NHL Plus-Minus Data 1960-1967

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,271
2,808
The NHL has recently released full plus-minus data for the 1959-60 through 1966-67 seasons. I’ve taken the data and run it through some metrics I’ve previously used to analyze historical NHL plus-minus data.

The first thing that was apparent from the data was there were relatively few outliers in the plus-minus data, especially when examined over the full period. Players tended to post similar GF/GA ratios to the rest of their team, with significant differences only appearing for the very best players and units. Many of these same players would put up much better GF/GA ratios in the expansion NHL, suggesting that average team strength was significantly higher pre-expansion and it was harder for an individual to make a difference.

Overall scoring levels were lower than they would be for most seasons in the following decades, as was power play scoring. Power play scoring was also lower as a percentage of total scoring than it was in most of the following decades. 21% of goals were scored on the power play, which is similar to the last four NHL seasons and lower than most seasons in the 70s/80s/90s/00s.

Beginning with the forwards, here are the top even strength scorers for the full period.

Glossary of terms:
$ESP/70:
Even strength points per 70 games played, adjusted to a scoring level of 165 ESG per team per season (average for the 1960-67 period)
$ESGF/70: On-ice even strength goals for per 70 games played, adjusted to a scoring level of 165 ESG per team per season
$ESGA/70: On-ice even strength goals against per 70 games played, adjusted to a scoring level of 165 ESG per team per season
R-ON: GF/GA ratio at even strength while the player was on the ice (higher is better, 1 is average)
R-OFF: Team’s GF/GA ratio at even strength while the player was not on the ice. Higher values here indicate that the player played on a strong team, but there are also factors such as linemate strength, matchup responsibilities, and team depth at various positions
EV%: Percentage of team’s even-strength goals that the player was on the ice for. Higher values here indicate the player played more even strength ice time, played a higher-event game with higher rates of goals for and/or goals against while on the ice, or both.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Bobby Hull5345772531.361.2042%
Henri Richard5065566481.391.2336%
Stan Mikita5485062361.711.1133%
Gordie Howe5524766541.220.8238%
Andy Bathgate5364760601.010.8236%
Norm Ullman5494661650.950.9840%
Jean Beliveau4874655431.271.3031%
Frank Mahovlich5374660441.351.1734%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Bobby Hull and Henri Richard were clearly the top two even-strength scorers for the full 1959-60 to 1966-67 period.

When looking at a subset of the time period, three other players approached their scoring level at even strength. Stan Mikita for the six years from 1961-62 to 1966-67, Andy Bathgate for the five years from 1959-60 to 1963-64, and Frank Mahovlich for the four years from 1960-61 to 1963-64.

PlayerYears GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Bobby Hull1960-19675345772531.361.2042%
Henri Richard1960-19664415667461.451.2936%
Stan Mikita1962-19674135668421.641.1336%
Andy Bathgate1960-19643515670691.010.7441%
Frank Mahovlich1961-19642775569461.521.2037%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
All of the leading even strength scorers most likely received extra ice time at even strength, judging by their EV% numbers (the percentage of their team’s even strength GF and GA for which they were on the ice), whether through double shifting or shortened rotations. The possible exception is Jean Beliveau, who had a lower EV% than any of the other high scorers in this list.

All of the leading even-strength scorers had higher on-ice goal ratios (R-ON) than off-ice goal ratios, with the exception of Norm Ullman. Using these goal ratios to evaluate individual players is tricky, especially in the context of a strong and deep Original Six NHL. Factors such as matchup responsibilities against opposing top lines and strength of linemates could outweigh the impact of the individual player. However, it is clear that these top scorers tended to be positive forces for their teams on the ice, to say the least.

Stan Mikita was the forward with the most positive plus-minus ratio over this time period. His outstanding offensive and defensive play was undoubtedly extremely important to his team. However, he probably benefited from playing on a separate line from Bobby Hull, he had strong linemates in Kenny Wharram and Doug Mohns, and it’s not clear what kind of matchup responsibilities he had compared to, say, Henri Richard.

Norm Ullman had a high number of GA compared to the rest of this group. Much of this difference was likely because he played big minutes on a Detroit team without forward depth and didn’t have a star linemate for most of the time.

I hope everyone realizes just how valuable Henri Richard was to the Montreal Canadiens at this time. He was much more than just a “second line centre who was lucky to play on great teams”. In fact, he was clearly the #1 centre and #1 forward on Montreal at even strength and scored as much as any player in the league in this role. Only the fact that he was not featured on the power play kept him from putting up bigger scoring numbers.

Here is the next group of top even strength scorers.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Johnny Bucyk5144458740.780.6838%
Phil Esposito2354358401.461.2731%
Bernie Geoffrion3494355421.301.3030%
Marcel Bonin1574261361.671.2830%
Dave Keon4724154421.281.2332%
Dean Prentice5004155600.920.7934%
Murray Oliver5294151680.750.7134%
Alex Delvecchio5584160581.030.9137%
Dickie Moore2814054331.611.2927%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Some of this group almost certainly played higher than usual ice time, starting with Johnny Bucyk and Alex Delvecchio. Noe the presence of Phil Esposito here, even before his breakout in Boston. Dickie Moore, even past his prime and dealing with injuries, was a strong even-strength player. The group shown below here, the next tier of even strength scorers, were all in important roles at even strength and were solid scorers.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Red Kelly4703957461.231.2534%
Bob Pulford5223951471.101.2632%
Kenny Wharram5173957341.661.1630%
Rod Gilbert3103848570.850.7231%
Ralph Backstrom5453846341.321.2426%
Leo Labine1033849620.780.8233%
Bill Hay5063748431.101.2931%
Claude Provost5283752431.211.3531%
Vic Stasiuk2333753511.040.7732%
Doug Mohns1813760381.571.2631%
Bobby Rousseau4213752391.331.2329%
Don McKenney4163649550.890.7530%
Phil Goyette4773645431.050.8926%
Camille Henry3603543520.830.7928%
Tommy Williams2973547650.720.7132%
Bronco Horvath2343543460.920.9227%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And the next group of even strength scorers, all playing a regular shift. I’ll cut it off after this group.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
John Ferguson2603451431.191.1631%
Gilles Tremblay3943455391.401.2630%
George Armstrong5233450391.291.1829%
Ron Ellis2003349451.101.2432%
Bob Nevin4583353471.110.9731%
Chico Maki3383350371.331.2829%
Floyd Smith2903247471.011.0930%
Ab McDonald3803245341.351.0326%
Tod Sloan1363135281.261.1923%
Ron Murphy4483140420.961.2428%
Earl Ingarfield4923141570.710.8429%
Jean Ratelle2583141560.720.7628%
Bert Olmstead1763146461.001.3829%
Claude Larose2273144421.041.1528%
Murray Balfour3013144411.081.2430%
Allan Johnson1033038500.760.8628%
Dick Duff5033044431.021.1728%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Next we’ll look at the top power play scorers on a rate basis in the 1959-60-1966-67 time period.

Glossary of terms:
$PPP/70:
Power play points per 70 games played, adjusted to a scoring level of 45 PPG per team per season (average for the 1960-67 period)
PP%: Percentage of team’s power play goals that the player was on the ice for. Higher values here indicate the player played more power play time, or that the team was more successful while he was on the ice. For the best players who play on their team’s first unit, usually both are the case.
TeamPP+: Strength of team’s power play compared to league average, weighted per season by the size of the player’s PP role. 1 is average, values above 1 indicate an above-average power play, values below 1 indicate a below-average power play. Note that there is no data on PP opportunities pre-1968, so the team strength calculations are based solely on goals, not percentages.

Player GP $ESP/70 EV% $PPP/70 PP% TmPP+
Bernie Geoffrion3494330%3091%1.17
Jean Beliveau4874631%2971%1.21
Gordie Howe5524738%2886%1.02
Stan Mikita5485033%2572%1.15
Bobby Hull5345742%2478%1.13
Yvan Cournoyer194109%2270%1.26
Andy Bathgate5364736%2279%0.92
Bronco Horvath2343527%2163%0.90
Camille Henry3603528%2171%0.97
Norm Ullman5494640%2058%1.01
Alex Delvecchio5584137%2080%1.02
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The Montreal duo of Bernie Geoffrion and Jean Beliveau tops the list here. Yvan Cournoyer of the Canadiens also appears, as a powerplay specialist for this part of his career. There’s also Hull and Mikita from Chicago, Howe, Ullman, and Delvecchio from Detroit, and powerplay aces Andy Bathgate, Bronco Horvath, and Camille Henry. Only Toronto fails to place a player on this list, as Punch Imlach spread the power play ice time around more than any other NHL coach of his time.

Player GP $ESP/70 EV% $PPP/70 PP% TmPP+
Bert Olmstead1763129%1959%0.92
Dickie Moore2814027%1948%1.33
Vic Stasiuk2333732%1869%0.92
Cliff Pennington962623%1877%0.84
Bobby Rousseau4213729%1754%1.19
Frank Mahovlich5374634%1764%0.92
Doug Mohns1813731%1762%1.25
Bill Hay5063731%1653%1.04
Johnny Bucyk5144438%1667%0.70
Don McKenney4163630%1557%0.86
Rod Gilbert3103831%1558%0.97
Parker MacDonald3902729%1550%1.12
Dave Keon4724132%1450%0.90
Marcel Bonin1574230%1341%1.48
Red Kelly4703934%1362%0.92
Henri Richard5065536%1340%1.24
Murray Oliver5294134%1352%0.68
Andy Hebenton3502831%1353%0.86
Kenny Wharram5173930%1240%1.19
Dean Prentice5004134%1252%0.77
Bob Nevin4583331%1248%0.94
Floyd Smith2903230%1246%1.07
Phil Goyette4773626%1134%1.01
Gilles Tremblay3943430%1137%1.11
Ab McDonald3803226%1145%0.96
George Armstrong5233429%1144%0.92
Red Sullivan1402728%1045%0.81
Ron Ellis2003332%1030%0.95
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The next tier here includes basically the rest of the forwards with a significant powerplay role.

Here are the leading forward penalty killers on a usage rate basis.

Glossary of terms:
$SHP/70:
Power play points per 70 games played, adjusted to a scoring level of 6 SHG per team per season (average for the 1960-67 period)
SH%: Percentage of team’s power play goals that the player was on the ice for. Higher values here indicate the player played more shorthanded time. It could also indicate that the team was less successful on a rate basis while he was on the ice – but over several seasons, ineffective penalty killers will usually be removed from the penalty kill unit by the coach. Additionally, the best penalty killers will usually face opposing first units and kill 3-on-5s, which are both situations where power play goals are more likely to be scored. So a high SH% will generally indicate a player who has played high ice time and difficult situations on the PK over several seasons.
TeamSH+: Strength of team’s penalty kill compared to league average, weighted per season by the size of the player’s SH role. 1 is average, values below 1 indicate an above-average penalty kill, values above 1 indicate a below-average penalty kill. Note that there is no data on PP opportunities pre-1968, so the team strength calculations are based solely on goals, not percentages, and team discipline in not taking penalties may also play a role here.

Player GP EV% PP% $SHP/70 SH% TmSH+
Earl Balfour1387%0%374%1.22
Donnie Marshall54926%27%471%0.89
Charlie Burns26226%3%667%1.14
Jerry Toppazzini33625%44%560%1.14
Ed Westfall19730%24%256%1.23
Fleming Mackell4725%19%455%1.10
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Earl Balfour was a penalty killing specialist for the Hawks who rarely played at even strength. All things considered, Donnie Marshall was probably the leading penalty killing forward of the decade, playing big minutes in the role first for Montreal and then New York. Ed Westfall’s numbers here include only his years at forward – I estimate he played D from 62-64 and then F from 65-67, based on his scoring numbers and on-ice goal numbers.

Here is the next tier.

Player GP EV% PP% $SHP/70 SH% TmSH+
Bob Pulford52232%20%549%0.91
Ken Schinkel26520%8%247%0.84
Ron Stewart49721%28%245%0.99
Val Fonteyne47415%12%145%1.00
Reg Fleming45821%10%244%1.11
Eric Nesterenko52529%17%342%0.91
Red Berenson16617%4%340%0.93
Johnny Wilson16921%16%340%0.93
Forbes Kennedy22122%5%235%1.16
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Although the NHL lists Reg Fleming as D, I think he must have played mostly forward, based on his scoring numbers (too high for a defender) and his on-ice goal numbers at even strength (21% EV% would be extremely low for a defenceman).

Moving on to defencemen, we’ll start with the leading defencemen based on their even strength role. The top defencemen in EV%.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Red Kelly502182970.850.9058%
Pierre Pilote5173090631.431.1452%
Jim Morrison891974890.830.9051%
Doug Barkley2472286701.231.0050%
Doug Harvey2752087771.120.9850%
Pat Stapleton2152078900.870.9849%
Tim Horton5472280691.171.2749%
Harry Howell5511876870.870.7348%
Bill Gadsby4532071810.881.0248%
Marcel Pronovost5251674721.030.9448%
Jacques Laperriere2561675681.101.2547%
Terry Harper2711482611.351.1347%
Moose Vasko4551774611.221.2546%
J.C. Tremblay4381979631.241.2846%
Leo Boivin5172268920.730.7346%
Allan Stanley4992276631.201.2246%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Red Kelly’s numbers here are based on only his partial season in Detroit, his last as a defenceman. Pierre Pilote had the highest EV% of any defenceman who played the full time. He also had the best plus-minus ratio of any defenceman, was the leading scorer at even strength for defencemen, and played major roles on both special teams. It’s clear that he was the leading defenceman in the NHL for this time period.

You could say this is basically the list of top-pairing defencemen for the time period. The next list shows the next tier of defencemen in EV%, what we might call second pairing defencemen.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Bob Woytowich1541659930.640.8445%
Gilles Marotte1181455930.600.8645%
Larry Cahan1921463900.700.8545%
Tom Johnson3591776701.091.2244%
Bobby Orr612677701.090.5844%
Carl Brewer3822179541.471.1544%
Bob Baun4641673591.231.2143%
Lou Fontinato2341178641.221.0743%
Dollard St. Laurent2001562581.061.3243%
Bob Armstrong1321362840.740.8043%
Jim Nielsen3271659850.700.8142%
Ted Green3501561860.700.7142%
Doug Mohns3382360880.680.7442%
Bert Marshall1181079561.400.9041%
Larry Hillman1991667591.131.2541%
Ted Harris1901270541.301.0641%
Al Langlois4491570641.090.9440%
Fern Flaman1221663740.860.7840%
Jack Evans276856551.011.3840%
Gary Bergman1892167621.081.0339%
John Hanna1131263700.900.8039%
Jean-Guy Talbot5391869541.281.3339%
Warren Godfrey2671458670.870.7739%
Doug Jarrett1822271501.411.3438%
Matt Ravlich1851458541.081.3936%
Bob McCord1311149700.700.8535%
Al MacNeil2601562421.491.1635%
Ed Westfall1661256700.800.5934%
Don Awrey1371443730.590.7734%
Dallas Smith116742670.620.7232%
Rod Seiling1351642640.650.6630%
Howie Young2061350570.890.7430%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Note Bobby Orr’s presence toward the top of the list. Although he was only an 18-year old rookie, he was still a plus player on a weak Boston team against very strong competition, showing flashes of his future dominance.

Carl Brewer had very good plus-minus numbers. He played on Toronto's second pairing with Bobby Baun, and most likely faced weaker competition than the Stanley-Horton pairing, but even so his numbers are still very impressive. Having an two-way ace like Brewer on their second pairing was undoubtedly a major reason that Toronto was able to win three Stanley Cups in the early 60s.

Finally, here are the defencemen who played something less than a regular role at even strength.

Player GP $ESP/70 $ESGF/70 $ESGA/70 R-ON R-OFF EV%
Aut Erickson160643520.830.8028%
Irv Spencer2001240510.770.8026%
Kent Douglas244742351.201.1926%
Al Arbour176840301.351.3024%
Bryan Watson162415240.631.1612%
Bob Turner253622221.001.3914%
Jimmy Roberts218810120.881.187%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The bottom three of Watson, Turner, and Roberts were all penalty killing specialists for Toe Blake’s Montreal Canadiens.

Kent Douglas was a powerplay specialist for Toronto.

Here are the leading defencemen on the power play for this time.

Player GP $ESP/70 EV% $PPP/70 PP% TmPP+
Bobby Orr612644%1895%0.71
Pierre Pilote5173052%1777%1.07
Doug Harvey2752050%1666%1.25
Doug Mohns3382342%1669%0.78
Jacques Laperriere2561647%1475%1.20
Kent Douglas244726%1275%1.00
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Most teams played 4 forwards on the power play in the 60s. Some teams played 5, like Detroit did with Howe and Delvecchio at the points. The offensive defenceman revolution had not yet arrived, and relatively few defencemen played a big role on their team’s power play.

Here are the best of the rest for defencemen on the power play.

Player GP $ESP/70 EV% $PPP/70 PP% TmPP+
Bill Gadsby4532048%842%0.91
Harry Howell5511848%846%0.96
Rod Seiling1351630%838%1.12
Jim Morrison891951%746%0.87
Doug Barkley2472250%736%1.08
Gilles Marotte1181445%741%0.71
Larry Hillman1991641%744%0.96
Tim Horton5472249%736%0.90
Ted Green3501542%742%0.57
J.C. Tremblay4381946%625%1.19
Allan Stanley4992246%529%0.91
Pat Stapleton2152049%535%1.16
Irv Spencer2001226%516%0.88
Jim Nielsen3271642%530%0.97
Jean-Guy Talbot5391839%520%1.15
Tom Johnson3591744%423%1.19
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And finally, the top penalty killing defencemen.

Player GP EV% $SHP/70 SH% TmSH+
Jimmy Roberts2187%187%0.88
Jacques Laperriere25647%180%0.90
Tom Johnson35944%177%0.90
Marcel Pronovost52548%171%0.95
Bob Turner25314%269%0.96
Doug Harvey27550%169%0.80
J.C. Tremblay43846%068%0.86
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Six of the seven most used defencemen on the PK were Montreal players. It’s clear that Toe Blake liked to give his players specific roles and then play them heavily in those roles, especially on the penalty kill. His leading defenders such as Laperriere, Johnson, Harvey, and Tremblay played most of the shorthanded minutes on the back end, and spare defencemen Turner and Roberts played most of the forward minutes when killing penalties. Marcel Pronovost was the sole non-Montreal defenceman to exceed 60% in SH%.

Player GP EV% $SHP/70 SH% TmSH+
Bob McCord13135%060%1.17
Harry Howell55148%059%1.07
Bob Armstrong13243%159%1.07
Bill Gadsby45348%158%1.02
Moose Vasko45546%156%1.03
Bobby Orr6144%456%1.31
Red Kelly5058%256%0.61
Lou Fontinato23443%155%1.07
Tim Horton54749%154%0.93
Allan Stanley49946%153%0.90
Warren Godfrey26739%152%0.86
Pierre Pilote51752%150%0.99
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The next table shows the rest of the first unit PKers in the league among defencemen. Most of them were also leading even strength defencemen.

Player GP EV% $SHP/70 SH% TmSH+
Bryan Watson16212%148%0.95
Doug Jarrett18238%247%0.74
Leo Boivin51746%147%1.11
Jack Evans27640%146%1.16
Doug Barkley24750%144%0.97
Fern Flaman12240%043%1.04
Bob Baun46443%042%0.93
Matt Ravlich18536%142%0.73
Ted Green35042%042%1.18
Jim Nielsen32742%041%1.01
Bob Woytowich15445%141%1.28
Larry Hillman19941%140%0.96
Al Langlois44940%039%0.97
Gilles Marotte11845%139%1.31
Gary Bergman18939%139%1.01
Bert Marshall11841%138%0.99
Carl Brewer38244%138%0.82
Al MacNeil26035%037%0.93
Terry Harper27147%037%0.94
John Hanna11339%136%1.37
Dollard St. Laurent20043%136%1.14
Larry Cahan19245%035%0.90
Doug Mohns33842%033%1.14
Jean-Guy Talbot53939%132%0.86
Aut Erickson16028%031%1.01
Ted Harris19041%031%0.90
Jim Morrison8951%030%0.85
Pat Stapleton21549%029%0.97
Kent Douglas24426%127%0.87
Al Arbour17624%026%1.10
Dallas Smith11632%019%1.12
Rod Seiling13530%018%1.01
Don Awrey13734%016%1.25
Ed Westfall16634%016%1.19
Howie Young20630%010%1.08
Irv Spencer20026%05%1.22
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This last table shows the SH% numbers for the rest of the defencemen. Most of them had SH% numbers that indicate at least a regular role on the penalty kill, if not on the first unit. A handful of Boston, New York, and Detroit defencemen at the bottom had limited time on the penalty kill. Oddly enough, one of them was Ed Westfall, who rarely killed penalties in his first three seasons as a defencemen, and then became of the great penalty killing forwards of all time.
 
Last edited:

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
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Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Great job overpass. Especially interesting is the Henri Richard data which confirmed the strong positive opinions of the player. Especially given that the Canadiens roled four lines during this period. which limited RS TOI. Toronto also roled four lines. The other teams tended to extra shift star players.

A few questions, comments. The data is broken down home and away. Would it be viable to replicate the data with a home and away breakdown?

Another interesting aspect is that not all players are properly slotted by position. You mentioned Reg Fleming. Doug Mohns especially with Boston moved back and forth between defence and forward. Chicago, mainly a forward. You mention how Westfall evolved.

Others like Irv Spencer, Bryan Watson, Gerry Odrowski, the Canadiens group of Bob Turner, Jim Roberts, Jean-Guy Talbot, Bryan Watson, besides the PK as a forward also saw a bit of time up front as forwards at ES. Also usage varied when they changed teams.
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
18,103
12,759
Very nice information. Richard and Mikita really stand out here. The praise for young Orr (Howell's Norris quote, Orr's placement in ranking top players from the 1960s) makes more sense now as well.
 
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The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
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Tokyo, Japan
It's nice to finally see Bobby Orr's plus/minus from his rookie season (he was +1 in 61 games). 15 of his 41 points were on the power-play, a similar ratio to what he would maintain throughout his best seasons.

Given that the Bruins as a whole that year scored 182 goals while allowing 253 against, Orr's plus/minus that rookie season looks pretty good. Here's how the top Bruins' scorers managed in 1966-67:

-5 Bucyk (he'd been -43 in 1961-62)
-16 Martin
+1 Orr
-35 McKenzie (ouch!)
+1 Westfall
-18 Oliver (he'd been -44 in 1961-62)
-15 Connelly
-12 Schock

And the Bruins' defencemen:
+1 Orr
-10 Green
-41 Marotte (ouch!)
-7 Watson
-23 Woytowich
-11 Smith (only 32 games played)
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,271
2,808
Great job overpass. Especially interesting is the Henri Richard data which confirmed the strong positive opinions of the player. Especially given that the Canadiens roled four lines during this period. which limited RS TOI. Toronto also roled four lines. The other teams tended to extra shift star players.

A few questions, comments. The data is broken down home and away. Would it be viable to replicate the data with a home and away breakdown?

Another interesting aspect is that not all players are properly slotted by position. You mentioned Reg Fleming. Doug Mohns especially with Boston moved back and forth between defence and forward. Chicago, mainly a forward. You mention how Westfall evolved.

Others like Irv Spencer, Bryan Watson, Gerry Odrowski, the Canadiens group of Bob Turner, Jim Roberts, Jean-Guy Talbot, Bryan Watson, besides the PK as a forward also saw a bit of time up front as forwards at ES. Also usage varied when they changed teams.

I treated Doug Mohns as forward while in Chicago and defence while in Boston. I'm sure that choice was an oversimplification.

While the home and away plus-minus numbers are listed for players, unfortunately the component numbers are not separated into home and road numbers, so most of the metrics presented here cannot be calculated for home games and road games separately.

Here are the home/road plus-minus numbers for some of the leading forwards and defencemen of this period, sorted by team. See the column on the right (Difference/70), which is the plus-minus difference between home and road, per 70 games.

Of the forwards, a few things stand out. Ralph Backstrom had the best road plus-minus of any Montreal forward, while Henri Richard had a much larger split between his home/road. Andy Bathgate and Dean Prentice were plus players at home and had a large split between their home/road plus-minus, while the other Ranger forwards had a similar road plus-minus but were much lower at home. In general the Rangers seem to have a lower gap between their home and road plus-minus. Possibly a lower home-ice advantage due to the busy schedule at Madison Square Garden?

On defence, there was a general trend for the better offensive defencemen to have larger home/road splits. Doug Mohns, Pierre Pilote, Marcel Pronovost, and J.C. Tremblay had particularly high splits.

I've done this type of analysis before for plus-minus data from 1987-88 and later, and Mario Lemieux was the player with the largest split between his home plus-minus and road plus-minus per game for that time period.

Forwards
TeamPlayerGP$ESP/S$ESGF/S$ESGA/SR-ONR-OFFEV%Home +/-Road +/-Difference/70
BOSJohnny Bucyk5144458740.780.6838%-31-12212
BOSTommy Williams2973547650.720.7132%-15-6512
BOSDon McKenney2494052660.780.6833%-19-5510
BOSMurray Oliver4294353740.720.6936%-48-998
CHIMurray Balfour2863245401.131.2631%48-3320
CHIStan Mikita5485062361.711.1133%1561818
CHIBobby Hull5345772531.361.2042%1401417
CHIKenny Wharram5173957341.661.1630%1322015
CHIBill Hay5063748431.101.2931%56-3713
CHIPhil Esposito2354358401.461.2731%471510
CHIChico Maki3383350371.331.2829%46176
DETGordie Howe5524766541.220.8238%102-2816
DETFloyd Smith2903247471.011.0930%22-3514
DETNorm Ullman5494661650.950.9840%33-6913
DETAlex Delvecchio5584160581.030.9137%48-5513
MTLHenri Richard5065566481.391.2336%119-117
MTLJohn Ferguson2603451431.191.1631%36-1313
MTLBernie Geoffrion2914557421.351.3731%47-713
MTLJean Beliveau4874655431.271.3031%66-1411
MTLClaude Provost5283752431.211.3531%74-811
MTLBobby Rousseau4213752391.331.2329%6269
MTLGilles Tremblay3943455391.401.2630%68179
MTLRalph Backstrom5453846341.321.2426%57254
MTLDickie Moore2434560351.711.2829%42342
NYRAndy Bathgate3365669700.990.7341%37-6521
NYRDean Prentice2434664621.040.7538%32-3118
NYREarl Ingarfield4923141570.710.8429%-24-9310
NYRPhil Goyette2494456560.990.6833%10-219
NYRJean Ratelle2583141560.720.7628%-17-427
NYRCamille Henry3383744530.840.7828%-18-466
NYRRod Gilbert3103848570.850.7231%-16-354
TORBob Nevin2443557411.401.2931%60-318
TORFrank Mahovlich5374660441.351.1734%101-714
TORDave Keon4724154421.281.2332%81-513
TORGeorge Armstrong5233450391.291.1829%87-112
TORBob Pulford5223951471.101.2632%71-1211
TORRed Kelly4703957461.231.2534%63-410
TORDick Duff3063146391.191.2227%37-510
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Defencemen
TeamPlayerGP$ESP/S$ESGF/S$ESGA/SR-ONR-OFFEV%Home +/-Road +/-Difference/70
BOSDoug Mohns3382360880.680.7442%14-119280.92
BOSLeo Boivin4321968920.740.6946%-11-158241.08
BOSTed Green3501561860.700.7142%-19-103170.99
CHIPierre Pilote5173090631.431.1452%18012231.26
CHIMoose Vasko4551774611.221.2546%105-2160.97
CHIJack Evans276856551.011.3840%27-14100.74
DETMarcel Pronovost4131675751.000.9048%83-67251.11
DETBill Gadsby3232074790.941.0750%38-49190.87
DETDoug Barkley2472286701.231.0050%506121.23
DETWarren Godfrey2011565680.950.7942%20-15121.21
MTLJ.C. Tremblay4381979631.241.2846%121-10210.97
MTLJacques Laperriere2561675681.101.2547%31-11110.88
MTLJean-Guy Talbot5391869541.281.3339%10418110.96
MTLTom Johnson2381788661.321.4348%582890.93
MTLTerry Harper2711482611.351.1347%543351.19
NYRHarry Howell5511876870.870.7348%6-97131.20
NYRJim Nielsen3271659850.700.8142%-39-7470.87
TORTim Horton5472280691.171.2749%126-14180.92
TORCarl Brewer3822179541.471.1544%12430171.28
TORBob Baun4641673591.231.2143%110-2171.02
TORAllan Stanley4992276631.201.2246%108-2150.99
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,779
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
It's nice to finally see Bobby Orr's plus/minus from his rookie season (he was +1 in 61 games). 15 of his 41 points were on the power-play, a similar ratio to what he would maintain throughout his best seasons.

Given that the Bruins as a whole that year scored 182 goals while allowing 253 against, Orr's plus/minus that rookie season looks pretty good. Here's how the top Bruins' scorers managed in 1966-67:

-5 Bucyk (he'd been -43 in 1961-62)
-16 Martin
+1 Orr
-35 McKenzie (ouch!)
+1 Westfall
-18 Oliver (he'd been -44 in 1961-62)
-15 Connelly
-12 Schock

And the Bruins' defencemen:
+1 Orr
-10 Green
-41 Marotte (ouch!)
-7 Watson
-23 Woytowich
-11 Smith (only 32 games played)

Actually Orr was - 8 at home and +9 on the road another example of how he was constrained on the smaller Boston rink.
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,779
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
I treated Doug Mohns as forward while in Chicago and defence while in Boston. I'm sure that choice was an oversimplification.

While the home and away plus-minus numbers are listed for players, unfortunately the component numbers are not separated into home and road numbers, so most of the metrics presented here cannot be calculated for home games and road games separately.

Here are the home/road plus-minus numbers for some of the leading forwards and defencemen of this period, sorted by team. See the column on the right (Difference/70), which is the plus-minus difference between home and road, per 70 games.

Of the forwards, a few things stand out. Ralph Backstrom had the best road plus-minus of any Montreal forward, while Henri Richard had a much larger split between his home/road. Andy Bathgate and Dean Prentice were plus players at home and had a large split between their home/road plus-minus, while the other Ranger forwards had a similar road plus-minus but were much lower at home. In general the Rangers seem to have a lower gap between their home and road plus-minus. Possibly a lower home-ice advantage due to the busy schedule at Madison Square Garden?

On defence, there was a general trend for the better offensive defencemen to have larger home/road splits. Doug Mohns, Pierre Pilote, Marcel Pronovost, and J.C. Tremblay had particularly high splits.

I've done this type of analysis before for plus-minus data from 1987-88 and later, and Mario Lemieux was the player with the largest split between his home plus-minus and road plus-minus per game for that time period.

Forwards
TeamPlayerGP$ESP/S$ESGF/S$ESGA/SR-ONR-OFFEV%Home +/-Road +/-Difference/70
BOSJohnny Bucyk5144458740.780.6838%-31-12212
BOSTommy Williams2973547650.720.7132%-15-6512
BOSDon McKenney2494052660.780.6833%-19-5510
BOSMurray Oliver4294353740.720.6936%-48-998
CHIMurray Balfour2863245401.131.2631%48-3320
CHIStan Mikita5485062361.711.1133%1561818
CHIBobby Hull5345772531.361.2042%1401417
CHIKenny Wharram5173957341.661.1630%1322015
CHIBill Hay5063748431.101.2931%56-3713
CHIPhil Esposito2354358401.461.2731%471510
CHIChico Maki3383350371.331.2829%46176
DETGordie Howe5524766541.220.8238%102-2816
DETFloyd Smith2903247471.011.0930%22-3514
DETNorm Ullman5494661650.950.9840%33-6913
DETAlex Delvecchio5584160581.030.9137%48-5513
MTLHenri Richard5065566481.391.2336%119-117
MTLJohn Ferguson2603451431.191.1631%36-1313
MTLBernie Geoffrion2914557421.351.3731%47-713
MTLJean Beliveau4874655431.271.3031%66-1411
MTLClaude Provost5283752431.211.3531%74-811
MTLBobby Rousseau4213752391.331.2329%6269
MTLGilles Tremblay3943455391.401.2630%68179
MTLRalph Backstrom5453846341.321.2426%57254
MTLDickie Moore2434560351.711.2829%42342
NYRAndy Bathgate3365669700.990.7341%37-6521
NYRDean Prentice2434664621.040.7538%32-3118
NYREarl Ingarfield4923141570.710.8429%-24-9310
NYRPhil Goyette2494456560.990.6833%10-219
NYRJean Ratelle2583141560.720.7628%-17-427
NYRCamille Henry3383744530.840.7828%-18-466
NYRRod Gilbert3103848570.850.7231%-16-354
TORBob Nevin2443557411.401.2931%60-318
TORFrank Mahovlich5374660441.351.1734%101-714
TORDave Keon4724154421.281.2332%81-513
TORGeorge Armstrong5233450391.291.1829%87-112
TORBob Pulford5223951471.101.2632%71-1211
TORRed Kelly4703957461.231.2534%63-410
TORDick Duff3063146391.191.2227%37-510
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Defencemen
TeamPlayerGP$ESP/S$ESGF/S$ESGA/SR-ONR-OFFEV%Home +/-Road +/-Difference/70
BOSDoug Mohns3382360880.680.7442%14-119280.92
BOSLeo Boivin4321968920.740.6946%-11-158241.08
BOSTed Green3501561860.700.7142%-19-103170.99
CHIPierre Pilote5173090631.431.1452%18012231.26
CHIMoose Vasko4551774611.221.2546%105-2160.97
CHIJack Evans276856551.011.3840%27-14100.74
DETMarcel Pronovost4131675751.000.9048%83-67251.11
DETBill Gadsby3232074790.941.0750%38-49190.87
DETDoug Barkley2472286701.231.0050%506121.23
DETWarren Godfrey2011565680.950.7942%20-15121.21
MTLJ.C. Tremblay4381979631.241.2846%121-10210.97
MTLJacques Laperriere2561675681.101.2547%31-11110.88
MTLJean-Guy Talbot5391869541.281.3339%10418110.96
MTLTom Johnson2381788661.321.4348%582890.93
MTLTerry Harper2711482611.351.1347%543351.19
NYRHarry Howell5511876870.870.7348%6-97131.20
NYRJim Nielsen3271659850.700.8142%-39-7470.87
TORTim Horton5472280691.171.2749%126-14180.92
TORCarl Brewer3822179541.471.1544%12430171.28
TORBob Baun4641673591.231.2143%110-2171.02
TORAllan Stanley4992276631.201.2246%108-2150.99
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Excellent work. Still a question of waiting for the separated component numbers to be released. Obviously they are around.

The Ralph Backstrom observation is noteworthy. Reflects the importance of depth for Toronto and Montreal given that they always had the Sunday road game at the end of a 3 game in 4 night string or a 4 in 5. Also goes to match-ups and how the PK could be used not only to kill penalties but set-up the defensive match-ups.

Just like with Red Kelly, I sense that a clearer picture of how Doug Mohns was used in Boston will emerge.

Another noteworthy feature is the explanation of the abilities of the likes of Murray Oliver, the depth Toronto forwards and the second pairing d-men.
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,246
15,842
Tokyo, Japan
But the team did not play better on the road, 7-22-6 versus 10-21-4 at home. Plus on the road they had an 11-2 loss in Montreal.
Okay.

Anyway, I don't buy the "Orr was limited on the smaller ice surface" bit. If we could find some kind of statistical evidence of this, I'd be surprised. The Bruins of the post-expansion era have a long history of players who put up career numbers in Boston and couldn't replicate those numbers elsewhere.
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,779
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Wow, Bobby Orr's R:eek:n and off as an 18-year old rookie. Outstanding.

Mikita's on and off numbers are standout as well, but he was probably the best all-around forward of the decade, so that shouldn't surprise anyone.

We also get indications about the strength of the Toronto top four d-men, the difference between a Tom Johnson and Bill Gadsby which may have had a bearing on the 1959 Norris that Johnson won, and the impact of the Red Wings losing Doug Barkley to a career ending injury. Lou Fontinato also gets a few points.
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,271
2,808
Here are a couple more tables. These ones show the same metrics over the same time period for playoff games only. I've cut off the numbers at a minimum of 40 games played.

Keep in mind for these numbers were compiled against a stronger class of opponent, and specific matchups would have influenced these numbers more than the regular season numbers.

Forwards
PlayerSum of GPSum of $ESP/GSum of $ESGF/GSum of $ESGA/GR-ONR-OFFEV%PP%$PPP/GTmPP+SH%TmSH+$SHP/G
George Armstrong700.410.670.391.710.8729%48%0.200.8725%0.620.05
Ralph Backstrom620.400.450.530.841.3028%6%0.041.180%N/A0.00
Murray Balfour400.360.550.551.000.9428%18%0.141.050%N/A0.00
Dave Balon410.350.590.411.431.0724%1%0.001.542%1.500.00
Jean Beliveau630.480.540.351.531.0625%76%0.431.030%N/A0.00
Alex Delvecchio610.480.700.641.090.7833%61%0.451.198%0.650.02
Dick Duff700.410.600.441.351.0529%38%0.241.093%0.500.00
John Ferguson400.290.370.410.891.3223%40%0.081.040%N/A0.00
Val Fonteyne450.140.210.380.550.9915%13%0.101.1040%0.990.03
Billy Harris450.140.140.150.931.117%15%0.070.920%N/A0.00
Bill Hay670.330.490.540.911.0028%45%0.191.0728%1.430.01
Gordie Howe610.600.810.621.310.7336%87%0.631.2124%0.880.03
Bobby Hull650.740.860.661.300.8340%83%0.440.8510%1.670.01
Red Kelly700.480.590.670.881.1635%75%0.350.864%0.430.02
Dave Keon630.440.630.381.660.9529%53%0.190.8330%0.630.07
Parker MacDonald520.080.220.470.471.0616%34%0.241.270%N/A0.00
Bruce MacGregor520.320.470.510.910.9424%19%0.121.1827%0.900.01
Frank Mahovlich720.420.550.660.831.2133%51%0.270.790%N/A0.00
Ab McDonald430.480.690.352.000.8925%45%0.221.280%N/A0.00
Stan Mikita660.630.780.611.280.8338%65%0.390.8611%1.380.01
Eric Nesterenko660.340.520.521.000.9628%8%0.021.2737%1.480.04
Claude Provost620.380.580.361.631.0327%16%0.091.3834%0.680.00
Bob Pulford730.470.590.600.981.1234%12%0.051.1843%0.670.04
Henri Richard580.620.670.531.271.0934%28%0.211.120%N/A0.00
Bobby Rousseau510.250.410.480.861.0526%64%0.381.0610%0.610.01
Eddie Shack530.140.250.330.751.2016%7%0.020.510%N/A0.00
Floyd Smith440.280.390.650.601.1026%47%0.261.320%N/A0.00
Ron Stewart560.260.360.430.851.2521%18%0.080.9725%0.630.00
Norm Ullman610.660.780.900.870.9342%66%0.481.2637%0.930.02
Kenny Wharram650.470.650.531.240.8831%28%0.120.701%1.350.00
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The plus-minus R-ON and R-OFF splits were larger in the playoffs than in the regular season for many players. See Dave Keon and George Armstrong from Toronto, Claude Provost and Jean Beliveau from Montreal, and several others. Possibly because there were fewer games played than in the regular season and a good series or two could really move the numbers.

The Chicago and Detroit stars (Hull, Mikita, Howe) were still plus players in the playoffs, but their teams really struggled at even strength when they were off the ice.

There's one player I want to pick on here. Eddie Shack. In the playoffs and in the regular season, he was a minus player who played a relatively small role at even strength. He rarely played on the power play and didn't kill penalties. What exactly did he do to keep a job with the Leafs, a strong team, for eight seasons? Why Shack and not Jim Pappin, Gerry Ehman, or Dick Gamble?

Defencemen
PlayerSum of GPSum of $ESP/GSum of $ESGF/GSum of $ESGA/GR-ONR-OFFEV%PP%$PPP/GTmPP+SH%TmSH+$SHP/G
Bob Baun690.200.850.631.370.9241%1%0.001.2340%0.600.00
Carl Brewer510.230.960.531.830.8837%10%0.000.7934%0.600.00
Bill Gadsby440.361.031.001.030.8549%8%0.030.8384%0.940.00
Terry Harper450.140.770.731.051.0343%3%0.001.3634%0.570.03
Tim Horton730.290.840.930.901.2550%28%0.171.0054%0.620.02
Pierre Pilote650.491.040.871.190.8151%63%0.380.9838%1.230.01
Marcel Pronovost630.210.931.190.790.9053%8%0.011.1175%0.840.04
Allan Stanley700.280.800.850.941.1746%20%0.080.8755%0.610.04
Jean-Guy Talbot650.150.610.611.001.2735%16%0.020.9535%0.830.00
J.C. Tremblay560.340.900.631.430.8044%44%0.231.1073%0.710.00
Moose Vasko580.090.940.621.520.7641%13%0.051.2054%1.400.00
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
As with the forwards, a few defencemen had big plus-minus splits in the playoffs. Carl Brewer, J.C. Tremblay, and Moose Vasko stand out.

The Chicago defencemen had very poor team results shorthanded. Looking at the playoffs year by year in more detail, Chicago allowed a ton of playoff shorthanded goals in 1965, 1966, and 1967 -- three disappointing playoff years for them. The 1965 playoffs saw a lot of goals scored on the power play, and Chicago was a main victim, allowing 19 PPGA in 11 games. Then in 1966 they allowed 10 PPGA in 6 games, and in 1967 allowed 7 PPGA in 6 games. Over those three playoff seasons, they allowed 37 goals at even strength and 36 shorthanded goals. They had a goal differential of +1 at even strength, but scored 17 fewer power play goals than they allowed.

Continuing on the theme of power play goals in the playoffs, two of the Montreal Stanley Cup winning teams provide a major contrast. In 1960, when Montreal won 8 straight playoff games and the Cup, their outstanding power play barely played a role. They scored only 3 PPG and allowed 1, with the remaining 36 of 40 goals scored at even strength. The next Stanley Cup victory for the Canadiens, 1965, was won on the power play. They scored a record 21 playoff goals on the power play, and only 13 goals at even strength. I haven't checked, but I suspect very few teams have since scored as many as 21 power play goals or more in 2 playoff rounds.

Also a note on the Toronto Maple Leafs in the playoffs from 1962 to 1964. They had outstanding shorthanded results in those 3 seasons, allowing only 17 PPGA in 36 games. Over the same time, Chicago allowed 25 in 25, Detroit allowed 18 in 25, and Montreal allowed 12 in 18. In addition to their goal prevention, they also scored 8 shorthanded goals, meaning they were only -9 in 36 playoff games when shorthanded.

Edit: Actually, Montreal was just as strong on the PK in their Stanley Cup seasons of 1965 and 1966. They allowed only 11 PPG in 23 games. For those two playoffs, Detroit allowed 15 in 19, Toronto allowed 18 in 10 (!), and Chicago allowed 29 in 20. For much of the 60s a big part of the formula for playoff success was a strong penalty kill.
 
Last edited:

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,779
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Here are a couple more tables. These ones show the same metrics over the same time period for playoff games only. I've cut off the numbers at a minimum of 40 games played.

Keep in mind for these numbers were compiled against a stronger class of opponent, and specific matchups would have influenced these numbers more than the regular season numbers.

Forwards
PlayerSum of GPSum of $ESP/GSum of $ESGF/GSum of $ESGA/GR-ONR-OFFEV%PP%$PPP/GTmPP+SH%TmSH+$SHP/G
George Armstrong700.410.670.391.710.8729%48%0.200.8725%0.620.05
Ralph Backstrom620.400.450.530.841.3028%6%0.041.180%N/A0.00
Murray Balfour400.360.550.551.000.9428%18%0.141.050%N/A0.00
Dave Balon410.350.590.411.431.0724%1%0.001.542%1.500.00
Jean Beliveau630.480.540.351.531.0625%76%0.431.030%N/A0.00
Alex Delvecchio610.480.700.641.090.7833%61%0.451.198%0.650.02
Dick Duff700.410.600.441.351.0529%38%0.241.093%0.500.00
John Ferguson400.290.370.410.891.3223%40%0.081.040%N/A0.00
Val Fonteyne450.140.210.380.550.9915%13%0.101.1040%0.990.03
Billy Harris450.140.140.150.931.117%15%0.070.920%N/A0.00
Bill Hay670.330.490.540.911.0028%45%0.191.0728%1.430.01
Gordie Howe610.600.810.621.310.7336%87%0.631.2124%0.880.03
Bobby Hull650.740.860.661.300.8340%83%0.440.8510%1.670.01
Red Kelly700.480.590.670.881.1635%75%0.350.864%0.430.02
Dave Keon630.440.630.381.660.9529%53%0.190.8330%0.630.07
Parker MacDonald520.080.220.470.471.0616%34%0.241.270%N/A0.00
Bruce MacGregor520.320.470.510.910.9424%19%0.121.1827%0.900.01
Frank Mahovlich720.420.550.660.831.2133%51%0.270.790%N/A0.00
Ab McDonald430.480.690.352.000.8925%45%0.221.280%N/A0.00
Stan Mikita660.630.780.611.280.8338%65%0.390.8611%1.380.01
Eric Nesterenko660.340.520.521.000.9628%8%0.021.2737%1.480.04
Claude Provost620.380.580.361.631.0327%16%0.091.3834%0.680.00
Bob Pulford730.470.590.600.981.1234%12%0.051.1843%0.670.04
Henri Richard580.620.670.531.271.0934%28%0.211.120%N/A0.00
Bobby Rousseau510.250.410.480.861.0526%64%0.381.0610%0.610.01
Eddie Shack530.140.250.330.751.2016%7%0.020.510%N/A0.00
Floyd Smith440.280.390.650.601.1026%47%0.261.320%N/A0.00
Ron Stewart560.260.360.430.851.2521%18%0.080.9725%0.630.00
Norm Ullman610.660.780.900.870.9342%66%0.481.2637%0.930.02
Kenny Wharram650.470.650.531.240.8831%28%0.120.701%1.350.00
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
The plus-minus R-ON and R-OFF splits were larger in the playoffs than in the regular season for many players. See Dave Keon and George Armstrong from Toronto, Claude Provost and Jean Beliveau from Montreal, and several others. Possibly because there were fewer games played than in the regular season and a good series or two could really move the numbers.

The Chicago and Detroit stars (Hull, Mikita, Howe) were still plus players in the playoffs, but their teams really struggled at even strength when they were off the ice.

There's one player I want to pick on here. Eddie Shack. In the playoffs and in the regular season, he was a minus player who played a relatively small role at even strength. He rarely played on the power play and didn't kill penalties. What exactly did he do to keep a job with the Leafs, a strong team, for eight seasons? Why Shack and not Jim Pappin, Gerry Ehman, or Dick Gamble?

Defencemen
PlayerSum of GPSum of $ESP/GSum of $ESGF/GSum of $ESGA/GR-ONR-OFFEV%PP%$PPP/GTmPP+SH%TmSH+$SHP/G
Bob Baun690.200.850.631.370.9241%1%0.001.2340%0.600.00
Carl Brewer510.230.960.531.830.8837%10%0.000.7934%0.600.00
Bill Gadsby440.361.031.001.030.8549%8%0.030.8384%0.940.00
Terry Harper450.140.770.731.051.0343%3%0.001.3634%0.570.03
Tim Horton730.290.840.930.901.2550%28%0.171.0054%0.620.02
Pierre Pilote650.491.040.871.190.8151%63%0.380.9838%1.230.01
Marcel Pronovost630.210.931.190.790.9053%8%0.011.1175%0.840.04
Allan Stanley700.280.800.850.941.1746%20%0.080.8755%0.610.04
Jean-Guy Talbot650.150.610.611.001.2735%16%0.020.9535%0.830.00
J.C. Tremblay560.340.900.631.430.8044%44%0.231.1073%0.710.00
Moose Vasko580.090.940.621.520.7641%13%0.051.2054%1.400.00
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
As with the forwards, a few defencemen had big plus-minus splits in the playoffs. Carl Brewer, J.C. Tremblay, and Moose Vasko stand out.

The Chicago defencemen had very poor team results shorthanded. Looking at the playoffs year by year in more detail, Chicago allowed a ton of playoff shorthanded goals in 1965, 1966, and 1967 -- three disappointing playoff years for them. The 1965 playoffs saw a lot of goals scored on the power play, and Chicago was a main victim, allowing 19 PPGA in 11 games. Then in 1966 they allowed 10 PPGA in 6 games, and in 1967 allowed 7 PPGA in 6 games. Over those three playoff seasons, they allowed 37 goals at even strength and 36 shorthanded goals. They had a goal differential of +1 at even strength, but scored 17 fewer power play goals than they allowed.

Continuing on the theme of power play goals in the playoffs, two of the Montreal Stanley Cup winning teams provide a major contrast. In 1960, when Montreal won 8 straight playoff games and the Cup, their outstanding power play barely played a role. They scored only 3 PPG and allowed 1, with the remaining 36 of 40 goals scored at even strength. The next Stanley Cup victory for the Canadiens, 1965, was won on the power play. They scored a record 21 playoff goals on the power play, and only 13 goals at even strength. I haven't checked, but I suspect very few teams have since scored as many as 21 power play goals or more in 2 playoff rounds.

Also a note on the Toronto Maple Leafs in the playoffs from 1962 to 1964. They had outstanding shorthanded results in those 3 seasons, allowing only 17 PPGA in 36 games. Over the same time, Chicago allowed 25 in 25, Detroit allowed 18 in 25, and Montreal allowed 12 in 18. In addition to their goal prevention, they also scored 8 shorthanded goals, meaning they were only -9 in 36 playoff games when shorthanded.

Edit: Actually, Montreal was just as strong on the PK in their Stanley Cup seasons of 1965 and 1966. They allowed only 11 PPG in 23 games. For those two playoffs, Detroit allowed 15 in 19, Toronto allowed 18 in 10 (!), and Chicago allowed 29 in 20. For much of the 60s a big part of the formula for playoff success was a strong penalty kill.

Outstanding work. Quick comment - add Dick Duff to the list of surprisingly strong playoff performers.

A few alternative explanations. Looking at an era where four of the six O6 teams dominated the playoffs Out of 8 seasons, 31 out of 32 playoff slots were filled by Montreal, Toronto, Chicago and Detroit. New York snuck-in in 1962.

Seven of the eight SCs were won by teams that rolled four lines, all the time. Chicago in 1961 also rolled four lines but went back to basically three lines afterwards.Seems like the rested teams had an advantage.

Chicago and Detroit in the playoffs. Their top line or lines usually had an exploitable weakness. Prime example Detroit. Howe and Delvecchio plus a hole either at center or LW depending on how Delvecchio was deployed. Evidenced by The gap between the two stars and one of the fillers Parker MacDonald(0.47).

You are correct about the playoff importance of the PP/PK units. Canadiens under Toe Blake had dedicated PK forwards which allowed them to rest their lines and maintain line stability. Chicago used three lines with Hull and MIKITA being deployed on the PP and PK. Post man advantage or shorthanded Blake could dictated the match-ups with fresh lines against Chicago's 3rd line or a tired Mikita or Hull.

Toronto defensively. Two pairings. Horton/Stanley saw much more of Howe and Delvechhio and Hull because of their size then Baun and Brewer did. Hence the disparities.

Why Eddie Shack? Straight forward answer. Shack was the better skater, physicality and could play all three forward positions - bit of a disaster at center, though. Ehman and Pappin were strictly RWs at the NHL level, Gamble strictly LW. the 12th or 13th forward had to be able to play at least two positions and/or kill penalties to be useful.
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Billy Harris' usage pretty much exactly fits his profile from what I've read and compiled about him. Out of all the guys with 40+ playoff games, he has half the EV% of the next least-used guy (Fonteyne). His per-minute scoring rate appears to be as good as anyone's, though.

Crazy to think we have better data for 1960-67 playoffs than we do for 68-82 playoffs... or has that changed now? A full 1960-2017 playoff spreadsheet overpass-style would sure be interesting. Regular season too, for that matter.
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
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Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Billy Harris' usage pretty much exactly fits his profile from what I've read and compiled about him. Out of all the guys with 40+ playoff games, he has half the EV% of the next least-used guy (Fonteyne). His per-minute scoring rate appears to be as good as anyone's, though.

Crazy to think we have better data for 1960-67 playoffs than we do for 68-82 playoffs... or has that changed now? A full 1960-2017 playoff spreadsheet overpass-style would sure be interesting. Regular season too, for that matter.

One of the quirks of the timing of the release of the archival data.
Eventually the requested will be produced. Ideally after the work is completed going back to the 1917-18 season.

Having all the years will provide a much stronger understanding especially if access to all the NHL meetings minutes are made available. This would answer further questions about scoring and other data keeping procedures. How the definitions of assists, etc changed thru the years.

Prime example, SV%. 1956 and 1957 it was part of the weekly NHL stat package, TOI seems to have been clocked as far back as the mid 1930s and +/- did not start in 1960, evidence of reference to +/- exists from the early O6 days.

Once available and understood the 1968 to 2017 data will have greater meaning once updated and integrated into a near complete package.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
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Brooklyn
Wow, Bobby Orr's R:eek:n and off as an 18-year old rookie. Outstanding.

Mikita's on and off numbers are standout as well, but he was probably the best all-around forward of the decade, so that shouldn't surprise anyone.

He also may have had the easiest matchups of any star forward in the decade.

Still, the numbers are outstanding.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,542
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Thanks for the outstanding work, overpass!

Would you happen to have the ES and PP numbers and the plus minus numbers for home and away available for the 1961-1962 season?
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,271
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Billy Harris' usage pretty much exactly fits his profile from what I've read and compiled about him. Out of all the guys with 40+ playoff games, he has half the EV% of the next least-used guy (Fonteyne). His per-minute scoring rate appears to be as good as anyone's, though.

Crazy to think we have better data for 1960-67 playoffs than we do for 68-82 playoffs... or has that changed now? A full 1960-2017 playoff spreadsheet overpass-style would sure be interesting. Regular season too, for that matter.

Yeah, it would be pretty cool. But I don't plan to compile a full playoff sheet. The 1960-1967 was a good size for a small project about an era where we just had new data released. But most of the time went into manually entering the data from nhl.com into my spreadsheet, and I'm not really interested enough to put the time in for the post-1968 playoffs. Way more rounds, way more players, too much time.

(I used to copy and paste data from nhl.com into Excel, but it doesn't seem to work anymore since they upgraded their stats. If anyone has a way to quickly copy the nhl.com data to a spreadsheet, I might do more with it.)

Thanks for the outstanding work, overpass!

Would you happen to have the ES and PP numbers and the plus minus numbers for home and away available for the 1961-1962 season?

The raw stats are all on nhl.com. The numbers I've posted are just adjusted for scoring level (not necessary for a single season) or put in some kind of team context. Was was there something more specific you were looking for?

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,271
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One more fun stat I ran across while going through the data.

Shooting percentage leaders for the 1959-60 to 1966-67 time period (minimum 250 GP)

NHL.com - Stats

1. Camille Henry: 21.2%
2. Kenny Wharram: 16.1%
3. Dickie Moore: 14.4%
4. Gilles Tremblay: 14.0%
5. Frank Mahovlich: 13.7%

In a league where it was hard to stand out, Camille "The Eel" Henry was one of a kind. If he posted those shooting percentages today they'd call it "unsustainable".
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,175
7,308
Regina, SK
Yeah, it would be pretty cool. But I don't plan to compile a full playoff sheet. The 1960-1967 was a good size for a small project about an era where we just had new data released. But most of the time went into manually entering the data from nhl.com into my spreadsheet, and I'm not really interested enough to put the time in for the post-1968 playoffs. Way more rounds, way more players, too much time.

(I used to copy and paste data from nhl.com into Excel, but it doesn't seem to work anymore since they upgraded their stats. If anyone has a way to quickly copy the nhl.com data to a spreadsheet, I might do more with it.)

so you're saying the data is there?

One more fun stat I ran across while going through the data.

Shooting percentage leaders for the 1959-60 to 1966-67 time period (minimum 250 GP)

NHL.com - Stats

1. Camille Henry: 21.2%
2. Kenny Wharram: 16.1%
3. Dickie Moore: 14.4%
4. Gilles Tremblay: 14.0%
5. Frank Mahovlich: 13.7%

In a league where it was hard to stand out, Camille "The Eel" Henry was one of a kind. If he posted those shooting percentages today they'd call it "unsustainable".

Isn't that pretty much because he was a PP specialist? Meaning he got to take more high percentage shots than other players?
 

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,779
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
One more fun stat I ran across while going through the data.

Shooting percentage leaders for the 1959-60 to 1966-67 time period (minimum 250 GP)

NHL.com - Stats

1. Camille Henry: 21.2%
2. Kenny Wharram: 16.1%
3. Dickie Moore: 14.4%
4. Gilles Tremblay: 14.0%
5. Frank Mahovlich: 13.7%

In a league where it was hard to stand out, Camille "The Eel" Henry was one of a kind. If he posted those shooting percentages today they'd call it "unsustainable".

Camille Henry was a "deflection" specialist. Getting credit for shots when he scored but not when he didn't unless obvious.
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
30,885
13,680
This is freaking amazing.Great job overpass.

Billy Harris' usage pretty much exactly fits his profile from what I've read and compiled about him. Out of all the guys with 40+ playoff games, he has half the EV% of the next least-used guy (Fonteyne). His per-minute scoring rate appears to be as good as anyone's, though.

Crazy to think we have better data for 1960-67 playoffs than we do for 68-82 playoffs... or has that changed now? A full 1960-2017 playoff spreadsheet overpass-style would sure be interesting. Regular season too, for that matter.

I second this!
 

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