms of employment - and yes, the salary Saskin would earn as head of the NHLPA.

If you don't agree that Goodenow did a great job, fine - you're entitled to that opinion. Wetcoaster seems to have the opinion that Goodenow did a good if not great job. As much as you attacked Wetcoaster's post for being "your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact)," yours is equally opinionated and is an attempt to pass your opinion off as fact just as much as his.


I think it's alot easier to support him doing a poor job than it is a good one.

At the time of his demise, by being cut out of the negotiations, the league was on its' way to the second season of a work stoppage, and yet he was sticking to his guns, as the rank and file of the union suffered. He passed up on deals that were
better than what the union eventually accepted. I think the inital "serious" offer (not the low $30 million cap thrown around in 2003) was similiar to what they accepted. Everyone in the world, that followed this, knew the PA was going to lose,
but he wasn't willing to, he'd rather have seen the whole ship go down than have that happen.

Bettman gets universally bashed, and Goodenow deserves the same fate. So, he
pulled up a broken, corrupt, ineffective union by its bootstraps and made it a "force"? How exactly did he leave it... broken, corrupt, and inneffective. *Everyone* involved in that process deserves to have been strung up and removed from the game.

Now, what it looks like is that the Bettman side survived completely intact (for reasons totally unknown), and while the leader of the PA fell, the more radical elements of the NHLPA EC are going to get their power back and have the potential
to lead another lemming run (also for reasons totally unknown.) Can't be too optimistic considering that. But who knows, maybe the PA will find someone who is more interested in promoting and building the game, instead of battling the very poor man's David Stern on the labor battlefield, to collective "yawns" and "what channel is poker on", from the already dying US market.
 

Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
29,252
8,684
1. If you want to rip Goodenow for the fact that the NHLPA was soundly routed in this past lockout, I don't know anyone that's going to dispute it. But let's face it - Alan Eagleson never gets the union to stand up to the owners in 1992 or 1995, never cracks down on unscrupulous agents, never cleans up corruption (because he was complicit in it), never works on merchandising for the good of the players, and never works to help player salaries rise like they did from 1991-2004 (because he's on the take from the owners, who are all too happy to use him to keep the union quiet and under near-complete control by suppressing salaries as low as possible while hogging every last dime of profit for themselves).

For that, Goodenow deserves credit. His fatal mistake was trying to squeeze another golden egg out of the goose, especially when it was apparent the owners were much more organized and ready to wait things out than they were in 1994 - and for that, he deserves to be criticized and second-guessed.

2. The reason Bettman survived? Because he's employed by the owners - and let's face it, the owners won big. He told the owners if they hung together they could beat the NHLPA, and he worked hard to make that happen and get the owners what they wanted in a new labor deal. As kdb209 has pointed out repeatedly, reports from Gretzky and other players was that the NHLPA was very close to caving in during the '94-95 lockout, and the owners panicked seeing the season tick away and rushed to make a deal over Bettman's objections. This time they listened to him, and they pretty much got everything they wanted going into the lockout.

So why on earth would the owners fire the guy who helped them extract the concessions they were looking for? The current TV contract? You do realize that before Bettman took over, the NHL's TV contract was on SportsChannel ... right? (No, most people have never heard of SportsChannel either - and most people never had access to it.) If the NHL is growing more and more irrelevant then why is attendance up again this year leaguewide? Why are revenues up again in '06-07, by possibly another 8-10%?

Creative accounting? Um ... no - all of the numbers are audited so there's no more "tricky accounting" going on, and the NHLPA has access to those numbers. Of course, the assumption that teams are fudging numbers implies that the league as a whole is generating less revenue than it's reporting - and since the NHLPA's cut is based on what's being reported, why would the league report revenues higher than reality knowing that (A) it would mean the players would be getting more money than they should, and (B) some teams are in more financial trouble than they're admitting - and do tell, why would any of that be good for the league as a whole or any of the 30 teams individually and why would the NHLPA go along with that kind of a charade?

If you really think that the popularity of the NHL has waned from great heights to near-irrelevance, you should go read this thread which explains that the long-alleged "great popularity" the league had circa 1994 is much more fiction than fact. Of course if you just hate Bettman because he's Bettman, ... well, there's nothing anyone can do to help you out with that.
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
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The moment the NHL killed the that season, the NHLPA lost all leverage they had and they NHL teams took the boots to the NHLPA. The owners were better off and more prepared for a second dead year. At the end of the arguement is there are players and agents who truly believed that they could get a new CBA without a contract. The owners had the votes to stay out until they got a cap. The NHLPA thought that certains teams who loved spending money would pressure the rest of the owners not to force a cap. A few teams would tried to pressure other teams, only to get more pressure from other teams that they thought were on their side and the owners got their cap and the players are pissed off about it
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Wetcoaster offered his take, you challenged it, someone else pointed out what a 3rd party (a media outlet - in this case, CBC) had to say about Goodenow around September 15, 2004, Wetcoaster provided a link which details how the union strengthened dramatically under Goodenow's watch while taking care of issues that caused problems while Eagleson ran the union - which helped strengthen the union even more. I haven't seen a link backing your assertion that Goodenow ran the union "in an ultra-autocratic manner" or that the union as a whole chased him out as a result.

BTW - while Goodenow may have been making for than Fehr, the union (be it rank-and-file or the executive committee ... more than a few people) actually gave their approval for him to have that salary; from prior reports, Saskin got his salary [and came to power as the head of the NHLPA] because Trevor Linden (not the rank-and-file, not the union's executive committee - Linden and Linden alone) wrote the contract that spelled out Saskin's terms of employment - and yes, the salary Saskin would earn as head of the NHLPA.

If you don't agree that Goodenow did a great job, fine - you're entitled to that opinion. Wetcoaster seems to have the opinion that Goodenow did a good if not great job. As much as you attacked Wetcoaster's post for being "your unsupported opinion (which you are trying to pass off as fact)," yours is equally opinionated and is an attempt to pass your opinion off as fact just as much as his.


My original post said two things:

1. There is no basis to assert that Goodenow did things with the thought of doing what was in the best interests of the players.

2. Anyone would look good after Eagleson.

IB, the link that was posted and the quote that Wetcoaster provided did nothing to contradict those points.

Note on my point #2 that I did not say Goodenow did not do positive things for the players, although (as is pointed out above) one can make a strong argument that Goodenow left the union more or less as he found it in functional terms. He did leave its members wealthier than when he joined, so I suppose one can argue that short-term for the members under his watch he improved their lot quite a bit and long-term he did nothing to strengthen the union as an entity for the benefit of players in the long term. Either way, as I pointed out above, my original point was not that Goodenow had zero achievements. Accordingly, my response to the first responder ("Your point?") is valid. Accordingly, also valid is my point #2; anyone WOULD look good after Eagleson. My point was not

If you don't agree that Goodenow did a great job, fine - you're entitled to that opinion.

In fact, I did not even say that in my original post.

As to my point #1, Wetcoaster has no basis to suggest that he is aware of Goodenow's supposedly altruistic motives. Unless he is Goodenow, he cannot say that for certain. Neither can I, for that matter. Accordingly, the information on which we have to judge his motives are his actions. I judge his actions to be those of a man who set up his union as a personal fiefdom where he was indispensible. For those of us who work in the corporate world - and you are one of them, IB - I think we all recognize this type of behaviour. It is not designed to improve one's organization. It is designed to secure one's place (and dominance, at the higher levels) in the organization.

The second manner in which I would judge Goodenow's actions is through the manner in which the lockout itself played out. Both with the 24% offer and the failed strategy, it was clear that positions were dictated at the top. When the 24% was offered, players were stunned; no one had consulted them or even given them the courtesy of advising them of such a fundamental move. When the cap was first offered, players like Scott Walker and others were only the day before saying a cap would NEVER be considered. I do not have a link, but go to your local library and read Marvin Miller's autobiography. Therein he will explain exactly how he built the MLBPA. He expressly states that he did not ever dictate positions. The strength of that organization came through the years of painstaking education that he gave to the rank and file. As Goodenow was a self-described fan of Miller, I must assume that Goodenow read that book cover to cover. Yet, the lessons do not seem to have taken.

Incidentally, you have no basis to state exactly how Goodenow's salary was set. Neither do I, but I would be willing to bet cash money that Goodenow decided how much he was getting, and the Board rubberstamped it.

Now, as to the quote that Wetcoaster provided as to what Goodenow did, the certification of agents was arguably not done to "protect the players". In fact, there are still guys who get ripped off. The problem has neve been so much the agents who do the ripping off, but the players' financial advisors (who are not certified, because they do not negotiate the player contracts). The certification is only with respect to individuals who negotiate SPC's with the teams. Players can still pick whomever they want to manage their finances, and they still get screwed from time to time (a la Modano) as a result. However, one CAN also say that the certification process gives the head of the NHLPA enormous (even total) power over agents who might advise their clients to question NHLPA leadership. But no, for Wetcoaster this obvious conclusion would not have occurred to Goodenow when he was setting this up.

As for Goodenow turning the NHLPA into an excellent business, as Wetcoaster's quote states? Let me put it this way: an "excellent business" - which to me is not just a business that makes a lot of money, but rather a business which is set up professionally and designed to last - does not wind up in the shambolic mess that it did. Certainly when Goodenow started it was a complete amateur show, but when he left it was equally clearly careening along in a completely unfocussed manner, with brutal internecine politics and factionalism. Maybe my standards are too high, but that is not an "excellent business". Pretty freaking far from it. IMO.

One more thing. While I have read many an article over the years about Goodenow's personal style being highly autocratic - articles to which I have no link (not everything is on the internet) - Fugu earlier posted in this thread (post 167) an article confirming this style. http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.feature&featureId=2179. This article refers to "dozens" of other stories stating he was a bully (some of which are probably the ones I remember reading).
 
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FlyerFan

Registered User
Jun 4, 2005
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My original post said two things:

1. There is no basis to assert that Goodenow did things with the thought of doing what was in the best interests of the players.

2. Anyone would look good after Eagleson.

1. :boredom:

2. Let me provide your second point in its entirety.

Secondly, given the job that Eagleson did for (on) the players, it is hardly remarkable to suggest that Goodenow was better. A simply ineffective leader who didn't actually conspire against the membership would be "better" than Eagleson.

There now, remember that? To imply that Goodenow was only better relatively speaking than Eagleson is disingenuous. I posted a link that elaborated on Goodenow's tenure with the NHLPA and Wetcoaster was gracious enough to provide another link.
 

Fugu

Guest
One more thing. While I have read many an article over the years about Goodenow's personal style being highly autocratic - articles to which I have no link (not everything is on the internet) - Fugu earlier posted in this thread (post 167) an article confirming this style. http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.feature&featureId=2179. This article refers to "dozens" of other stories stating he was a bully (some of which are probably the ones I remember reading).


GC, I know you may not like Goodenow, but seriously. Linden, Saskin, et. al. got taken to the cleaners by the NHL negotiating group. If you read the cited article, it does appear that at every juncture they opposed the advice given by Goodenow. Removing him earlier than July 2005 was simply not an option in that it might alarm the players, especially in the midst of the lockout. His particular figure head was still needed. I also believe Linden did what the thought was best or right. Unfortunately, he clearly overstepped even the bounds of the NHLPA's exception on leading the negotiations. Was he simply ignorant (likely) and/or naive (perhaps) especially if someone who should know better was offering counsel (unsubstantiated, but I wouldn't put it past him)?

The fact that Goodenow may have appeared autocratic in the eyes of some or those who disliked him is irrelevant. We are talking about results here and what he achieved during his tenure. In hindsight, one can criticize him for taking his anti-cap stance, but the argument only stands in retrospect-- after the players could not support a course they approved. That they were warned it could take two years and agreed at the outset cannot be argued. They failed to stay the course. Would things have turned out differently had they not? We will never know, but let's at least place the blame for failure that did happen at certain players' feet.

Finally, I wanted to highlight my favorite quotation from the Sports Business Journal article. It should play well to an NHL audience, although the way the writer presents it is 'proof' of Goodenow's autocratic style. Personally I'd expect nothing less from the NHLPA head. One could extend this to say it is doubtful Bettman would ever be able to act similarly-- for a number of reasons! ;)

At an annual Sports Lawyers Association conference a few years back, several dozen lawyers were gathered in the bar of the Arizona Biltmore, watching the last few minutes of a lopsided NHL playoff game. When one of the attorneys changed the channel to an NBA playoff game that was just starting, Goodenow, from his seat on a sofa near the television, growled, “Turn that **** off.†The lawyer sheepishly got up and turned the TV back to hockey, and not one attorney said a word.

If the head of the NBA's player association had been in the audience, I might say sure, fine... The guy should've known better.
 

Fugu

Guest
Big Brother Was Reading E-mail

Kukla's Korner was able to provide a free link to the Sports Business Journal article that gives a few a more details of the Paliare report to the NHLPA exec board. I'll link to KK's since he got a free link when normally a subscription is required.

The electronic spying program instituted at the NHL Players’ Association targeted 45 players, was referred to as “Big Brother” and extended to ex-union chief Ted Saskin examining how individual players voted in the secret ballot to ratify the NHL labor deal, according to sources familiar with a report on the matter.

Among other details from the report, according to sources: Saskin systematically read the personal e-mails of players and union staff members for more than a year, but stopped briefly because he was concerned about legal implications in the wake of the Hewlett-Packard corporate surveillance scandal. Saskin resumed reading the messages when he learned of an effort by NHL players to authorize an investigation into his hiring and other activities.
 

thinkwild

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Jul 29, 2003
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Ottawa
lil devil said:
The owners were better off and more prepared for a second dead year. At the end of the argument is there are players and agents who truly believed that they could get a new CBA without a [cap]. The owners had the votes to stay out until they got a cap.

I agree, the owners were more prepared to have a 2nd year of no hockey. They were completely willing to sacrifice a 2nd season to get their money. The players weren’t. Like fans, the hockey was more important to the players. The owners couldn’t care less, they were prepared to go on forever as you suggest, even losing their franchises. Or were they? Was their a point when the owners say enough is enough?

Who were the lemmings and league killers again?

Going from no cap to cap is a huge philosophical change with ramifications that will cost the players as a whole perhaps of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars over the life of the deal. And for future generations of players, this has been a long historical battle. The players knew they were making a sacrifice from whi9ch they would not likely recover. That was the nature of the fight. They had to stand up, make the sacrifice, in order to win.

It is evident to me that many of leagues most rabid business supporters feel you should give up these things with out a fight. The spinelessness speaks for itself.

irish blues said:
For that, Goodenow deserves credit. His fatal mistake was trying to squeeze another golden egg out of the goose, especially when it was apparent the owners were much more organized and ready to wait things out than they were in 1994 - and for that, he deserves to be criticized and second-guessed.

Another golden egg? For the first time in a century of owner abuses towards the players, leaving bobby Orr penniless, etc, the decades of criminal activity by owners, finally Goodenow expels their corrupt partner Eagleson and wins the Players the right to marketplace value like all other north americans. He successfully stood up to the bullies and protected what they fought for and finally won once, creating a compromise that Bettman himself eloquently defended as a masterpiece that did not help large markets but created the ability for small markets to find a comparative advantage and develop an elite team. These were bettmans words. I belatedly came to agree with Bettman on that.

For almost 6 years, bettman and the owners foreshadowed the Armageddon that was going to arrive in 2004. The battle lines had been drawn for a decade.

As Carpenter disingenuously trys to attack Goodenow for autocracy, he knows that in negotiations consolidating power in your generals is wise. For the same reason bettman consolidated with his 75% mandate. Not to mention that Goodenow was the association. The players may have been like a steering committee, but he was the man they hired to run things. To be the expertise. To be the general.

It seems really dishonest to portray this as Goodenow attempting to steal another golden egg. Seems more to me he was protecting the freedoms they had just finally won after a century of oppression and illegalities. Ymmv

Goodenow did educate his membership. As a group they were much more well informed and connected than previously. I think I might agree with Gerald though that Goodenows failure may have been his inability to educate enough of the players well enough and gain their support for the long term battle. Too many players had a hard time explaining what they were fighting for. And they shouldn’t have, for it was a noble battle. :)
 

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