GDT: NHL Playoffs

[Bazeek]

Right, the key difference is that they have an elite center, and we don't have any current way of getting one. I don't think we even have the assets for one anymore.

Sure, but they got their elite center with their 3rd or 4th best forward prospect, a 1st that was likely to be 20+, and a couple of cap dumps (I'm sorry, "depth players"). I guess my point is that opportunities come up every year for GMs that recognize them and are well positioned to take advantage of them, and that that sort of positioning doesn't require top-1o picks.

Heck, it was only 3 years ago that we lucked into something similar with Staal, but for various reasons we squandered that opportunity.

 

[Wild11MN]

Sure, but they got their elite center with their 3rd or 4th best forward prospect, a 1st that was likely to be 20+, and a couple of cap dumps (I'm sorry, "depth players"). I guess my point is that opportunities come up every year for GMs that recognize them and are well positioned to take advantage of them, and that that sort of positioning doesn't require top-1o picks.

Heck, it was only 3 years ago that we lucked into something similar with Staal, but for various reasons we squandered that opportunity.

That's right, I forgot the price ended up being pretty dang cheap for ROR. As long as we don't go Kekalainen on the thing, I feel like we need to pull the trigger on one of the next opportunities.

 

[Bazeek]

I'll also point out that Boston has had a similar approach. They've got some high picks on their team but it's mostly older guys. Pastrnak, Marchand, Krug, Debrusk, then guys they traded for at modest prices like Coyle and Johansson were all big parts of the run they just had.

Meanwhile, years of "Shannaplan" have paid what dividends for the Maple Leafs thus far? Florida hasn't won a playoff round since the 90's. Oiler fans are feeling optimistic because they might come out of this summer not looking like the joke of the league.

Just seems like you can pick a team-building strategy, look around the league and find examples of successes and failures for every one. There's no "right way" to build a Stanley Cup team, so it seems weird that fans get so gung-ho about the one that involves the most misery. There's a weird, penitent aspect to it that seems close to religious. "If we can concentrate the misery into 2-3 years surely the universe will reward us with happiness!" Doesn't work that way.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That's right, I forgot the price ended up being pretty dang cheap for ROR. As long as we don't go Kekalainen on the thing, I feel like we need to pull the trigger on one of the next opportunities.

I guess the opportunity this summer is just being able to stomach a lot of money 28 year old that averaged 25 goals and 55 points in the 4 year prior to the last one.

 

[Wild11MN]

I'll also point out that Boston has had a similar approach. They've got some high picks on their team but it's mostly older guys. Pastrnak, Marchand, Krug, Debrusk, then guys they traded for at modest prices like Coyle and Johansson were all big parts of the run they just had.

Meanwhile, years of "Shannaplan" have paid what dividends for the Maple Leafs thus far? Florida hasn't won a playoff round since the 90's. Oiler fans are feeling optimistic because they might come out of this summer not looking like the joke of the league.

Just seems like you can pick a team-building strategy, look around the league and find examples of successes and failures for every one. There's no "right way" to build a Stanley Cup team, so it seems weird that fans get so gung-ho about the one that involves the most misery. There's a weird, penitent aspect to it that seems close to religious. "If we can concentrate the misery into 2-3 years surely the universe will reward us with happiness!" Doesn't work that way.

Pasternak, Bergeron, Marchand. That's pretty much all you need to know there. Plus an elite goalie.

Give us a top line like that (all drafted by them) and an elite goalie, and you've got a legit shot every year.

I know what you're saying is more on the strategy of team-building, I'm just saying their team is built much different than ours.

 

[Wild11MN]

I guess the opportunity this summer is just being able to stomach a lot of money 28 year old that averaged 25 goals and 55 points in the 4 year prior to the last one.

I think ideally you aim higher than Lee for your 1C, but that might be the only option this year. You could very much debate whether or not you take that only known option. I'm leaning towards no.

Edit: Lee is a winger. I'm dumb. You mean Duchene? I thought he for sure averaged more than 55 points, but maybe not?

 

[Bazeek]

Pasternak, Bergeron, Marchand. That's pretty much all you need to know there. Plus an elite goalie.

Give us a top line like that (all drafted by them) and an elite goalie, and you've got a legit shot every year.

I know what you're saying is more on the strategy of team-building, I'm just saying their team is built much different than ours.

I fully agree and I hope I'm not coming off as directing any of this at you. Your post just kind of got the motor running And pointing out that some successful teams didn't need top-5 draft picks to add key players doesn't tell us much about how the heck we can do the same. I still have no idea.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think ideally you aim higher than Lee for your 1C, but that might be the only option this year. You could very much debate whether or not you take that only known option. I'm leaning towards no.

Edit: Lee is a winger. I'm dumb.

Yeah, those were Duchene's averages from 2014 to 2018.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Pasternak, Bergeron, Marchand. That's pretty much all you need to know there. Plus an elite goalie.

Give us a top line like that (all drafted by them) and an elite goalie, and you've got a legit shot every year.

I know what you're saying is more on the strategy of team-building, I'm just saying their team is built much different than ours.

It's built different, but not built in a way that is outside of our abilities.

 

[Wild11MN]

Yeah, those were Duchene's averages from 2014 to 2018.

Yeah I really thought he averaged better than that, that's why I didn't think of him originally. Would he put up more than 55-60 points here? Hard to know. I don't think I want to pay $9M+ for that without a longer track record.

 

[Wild11MN]

It's built different, but not built in a way that is outside of our abilities.

Right. We're just no where near that now, which suggests we are a long ways from contending.

 

[2Pair]

Yeah I really thought he averaged better than that, that's why I didn't think of him originally. Would he put up more than 55-60 points here? Hard to know. I don't think I want to pay $9M+ for that without a longer track record.

And the cycle continues

 

[Wild11MN]

And the cycle continues

I'm just going to stop there. I'm sure this has been discussed to no end without me paying attention.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah I really thought he averaged better than that, that's why I didn't think of him originally. Would he put up more than 55-60 points here? Hard to know. I don't think I want to pay $9M+ for that without a longer track record.

Which circles back around to being willing to take a chance. O'Reilly's good seasons (6 of them) averaged 23 goals and 62 points before he was traded. Not all that much different.

 

[Bazeek]

And the cycle continues

Yeah, I know I said $9.5m max (or whatever) in the FA thread, but really if Duchene is a possibility it might just be a "back up the truck" situation. He looked like a guy that wanted to get **** done in the playoffs this year. I'm less interested in him than I was in O'Reilly last summer, but I could see him having a similar impact wherever he does end up going. Another center with tons of skill that's been stuck on bad teams for multiple seasons now.

 

[Wild11MN]

Which circles back around to being willing to take a chance. O'Reilly's good seasons (6 of them) averaged 23 goals and 62 points before he was traded. Not all that much different.

Yeah, ROR was always considered an elite two-way player, something Duchene is not, but point well taken.

 

[2Pair]

I'm just going to stop there. I'm sure this has been discussed to no end without me paying attention.

My point is that what you just said about Duchene is basically what was said a year ago about O'Reilly. If you want to add a 1C to the roster, you're going to have to take a risk at some point

 

[Wild11MN]

My point is that what you just said about Duchene is basically what was said a year ago about O'Reilly. If you want to add a 1C to the roster, you're going to have to take a risk at some point

Got it. I've always considered O'Reilly a tier above, but you're right. I rescind what I said earlier. Might just have to take that risk.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

My point is that what you just said about Duchene is basically what was said a year ago about O'Reilly. If you want to add a 1C to the roster, you're going to have to take a risk at some point

Even Staal was somewhat of a risk based on his last season in Carolina/New York.

If I remember right, even I wasn't all that thrilled with the 3rd year.

 

[Ban Hammered]

I agree with your main point, but St. Louis is not a good example. Best team in the league the second half of the season.

Sure...but still were not seen as a high Cup contender...especially considering their history. Rookie goalie. Interim coach. Had home ice advantage once the entire playoffs.
Every series goes 6 or 7. Not built with overly high picks (tanking).
"Fan logic" says this team should not win...they just did.

 

[Dakota Sioux]