NHL to Vegas part V: Well? We're waiting! (for the NFL?)

[Voight]

Yeah, we'd discussed it a page or two ago. Hoping he just misspoke or said 18 instead of 17-18.

My biggest concern was him saying the NBA might not be far behind. That was a pretty big turn from his normal stance on basketball over the years.

I'm not excited about the prospects of another winter sport in town. We're 2 million people, and I like the idea of exclusivity with hockey. I think we can make it work with football, I get nervous with the direct competition with basketball though.

IMO NBA would do better.

 

[CasualFan]

It was just one of those things. People don't expect a place in the middle of the desert to be kind of hockey crazy. The fact that we're Vegas just further solidified people's precognition.

(emphasis added)

Who are "people"?

I counted all the folks that I interacted with today and the totals on that were: 23 out of 23 don't know or give a **** about hockey in Las Vegas; in an unrelated study, 1 out of 23 heard something about the Raiders and Las Vegas

 

[BattleBorn]

IMO NBA would do better.

You could likely make that statement about any US city more than 50 miles from the border.

I very much prefer hockey as a sport and I think it will do well. I hope that Vegas doesn't turn into the place where people catch a game while they're in town, but if we wind up introducing hockey to thousands of people a year I'm happy for the team and the sport in general.

(emphasis added)

Who are "people"?

I counted all the folks that I interacted with today and the totals on that were: 23 out of 23 don't know or give a **** about hockey in Las Vegas; in an unrelated study, 1 out of 23 heard something about the Raiders and Las Vegas

People in this case would be the ones pushing back on Vegas and hockey for the past few years. There were plenty here, there are more on other internet sports places. Those people.

 

[Voight]

Both markets will likely fall into the 18-26 range in revenues, and we'll have to discuss the definition of proven market later.

You are underselling Quebec City here. No reason they wouldn't be up there with the rest of the CDN teams. You can point to a expansion team being awful but there's always the chance of being a Panthers, Sharks or Wild who have success shortly after. Regardless, the Oulers have been complete crap the last decade and seem to be doing OK.

Nothing to discuss RE proven market. That is what they are.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I agree. I still think the NBA is going to have some places higher on their list than Las Vegas and I really don't know if MGM/AEG is going to want the place packed all winter and spring, especially since they're going to market the arena as a rodeo place and rodeo season here is in the winter.

Just off the top of my head, I've got to think somewhere in Kentucky, Virginia, Seattle, and Montreal or Vancouver are going to be higher than Vegas for the NBA. Though we were apparently in the running for an NBA franchise a decade or so ago if we could get an arena built that was NBA ready.

The NBA expansion business could be big for a different reason in terms of pushing that agenda. Like you said they aren't actually high on the list, but he expects NBA expansion to follow. I.E Gary get going but also hey the NBA is finally reaching out which puts something massive back in play. Seattle, who is the ideal second expansion partner for the league with an arena getting a lot more traction with the NBA rumor back out there...

 

[BattleBorn]

You are underselling Quebec City here. No reason they wouldn't be up there with the rest of the CDN teams. You can point to a expansion team being awful but there's always the chance of being a Panthers, Sharks or Wild who have success shortly after. Regardless, the Oulers have been complete crap the last decade and seem to be doing OK.

Nothing to discuss RE proven market. That is what they are.

Yeah, I put them in that range because that's where the non Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver Canadian teams seem to hang out.

I may have had a drink or two on the other part, especially now that I re-read the post. However, the implication that Vegas hasn't done plenty, even outside of the ticket drive, to prove that it's a hockey market is something I disagree with.

 

[Fenway]

What I am hearing from people close to the Bruins is there are at least 8 owners who do not want to expand and that is all it takes to block it. There are probably at least 15 teams that would love the expansion cash grab but you need 75% of the clubs to agree.

The NBA is watching what the NHL does simply because if Bettman pulls off the $500M expansion fee then the NBA could dream of a billion

None of us knows what the Coyotes situation will be for 2017-18 but it certainly appears Glendale is done. I personally think the holdup here is the NHL does not want to approve Vegas and deny Quebec City because the backlash would be enormous.

 

[BattleBorn]

What I am hearing from people close to the Bruins is there are at least 8 owners who do not want to expand and that is all it takes to block it. There are probably at least 15 teams that would love the expansion cash grab but you need 75% of the clubs to agree.

The NBA is watching what the NHL does simply because if Bettman pulls off the $500M expansion fee then the NBA could dream of a billion

None of us knows what the Coyotes situation will be for 2017-18 but it certainly appears Glendale is done. I personally think the holdup here is the NHL does not want to approve Vegas and deny Quebec City because the backlash would be enormous.

I'd be the least surprised person in the world if that was the case, but I've never thought this was an expansion. I think expansion is Plan B. To be honest, I'd be surprised if there was less than 8 teams against expansion with everything going on in Arizona unresolved.

Hell, I think Foley would be against expansion if there was a decent chance that Arizona gets sold for $300 tops in a year.

 

[Fenway]

I'd be the least surprised person in the world if that was the case, but I've never thought this was an expansion. I think expansion is Plan B. To be honest, I'd be surprised if there was less than 8 teams against expansion with everything going on in Arizona unresolved.

Hell, I think Foley would be against expansion if there was a decent chance that Arizona gets sold for $300 tops in a year.

I think it is safe to assume that Foley looks at Vegas Hockey more of as a toy than an investment.

The key drama going on in the backrooms is Montreal is doing everything they can to deny Quebec getting a franchise but they can never admit that publicly. Right now the Habs control the francophone market except in the areas adjacent to Ottawa.

I believe Vegas WILL have a team in 2017-18

 

[Mightygoose]

I think it is safe to assume that Foley looks at Vegas Hockey more of as a toy than an investment.

The key drama going on in the backrooms is Montreal is doing everything they can to deny Quebec getting a franchise but they can never admit that publicly. Right now the Habs control the francophone market except in the areas adjacent to Ottawa.

I believe Vegas WILL have a team in 2017-18

If there are enough owners against expansion then how would Vegas get a team for 2017-18 unless they know there's a franchise or two on it's last legs.

Hopefully not too many deposits will be lost once June passes and Foley can wait it out another year if that's the case.

 

[powerstuck]

What I am hearing from people close to the Bruins is there are at least 8 owners who do not want to expand and that is all it takes to block it. There are probably at least 15 teams that would love the expansion cash grab but you need 75% of the clubs to agree.

The NBA is watching what the NHL does simply because if Bettman pulls off the $500M expansion fee then the NBA could dream of a billion

None of us knows what the Coyotes situation will be for 2017-18 but it certainly appears Glendale is done. I personally think the holdup here is the NHL does not want to approve Vegas and deny Quebec City because the backlash would be enormous.

I would pay big money to get a official list of teams against expansion. That way we could start the backlash sonner than later.

I'd be the least surprised person in the world if that was the case, but I've never thought this was an expansion. I think expansion is Plan B. To be honest, I'd be surprised if there was less than 8 teams against expansion with everything going on in Arizona unresolved.

Hell, I think Foley would be against expansion if there was a decent chance that Arizona gets sold for $300 tops in a year.

I get why Foley would prefer waiting if he knows he has the best chances at landing Coyotes at $300M...but all those NHL owners who want to increase their teams values, I don't see how they can sell one team for $300M and then expect to cash in on expansion elsewhere at $500M.

We've seen there are only two groups crazy enough to pay $500M. Foley and Quebecor. Everyone else...I doubt they would pay $300M for expansion.

And the league looks very very very professionnal dragging this process so long.

 

[BattleBorn]

I get while Foley would prefer waiting if he know he has the best chances at landing Coyotes at $300M...but all those NHL owners who want to increase their teams values, I don't see how they can sell one team for $300M and then expect to cash in on expansion elsewhere at $500M.

We've seen there are only two groups crazy enough to pay $500M. Foley and Quebecor. Everyone else...I doubt they would pay $300M for expansion.

And the league looks very very very professionnal dragging this process so long.

I've heard that the minority owners own a certain percentage that supports a $500MM price. However, that figure hasn't gone public so I'll leave it at that. The league is going to get a $500MM whether it's a sale/relocation fee or an expansion fee in my opinion.

For someone like Foley, I think a relocation means time. Less time building from the ground up, less time making moves to try to develop a core, less everything really. Time has got to be a major consideration considering Foley's goals for the team.

For me it always comes down to the idea that the $500MM has a chance to raise everyone's franchise value in the open market by controlling the potential owner market now. I can't see a scenario where a $500MM expansion or two is followed up by a $300MM sale a few years later. Once you take Foley and Quebecor out of the game you don't know who is lurking in the shadows for a potential relocation. Everyone loses leverage in that situation.

 

[Fugu]

What I am hearing from people close to the Bruins is there are at least 8 owners who do not want to expand and that is all it takes to block it. There are probably at least 15 teams that would love the expansion cash grab but you need 75% of the clubs to agree.

The NBA is watching what the NHL does simply because if Bettman pulls off the $500M expansion fee then the NBA could dream of a billion

None of us knows what the Coyotes situation will be for 2017-18 but it certainly appears Glendale is done. I personally think the holdup here is the NHL does not want to approve Vegas and deny Quebec City because the backlash would be enormous.

So who do you think are the 8?

Jacobs may be one, seeing he mentioned two cities that didn't have applications submitted.

I'd put Detroit in, definitely due to realignment being necessary at some point if they took QC, so they may decide "No" if it's just one team in the West, rather waiting for two when it's time.

After that, I think it may be the rest of the big money teams. They just see more revenue sharing and revenue transfer without much growth to the national pie.

 

[BattleBorn]

After that, I think it may be the rest of the big money teams. They just see more revenue sharing and revenue transfer without much growth to the national pie.

I'll start making calls to advocate for a switch from Nevada Beverage to Wirtz (or whatever they're called now) at T-MA.

 

[GordonGraham]

I personally think the holdup here is the NHL does not want to approve Vegas and deny Quebec City because the backlash would be enormous.

John Shannen said the same thing on Hockeycentral earlier this week, Vegas is in but the league is trying to find a way to say no to Quebec city without ruffling to many feathers

 

[PhillyWings]

but the league is trying to find a way to say no to Quebec city without ruffling to many feathers

Good freaking luck with that one.

 

[powerstuck]

John Shannen said the same thing on Hockeycentral earlier this week, Vegas is in but the league is trying to find a way to say no to Quebec city without ruffling to many feathers

I don't see why is NHL so scared of us.

I mean we're a small market per some influential NHL owners.
We're already in hockey country thus we don't grow the game.
We're deserved by Montreal.

So...why keep teasing up with dumb preseason games ?
And...why care about us ?
I mean its not because I and a few others would stop watching and spending cash on anything NHL related that its going to hurt their pocket.

If we mattered, they would have gave us a team already.

 

[Fenway]

So who do you think are the 8?

Jacobs may be one, seeing he mentioned two cities that didn't have applications submitted.

I'd put Detroit in, definitely due to realignment being necessary at some point if they took QC, so they may decide "No" if it's just one team in the West, rather waiting for two when it's time.

After that, I think it may be the rest of the big money teams. They just see more revenue sharing and revenue transfer without much growth to the national pie.

Boston, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Washington, Detroit and Chicago all leap out at me but from there Jacobs has some influence on Nashville, Columbus, Buffalo and Tampa because he has the concessions there,

Pittsburgh wants expansion as it would in theory increase the purchase price. One has to assume the same for Carolina. Islanders and Devils could use extra cash.

I can't see any of the Canadian teams publically saying no to Quebec but Geoff Molson and Bell Media would be very happy to continue to be the only francophone majority team.

We are pretty much at one minute to Midnight now - Bettman's annual state of the league address is roughly 2 weeks from now at Game 1 of the Final.

 

[BattleBorn]

...

We are pretty much at one minute to Midnight ...

I've been trying to think of a thread title for the next installment. Think we just found it.

 

[Llama19]

I've been trying to think of a thread title for the next installment. Think we just found it.

NHL to Vegas part VI: Defcon - Expansion or None

 

[BattleBorn]

NHL to Vegas part VI: Defcon - Expansion or None

Threat Level: Midnight.

 

[Killion]

Midnight Run... movie that really pushed De Niro over the top. From Star to Superstar.... Casino & all that followed....

 

[BattleBorn]

Midnight Run... movie that really pushed De Niro over the top. From Star to Superstar.... Casino & all that followed....

I've really got to watch more Deniro movies. I've been in a Casino/Goodfellas/Godfather rut since, well...forever.

 

[Killion]

I've really got to watch more Deniro movies. I've been in a Casino/Goodfellas/Godfather rut since, well...forever.

... ya, Charles Grodins terrific in Midnight Run as well.... my favorite De Niro flick though by far; Cape Fear... Very strange man... highly litigious.

 

[Fenway]

continue here



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