NHLPA/Saskin Email Controversy (Saskin fired)

[Buffaloed]

Incidentally, I have seen Grimson's position referred to as "Legal Counsel". I do not believe GRimson is the NHLPA's GC, particularly with more senior lawyers like Penny on staff.

You're right! I just checked the NHLPA site.

NHLPA ANNOUNCES STAFF ADDITIONS
Here's the press release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

NHLPA ANNOUNCES STAFF ADDITIONS
…GRIMSON AND DAMPHOUSSE JOIN THE NHLPA


TORONTO (March 2, 2006) - Ted Saskin, NHLPA Executive Director and General Counsel, today announced the addition of Stu Grimson and Vincent Damphousse to the National Hockey League Players’ Association staff.

Stu Grimson, a long-time NHLPA member and a former Player Representative and Executive Committee Vice-President, has joined the NHLPA’s Labour Department. Stu will be working in several areas including grievances, League/Player discipline and arbitrations.

“I have been involved with the NHLPA for many years as a Player Rep and an Executive Committee member so I’m excited to have the opportunity to work on behalf of all members in a different capacity,” said Grimson.

Vincent Damphousse, another long-time NHLPA member and a former Player Representative and Executive Committee Vice-President, has joined the NHLPA as our Director of Business Relations. Vincent will be working closely with our business partners in addition to participating in other revenue generating initiatives.He will also serve as a Trustee on the Pension Board.

“During my career, I was involved in NHLPA issues that affected the game both on and off the ice. It is great to be able to continue to help the game flourish in my new role working for the players,” said Damphousse.

“I’m confident that both Stu and Vincent’s previous NHLPA experience, combined with the respect they have in the hockey community, will make them great additions to our staff,” said Ted Saskin.

In addition, Mike Gartner will be assuming further responsibilities as our Director of Hockey Affairs. Following the completion of the new CBA, Gartner joined the Competition Committee as a non-voting member and his efforts have been vital in helping re-launch the game. Gartner is also the NHLPA's new representative on the Hockey Hall of Fame's Board of Directors and he will continue to serve as a Trustee on the Pension Board. With over 20 years of involvement with the NHLPA, Gartner will continue to advise and support the NHLPA in many areas of our business.

 

[Fugu]

That's all fine and dandy. I applaud him for obtaining a higher level of education.

However, my initial statement is that a person 8 months removed from a potential "pass" on a Bar and 15 months removed from law school is most likely not qualified on the legal issues surrounding this situation, let alone the entire BHLPA labor union.

I guess I'm not sure what your point was then, other than to ridicule Grimson? He was identified as 'union counsel' by the media. He was hired by Saskin, probably to help him out and thus the fact that he doesn't have a lot of work experience as an attorney was not an issue (so take it up with the guy who hired him for incompetence?). I doubt anyone expected this to happen. The NHLPA lost trust in its Exec Director and now the remaining staff have to administer the affair. Bloch is heading the earlier investigation. An employment attorney will be retained to help with Saskin's contract specifically (probably pending on the first investigation's results). A headhunter will no doubt be retained to help in the search for Saskin's replacement. We aren't asking Stu to argue a case in front of the Supreme Court of Canada-- which of course is limited to a highly select group of proven litigants!

 

[blitzkriegs]

Delete the "most likely" and you would have it. Maybe some day for Mr. Grimson, but there is not a first year lawyer who could handle this. As you state above, first year lawyers are, to put it bluntly, pretty well useless (sometimes they stay useless for many, many more years ). Experience is an absolute necessity for handling a file like this. Even a lawyer with five to seven years of solid experience working on important files would be in a little trouble. As I said above, there is no chance that Ian Penny is not in charge of this matter. Grimson is doing the grunt work, taking people's statements and the like.

Incidentally, I have seen Grimson's position referred to as "Legal Counsel". I do not believe GRimson is the NHLPA's GC, particularly with more senior lawyers like Penny on staff.

So, he's the NHLPA's 1st year...

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Tim Taylor the Tampa Bay Lightning player rep was just on the intermission with Bobby Taylor. He said Saskin will be officially fired in the next few days and he also said that this email breach could go deeper...maybe alluding to Goodenow's reign...stay tuned.

 

[GNick42]

Is it against the law to tamper or read somebody's else emails? Do the law consider it the same as regular mail or taping a phone line?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Is it against the law to tamper or read somebody's else emails? Do the law consider it the same as regular mail or taping a phone line?

That's the $64,000 question right now that no one has answered. U.S. employers have the right to monitor the e-mails of their employees, but generally must make employees aware of that possibility - they ususally do so at the time of hiring and through notices here and there that they reserve the right to do so at any time.

Here, there's no word on whether players were informed that their e-mails could be monitored in the first place ... and since the whole thing is set up in Canada, I can't comment further on laws that might apply there.

 

[GNick42]

That's the $64,000 question right now that no one has answered. U.S. employers have the right to monitor the e-mails of their employees, but generally must make employees aware of that possibility - they ususally do so at the time of hiring and through notices here and there that they reserve the right to do so at any time.

Here, there's no word on whether players were informed that their e-mails could be monitored in the first place ... and since the whole thing is set up in Canada, I can't comment further on laws that might apply there.

Seems to me to be a breach of privacy or something.

 

[MaskedSonja]

My experience in Canada is that provided the employees know that their email, ect is subject to screening and viewing before they start their employment, and are reminded of it or have access to it in policies, it's okay. The question seems to be, as stated in previous posts, did the players know about it before hand? It's a breach of privacy only(I believe) only if you are unaware of the possiblities of it happening.

 

[bling]

My experience in Canada is that provided the employees know that their email, ect is subject to screening and viewing before they start their employment, and are reminded of it or have access to it in policies, it's okay. The question seems to be, as stated in previous posts, did the players know about it before hand? It's a breach of privacy only(I believe) only if you are unaware of the possiblities of it happening.

It seems to me the real issue here is that Ted Saskin is the "employee" not the players. Therefore you have an employee monitoring and /or tampering with his employers email is what is at issue.

Ted Saskin is not the boss of these guys. He is employed by the NHLPA to serve them.

 

[MaskedSonja]

It seems to me the real issue here is that Ted Saskin is the "employee" not the players. Therefore you have an employee monitoring and /or tampering with his employers email is what is at issue.

Ted Saskin is not the boss of these guys. He is employed by the NHLPA to serve them.

IF it's defined that way, then Saskin will get what any employee monitoring his boss's email gets- the boot with no compensation. Will the legal process see it that way, remains to be seen. I can see the point, if I were an employee and I asked to see my boss's email-well, we know that reaction would be. followed by a boot out the door.

 

[bling]

IF it's defined that way, then Saskin will get what any employee monitoring his boss's email gets- the boot with no compensation. Will the legal process see it that way, remains to be seen. I can see the point, if I were an employee and I asked to see my boss's email-well, we know that reaction would be. followed by a boot out the door.

Exactly!

I get so frustrated with the thought process in this thread that Saskin is portrayed (and somehow excused for it) as the employer monitoring his employees email. That just is NOT how it is.

 

[kdb209]

It seems to me the real issue here is that Ted Saskin is the "employee" not the players. Therefore you have an employee monitoring and /or tampering with his employers email is what is at issue.

Ted Saskin is not the boss of these guys. He is employed by the NHLPA to serve them.

I beleive that the distinction is not necessarily employer/employee, but who is paying for the servers/service and providing it for specific business related use.

Employer pays for email for empoyees for business use.

Organization (NHLPA) pays for email for members for business (NHLPA communications) use.

Given a statement of policy (even buried in boiler plate TOS) concerning privacy and the employer/organizations right to read, I do not believe that any laws have necessarily been broken. I also have heard (and in at least one case have first hand knowledge) of cases where employers have read employee email absent any stated policy without any legal ramifications.

But as we are seeing play out - this (like impeachment) is not really a criminal issue, but a political one. It's bad, because we said it's bad - you're fired. The only real legal issue here may be civil, not criminal, involving Saskin's contract - was he fired "for cause" or not and does he get his golden parachute.

Of course, there may also be jurisdictional issues - is this case investigated/potentially prosecuted under US or Canadian law.

 

[bling]

I beleive that the distinction is not necessarily employer/employee, but who is paying for the servers/service and providing it for specific business related use.

Employer pays for email for empoyees for business use.

Organization (NHLPA) pays for email for members for business (NHLPA communications) use.

Given a statement of policy (even buried in boiler plate TOS) concerning privacy and the employer/organizations right to read, I do not believe that any laws have necessarily been broken. I also have heard (and in at least one case have first hand knowledge) of cases where employers have read employee email absent any stated policy without any legal ramifications.

But as we are seeing play out - this (like impeachment) is not really a criminal issue, but a political one. It's bad, because we said it's bad - you're fired. The only real legal issue here may be civil, not criminal, involving Saskin's contract - was he fired "for cause" or not and does he get his golden parachute.

Of course, there may also be jurisdictional issues - is this case investigated/potentially prosecuted under US or Canadian law.

The NHLPA is comprised of the players and any funds used to pay for services comes from the players union dues.

 

[stazza18]

It seems to me the real issue here is that Ted Saskin is the "employee" not the players. Therefore you have an employee monitoring and /or tampering with his employers email is what is at issue.

Ted Saskin is not the boss of these guys. He is employed by the NHLPA to serve them.

I've heard this mentioned numerous times as fact. This is exactly why he is in the the trouble he is in. Saskin is not the employer, there is already precedence here.

 

[kdb209]

The NHLPA is comprised of the players and any funds used to pay for services comes from the players union dues.

Yes an no.

The NHLPA is a separate legal entity from the players - a tax exempt non profit organization. It may receive revenues from the players, but it's director and governing board make the decisions on how that money is spent. The mail servers and IT infrastructure are property of the NHLPA (not the members) - or more likely leased from third parties under contact with the NHLPA - and paid for by the NHLPA.

 

[bling]

Yes an no.

The NHLPA is a separate legal entity from the players - a tax exempt non profit organization. It may receive revenues from the players, but it's director and governing board make the decisions on how that money is spent. The mail servers and IT infrastructure are property of the NHLPA (not the members) - or more likely leased from third parties under contact with the NHLPA - and paid for by the NHLPA.

However you wish to cloak it the funding for the NHLPA comes from the players, therefore Saskin is in essence employed by the players.

I do agree that this is less about illegalities and more about improprieties. For Ted Saskin to use his ability to access the players emails and therefore have foreknowledge of what their concerns were and his use of that knowledge to manipulate the situation makes it at the very least skeezy if not illegal.

 

[PecaFan]

However you wish to cloak it the funding for the NHLPA comes from the players, therefore Saskin is in essence employed by the players.

He's paid to run the association and manage their affairs. And the email system etc is all part of the association.

This employer/employee stuff is totally misguided.

 

[GSC2k2*]

He's paid to run the association and manage their affairs. And the email system etc is all part of the association.

This employer/employee stuff is totally misguided.

Bang on. This stuff is helped along by the mainstream hockey media, whose collective brainpower and ability to discern the real issues continues to astound me.

 

[Buffaloed]

Bang on. This stuff is helped along by the mainstream hockey media, whose collective brainpower and ability to discern the real issues continues to astound me.

It's easy to bash the media but it's Wetcoaster who has advanced that theory several times in this thread starting at post #105.

 

[Fugu]

Bang on. This stuff is helped along by the mainstream hockey media, whose collective brainpower and ability to discern the real issues continues to astound me.

What are the 'real issues', GC? Without jumping to conclusions about your position, are you saying it is okay legally since the laws are either vague or rather clear on an employer's or administrator's right to monitor e-mail?

Isn't the issue for the players a matter of trust? They hired Saskin to be the Exec Director of their union. Would you personally feel it is okay for a person paid out of your membership dues to monitor and block e-mails of both players and agents who are in opposition to the director's policies? At the very least, this is a matter driven by personal interest over the interests of the union.

I suppose I'm surprised that we're still discussing the players' position on the matter. They placed Saskin on a leave of absence, and may end up firing him. That should convince anyone that they didn't like having their e-mail accounts accessed by the union chief. It is their money and their union after all, so they get to decide what's acceptable.

 

[bling]

He's paid to run the association and manage their affairs. And the email system etc is all part of the association.

This employer/employee stuff is totally misguided.

That sure sounds to me like he is employed by them and at their disgression, as evidenced by the fact a vote of the player representatives was all that was needed to put him on leave.

Those who wish to make claims otherwise; please tell me how it is they can remove him from his job if they are not his defacto employers?

I know it is simplistic to look at it this way but I do so merely as a counter to those proposing that it is inherently allowable and acceptable for an employer to read employee emails. In that argument it is somehow being represented that Ted Saskin is in the role of employer. That is just wrong.

 

[Wetcoaster]

That sure sounds to me like he is employed by them and at their disgression, as evidenced by the fact a vote of the player representatives was all that was needed to put him on leave.

Those who wish to make claims otherwise; please tell me how it is they can remove him from his job if they are not his defacto employers?

I know it is simplistic to look at it this way but I do so merely as a counter to those proposing that it is inherently allowable and acceptable for an employer to read employee emails. In that argument it is somehow being represented that Ted Saskin is in the role of employer. That is just wrong.

Whether or not is was breach of the NHLPA policy on e-mail has not yet been made clear but that is not the real issue.

It has been characterized by some player reps (even those who were previously pro-Saskin) that this is a fundamental breach of trust. The argument is that he was accessing the e-mail accounts to try to get to certain players and prevent players opposed to him from swaying support. It appears that his strategy had the opposite effect.

Even more troublesome to some of the reps was that Saskin first confirmed to Grimson and Gartner that he had in fact read the e-mails and then the next day tried to backtrack in the media. That more than anything else may have ultimately sunk him.

Players on Sunday's conference call were greeted by NHLPA outside counsel Stu Grimson and director of hockey affairs Mike Gartner, who informed them that Saskin acknowledged reading player e-mails after being confronted by them last Wednesday.

The next day Saskin, in an interview with The Canadian Press, said he "never accessed a player e-mail account and I have never ordered NHLPA technical staff to access player e-mail accounts."

But did he read players' e-mails? According to players on the call Sunday night, Grimson and Gartner said he did.

"I'm surprised," said Carolina Hurricanes player rep Craig Adams. "I would never have thought that these allegations would be true. And it seems like they are. That surprises me and disappoints me. ...

"Obviously you'd like to think you could trust the people that seem to have your best interests in mind and work for you. So yes, it is disappointing."
........
Veteran Coyotes center Jeremy Roenick said he likes Saskin as a person but draws the line if the e-mail allegations are found to be true.

"To have to snoop . . . into other people's business and tap into personal business, that's really disappointing," said Roenick.

". . . And I'm not saying Ted's a bad guy, he's a good guy. He's got a family to take care and this is a tough time for him. But you have to be accountable for your actions, just like we are on the ice."

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=186810

"For any union to run successfully, there has to be trust and confidence in the leadership, maybe more so with athletes than some other unions. If you don't have that, it's hard to get everyone moving forward. Our CBA is up in two to four years, so it's important that we get this straightened out sooner rather than later." - Canadiens player rep Mike Johnson.

"It's something (the e-mail issue) we're looking at very seriously and we've got to get to the bottom of it." - Ottawa Senators star Daniel Alfredssonwho has been a key Saskin backer in the past.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Agent Rich Winter Blasts Toronto PD - Eagleson Part Deux?

Rich Winter who was one of the first agents to raise alarm bells about Eagleson apparently was one of the complainants about Saskin.

A hockey agent who helped engineer the ouster of NHL Players' Association executive Ted Saskin has accused the Toronto Police Service of sloppy work and, in a sharply worded letter to chief Bill Blair, compares the high-profile case to the force's bungled investigation of disgraced union founder Alan Eagleson.

Edmonton-based agent Ritch Winter was among a group of complainants who told Toronto police detectives Feb.16 that Saskin had conspired to read the private emails of players who opposed his hiring two years ago.

Winter said police have been "slothful" handling the investigation.
...........

Toronto police, which began an investigation about three weeks ago, took videotaped statements from Winter, Roloson and union lawyer Ian Penny and received a faxed letter of complaint from Red Wings player Chris Chelios. According to sources, Saskin has admitted to union staff that he read players' emails, but in his only public statements he has denied hacking into email.

Saskin has not been charged with any crime. He said that nothing illegal has transpired at the Toronto-based union.

Toronto police only yesterday made contact with the union's technical support staff, who allegedly were ordered by Saskin and Kim to surreptitiously access players' email accounts, sources told the Star.

The union's computer server, which might hold clues to how players were affected by the privacy breach, has not been examined by forensic investigators.

Winter wrote Blair that the NHLPA investigation is reminiscent of how Toronto police handled his 1990 complaint of Eagleson. The agent, whose clients include Detroit goalie Dominik Hasek, originally complained to the RCMP and Law Society of Upper Canada in January 1990 that Eagleson had illegally siphoned money away from the NHL's active and retired players.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/191132

 

[Creator]

This is also taken from the NHLPA website:

"While the management of daily operations is the responsibility of Ted Saskin, NHLPA Executive Director, the ultimate control over all NHLPA activities resides with the players, who each year elect representatives from their respective NHL teams in order to form an Executive Board. Overseeing the board is an Executive Committee, which currently consists of Interim Executive Committee members, Kevyn Adams, Daniel Alfredsson, Alyn McCauley, Wade Redden, Mathieu Schneider and Marty Turco."


Saskin=employee Players=Employer

 

[blitzkriegs]

"The union's computer server, which might hold clues to how players were affected by the privacy breach, has not been examined by forensic investigators."

Let me change that to WILL. If the Toronto police are going to proceed, then this is the 1st thing they should issue a subpoena/warrant for - However the legal system works in CAN.