NHLPA Press conference called for 7:45pm ET

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Almost as stupid as the players.

Nah, I would say the public is stupider than the players

 

[neelynugs]

Yeah, well, the public is pretty damn stupid.

yeah, well, it doesn't much matter, does it? b/c if the bulk of the public thinks the PA's stance is stupid, that puts pressure on them, no?

 

[richardn]

Yeah, well, the public is pretty damn stupid.

Agreed.

 

[hockeytown9321]

I agree 100%. The framework is there. However, the triggers, at least to this observer, seem exceedingly restrictive. As presented, they essentially put the NHLPA and league "one false move" away from transitioning to the owner's desired (and NHLPA-rejected) proposal.

Exactamundo. The NHL's proposal does not give the tax a chance to work.

I think it may come down to there being one trigger (total salaries over a certain percentage) and a guarantee the cap doesn't kick in until the third year of the agreement. Basically, use the PA's tax for two years no matter what. If at any point in those two years the trigger is hit, the cap goes into effect beginnig with year three.

 

[jcab2000]

Nah, I would say the public is stupider than the players

The public aren't the ones flushing $1.5 billion down the toilet this year just so they can get a higher percentage of much lower revenues next year or the year after.

 

[chiavsfan]

Nah, I would say the public is stupider than the players

And your use of the word "stupider," which isn't a word just proves it

So what time are they supposed to go back to the table if they agreed to continue meeting tonight

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

And your use of the word "stupider," which isn't a word just proves it

So what time are they supposed to go back to the table if they agreed to continue meeting tonight

Yay Exactly my Point.

 

[Toonces]

Both the Owners and the Players are stupid, or we wouldn't be where we are today. I really don't want to have to sift through 10 pages of "so and so is stupider" posts...

The league is being destroyed because these morons can't come to an agreement.

 

[Fish]

And your use of the word "stupider," which isn't a word just proves it

It may not be great grammar, but it is actually a word:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=stupider

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

The public aren't the ones flushing $1.5 billion down the toilet this year just so they can get a higher percentage of much lower revenues next year or the year after.

The Public also loves the show American Idol and trucker hats, so they're still stupider than wasting away 1.5 billion dollars.

 

[jcab2000]

Both the Owners and the Players are stupid, or we wouldn't be where we are today. I really don't want to have to sift through 10 pages of "so and so is stupider" posts...

The league is being destroyed because these morons can't come to an agreement.

I completely disagree because the future of the league relies on all the teams' financial stability. For the owners to come to an agreement that doesn't ensure that would be even more stupid than what they're doing now.

Unless you don't think financial stability is important.....

 

[Jackson Ranger]

Both the Owners and the Players are stupid, or we wouldn't be where we are today. I really don't want to have to sift through 10 pages of "so and so is stupider" posts...

The league is being destroyed because these morons can't come to an agreement.

Finally a post that sums up this whole situation perfectly.

 

[jcab2000]

The Public also loves the show American Idol and trucker hats, so they're still stupider than wasting away 1.5 billion dollars.

Alrighty then.

 

[Greschner4]

Thank you, I was trying to word that as well but you wrote it much better than me. Thats EXACTLY what it is. I dont understand how people don't see that the triggers are actually the CAP cause if you go over any of that, it results in the cap. So in essence the triggers are the cap. It's a neat idea and could work if all these numbers are negotiated big time, but people saying "NHLPA rejected their own proposal" is just stupid cause just LOOK at the triggers. I mean what if the NHLPA offered they accept the NHL's proposal but if the salary floor every goes down to 30 million the luxury tax shall be implemented or some hooplah like that.

It isn't THE cap because there would be a one-year interim period between the triggers being hit and the cap kicking in. That's a bit of a technicality but it would give the PA an extra non-cap year.

I'm very pro-owner, but the league proposal alone is obviously a no-brain reject. At the very least the PA should get all of next year to test out its system; nothing at all should be based on this year, which just needs to be a one-off. The triggers have to be loosened and there needs to be more than one hit for it to be a true test of the PA system, IMO.

One thing that the PA would get out of it also that needs to be stressed more is there wouldn't need to be a dispersal draft, which is certainly not insignificant.

All that being said, if it's true that Goodenow said at his presser that he won't take any kind of trigger deal even if the league takes December 9, he's being a jagoff again.

 

[Wpg Jets]

i agree with toonces if either of these 2 sides had half a brain they wouldn't be here. the Nfl Cba expires in 2 years and they have been working on a new one for a year now already. why? b/c they know a lockout or strike the this one he nhl is in would kill the leagues crediblity! But once again the Nhl who wants to run with the big leagues behaves like a bunch of children fighting over the last cookie!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So who has kept count of how many meaningful proposals both sides have made? How about a general count of the proposals made by the NHL and the NHLPA since the start of the lockout, September 15, 2004.

Why does it seem like one side is attempting harder than the other to get a deal done? Doesn't it take "two to tango?"
Bettman announced today during his conference that the NHL offered the NHLPA to take a look at the books. They proposed the NHLPA along with Mr. Levitt to go over his findings. Are they too scared to find out the truth?

I find it funny that the minority of those who are supporting the union's stance has failed to come up with any meaningful reasoning as to why the PA has failed to negotiate fairly and has not made any gestures in reaching a compromise or finding a middle ground. They are the ones who said we will NEVER accept into a specific system. The NHL has made no such comments. How are you going to negotiate when your partner wouldn't even consider what is being presented to them?

Why couldn't the NHLPA come up with a significant offer that included a luxury tax with a bite? Their proposal was a paltry attempt to make it seem like they were trying. This is Goodenow's negotiating ploy. He got the best deal for his clients by simply refusing every contract offer. He kept saying "no" and the offers kept improving. He has bragged about it himself. It comes as no surprise to me that he does the same when negotiating a contract for the 700+ members of the NHLPA.

And Bettman is no angel himself, along with some selective owners, but it is evident that they have made an attempt to give concessions to the players. They have improved their offers over time. Today's offer was a simple attempt to try to reach a compromise and work on it from there. I wasn't expecting the offer to be accepted nor am I surprised it was rejected within minutes. What irks me is the fact that the NHLPA has not come back with a counter since December 9th. I don't care who you support but that is inexcusable and a very bad example of negotiation. If anyone is to be blamed for not negotiating in good faith, it is Bob Goodenow.

 

[Greschner4]

So who has kept count of how many meaningful proposals both sides have made? How about a general count of the proposals made by the NHL and the NHLPA since the start of the lockout, September 15, 2004.

Why does it seem like one side is attempting harder than the other to get a deal done? Doesn't it take "two to tango?"
Bettman announced today during his conference that the NHL offered the NHLPA to take a look at the books. They proposed the NHLPA along with Mr. Levitt to go over his findings. Are they too scared to find out the truth?

I find it funny that the minority of those who are supporting the union's stance has failed to come up with any meaningful reasoning as to why the PA has failed to negotiate fairly and has not made any gestures in reaching a compromise or finding a middle ground. They are the ones who said we will NEVER accept into a specific system. The NHL has made no such comments. How are you going to negotiate when your partner wouldn't even consider what is being presented to them?

Why couldn't the NHLPA come up with a significant offer that included a luxury tax with a bite? Their proposal was a paltry attempt to make it seem like they were trying. This is Goodenow's negotiating ploy. He got the best deal for his clients by simply refusing every contract offer. He kept saying "no" and the offers kept improving. He has bragged about it himself. It comes as no surprise to me that he does the same when negotiating a contract for the 700+ members of the NHLPA.

And Bettman is no angel himself, along with some selective owners, but it is evident that they have made an attempt to give concessions to the players. They have improved their offers over time. Today's offer was a simple attempt to try to reach a compromise and work on it from there. I wasn't expecting the offer to be accepted nor am I surprised it was rejected within minutes. What irks me is the fact that the NHLPA has not come back with a counter since December 9th. I don't care who you support but that is inexcusable and a very bad example of negotiation. If anyone is to be blamed for not negotiating in good faith, it is Bob Goodenow.

It is clear that the PA and player statements -- which have been reported dozens of times -- that the owners should just try their system and if it doesn't work they could have a cap, were competely fraudulent.

 

[txomisc]

My new favorite poster...one who has the intellect and courage to look beyond his own point of view.

I agree 100%. The framework is there. However, the triggers, at least to this observer, seem exceedingly restrictive. As presented, they essentially put the NHLPA and league "one false move" away from transitioning to the owner's desired (and NHLPA-rejected) proposal.

I also agree. The triggers should be more reasonable.
I would propose something like
The highest payroll exceeds the lowest payroll by ___% AND ___ number of teams lose money

 

[jcab2000]

I also agree. The triggers should be more reasonable.
I would propose something like
The highest payroll exceeds the lowest payroll by ___% AND ___ number of teams lose money

The players aren't interested in any triggers, so it doesn't matter much what they are. The players want the owners to lose money to pay them, that's all.

 

[Morbo]

It is clear that the PA and player statements -- which have been reported dozens of times -- that the owners should just try their system and if it doesn't work they could have a cap, were competely fraudulent.

I'm sorry, but that is not clear at all.

How are the owners trying their system?

 

[txomisc]

The agreement that I most people on this board have been talking about for a long time is there for the taking, and the ball is in the PA's court. Essentially, the NHL gave in to playing without linkage and accepted the PA's 12/9 proposal, but said we doubt it could work so we are putting 4 triggers on it that would result in our proposal if anything goes wrong.

What I hope happens: The PA should come back with a vartiation of the 12/9 proposal that COULD work. The NHL has accepted to play under a luxury tax at least for some time, and in return the PA should come back at the NHL by improving the 12/9 proposal. This would have benefits for both sides. The PA would be less likely to have their proposal fail and end up with a linkage/hard cap. The NHL would get a better deal than the one they just accepted.

I think both sides could agree on an improved 12/9 proposal. Now, the only problem that remains is the triggers. The PA obviously doesn't want them there. So, the PA should propose to play under a hard cap, something 45 or 50 million and in return the NHL drops the triggers. With that hard cap, salaries would never get so out of control that the NHL would need their triggers to get linkage. Would end up with the luxury tax and the hard cap after it, around 45 or 50 mil. It's the best deal and the PA needs to propose it now.

Sounds like a brilliant idea to me. Care to take Bobs job?

 

[Greschner4]

I'm sorry, but that is not clear at all.

How are the owners trying their system?

Goodenow said he wasn't willing to link the December 9 offer with the possible triggering of a cap in any way. Read the stories covering his press conference and conference call ... with a critical rather than loving eye.

 

[Morbo]

Goodenow said he wasn't willing to link the December 9 offer with the possible triggering of a cap in any way. Read the stories covering his press conference and conference call ... with a critical rather than loving eye.

Sadly, whatever eye you read them with doesn't change the facts.

The players never offered triggers or cap restrictions in their proposal.

There is no contradiction.

 

[txomisc]

The players aren't interested in any triggers, so it doesn't matter much what they are. The players want the owners to lose money to pay them, that's all.

If that is true, make it blatantly obvious. In hugeass bold type. If payrolls are within X% and 0 teams lose money we will keep the NHLPAs system. If they aren't interested in agreeing to such terms they clearly have no interest in the league being healthy. It should be screamed from the tops of buildings.

 

[Toonces]

Financial stability is very important...

It's also important to have a league...and fan support...

All they have to do it find a way to devide up a rapidly shrinking pot of gold. Hockey will survive without it, but I'm not sure professional hockey will...