GDT: NHL Draft Part III - Now With Foreigners!

[bambamcam4ever]

Despres could. Despres has done something Maatta never has... successfully play top-4 minutes in the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure Maatta played on the 2nd pairing in the playoffs his rookie year. Anyway, I'd be floored if Despres ever became as good as 20-year-old Olli Maatta.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

In my mind, Ward is just a lucky guy who happen to score some goals. Am I wrong ? Can someone discover channel me on this guy?

 

[Nakawick]

In my mind, Ward is just a lucky guy who happen to score some goals. Am I wrong ? Can someone discover channel me on this guy?

he is a bottom 6 guy. Short and sweet contract or pass for me.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Despres could. Despres has done something Maatta never has... successfully play top-4 minutes in the playoffs.

On the flip side...
He's won an Olympic Bronze and he wasn't just riding the pine either.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Ward is a really good third liner who is/will be overpaid for his role. When he's played in the proper role he's great, but he's consistently played over his head...so he'd almost certainly draw the ire of Pens fans when he's shoe-horned onto Geno's wing.

 

[cheesedanish87]

What about to wait and see, at least, for one season? How long this organization have been waiting for Beau Bennett? 3 yrs and it's been fine for a lot of people!

Yeah, let's trade our 2nd best, top pairing 20yo d-man on ELC for Kessel. Let's be stupid like Bruins with Hamilton.

To me, Olli Maatta is more important for this team than Kessel, contract-wise, age-wise..

We're not in cap hell either. Yeah we have to go with younger players and blah blah.. let's trade 20 yo for 27yo. I would understand that, if we're talking about player like Tarasenko, but we're not.
Just ask Leafs fans, what it would take to get Morgan Reilly eg.

Right now, I wish Shero is still our GM, cause he would never ever trade Maatta for any winger available right now. You simply don't trade franchise Dman! Period!

Great post.


I wouldn't offer Toronto anything of any value.

If Toronto doesn't want to trade him then so be it.

If they don't trade him to Pgh the number of interested teams goes from 1 to zero, they will be stuck with him.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I'm pretty sure Maatta played on the 2nd pairing in the playoffs his rookie year. Anyway, I'd be floored if Despres ever became as good as 20-year-old Olli Maatta.

He didn't, and he had fallen off a cliff by the time the playoffs came around. People like to romanticize Maatta's rookie year. He started off very strong and as the season went on became weaker and weaker. That's partially due to injury, and partially do to being a young kid not used to a full NHL season. He's an extremely talented kid, but he's not Lidstrom and still has a lot to prove in the NHL.

 

[M0NTY26]

So the Kessel deal didn't happen, and that's fine. But what happened to all these other deals JR was going to do as well?

I'm not watching this team next year if we don't get rid of some of this dead weight.

Sounds like we'll be getting rid of dead weight either way then.

 

[mpp9]

If we trade Olli Maatta for Phil Kessel, we are the 2014 Flyers without the talent pipeline. Should not be considered for even a second.

Except we have a #1 D-man, a #1 goalie, and the best #2C in the game. To go along with what would be the best top line in the game. Better than Giroux and Voracek. That's a pretty ridiculous claim.

We would have to fill out the forward depth on the cheap and trust the remaining young D to develop quickly.

 

[BigBenSF*]

Despres could. Despres has done something Maatta never has... successfully play top-4 minutes in the playoffs.

Oh Christ. Please, keep making statements based on a 13 game sample size. And please keep using those statements to pretend it actually means something.

 

[BumFortyOne]

I think JVR is a pipe dream. I don't believe we have the assets to land both Kessel and JVR, and in my mind Kessel is the guy we need the most (and the guy Toronto needs to get rid of the most). Besides, we don't have enough London Knights grads to make it work! We only have two.

As for Letang's partner, we could use Scott Harrington. I mean, the guy was basically born to play with a Letang.




Exactly. It's not that we WANT to move Maatta, it's taking advantage of Mark Hunter's ***** for all things London. Not to mention I'm sure Mr. Babcock sees Maatta in very high regard. Then it becomes a Maatta deal as much as a Kessel deal.

They just acquired Marincin from Edm. He's not terrible if we need a blueliner to come back this way. They also have Stuart Percy who's not bad. And of course I'm sure they would love to get rid of Polak. Maybe there could be several D-men moved in this deal...Maatta, Lovejoy, Scuderi that way, Marincin and Polak this way. Something like that.

I'm just saying the only way I include Maatta is if JVR is part of the package that's coming back. If they want Maatta, they need to pay up.

I'd be willing to add the 2016 1st and Kapanen to make it work, but they'd need to take back all of our castoffs just to make the cap hits match.

If they really push on Maatta and don't blow JR away with JVR, other assets or cap retention on Kessel, then he should look elsewhere.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Oh Christ. Please, keep making statements based on a 13 game sample size. And please keep using those statements to pretend it actually means something.

I don't understand this post at all.

A poster said that Despres couldn't fill Maatta's shoes. I pointed out that Despres has successfully played top-4 minutes in the playoffs while Maatta hasn't. That isn't to say that Maatta won't in the future, I'm sure he will. But the expectations many have for Maatta are a bit high considering what he has actually done in the NHL thus far. People act like he's accomplished far more than he actually has.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

For a small stretch of time. So was Paul Martin for a longer stretch of time. You'd balk at trading a young Martin for Kessel?

I get it. Trading Maatta is an extremely tough pill to swallow. He could be an elite D-men for the next decade+. But Kessel IS an elite RW, right now. Second only to Ovy the last few years in terms of shot generation and goals.

It sounds like we'll be waiting until Wednesday anyway to see where the asking price ends up with Kessel. I'd much prefer using DP or KK as the the trade piece. But I'm not going to make silly claims like that trade will doom us. We're a better team the next few years with Kessel than Maatta. The trade off is after that.

When a 20 year old plays as well as a 10 year vet as his absolute peak, the younger player isn't a younger version of the older one. He's already as good and primed to be much better.

Maatta will be making a pittance compared to Kessel to boot. So you don't compare Kessel and Maatta one for one, you compare Kessel and Maatta plus a ton of extra cap space.

Maatta shouldn't be dealt. Period.

 

[eXile59]

Maatta isn't as proven as some people make him out to be but you still don't trade him. I'm glad we didn't bite.

 

[mpp9]

When a 20 year old plays as well as a 10 year vet as his absolute peak, the younger player isn't a younger version of the older one. He's already as good and primed to be much better.

Maatta will be making a pittance compared to Kessel to boot. So you don't compare Kessel and Maatta one for one, you compare Kessel and Maatta plus a ton of extra cap space.

Maatta shouldn't be dealt. Period.

This board does more 180s on players.

Damn near the entire board agreed last year that a Sutter+Maatta deal for that coveted winger was the route to take. A few weeks of great play, another should injury and cancer recovery later, we're talking about Maatta on Sid and Geno level untouchable.

BillyBudd is probably the only poster on here I remember reading Maatta can't be moved.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

He didn't, and he had fallen off a cliff by the time the playoffs came around. People like to romanticize Maatta's rookie year. He started off very strong and as the season went on became weaker and weaker. That's partially due to injury, and partially do to being a young kid not used to a full NHL season. He's an extremely talented kid, but he's not Lidstrom and still has a lot to prove in the NHL.

This.

I touted Maatta as much as anyone his rookie year but let's not go overboard about it.

 

[billybudd]

Despres could. Despres has done something Maatta never has... successfully play top-4 minutes in the playoffs.

Maatta succeeded on a top pairing on an Olympic medalist at 19, where the level of play is considerably higher than the NHL playoffs. If you put team USA in the Western conference playoffs, they'd go 16-0 even with Bylsma calling the shots. Maatta was first pairing on a team that destroyed them.

For a small stretch of time. So was Paul Martin for a longer stretch of time. You'd balk at trading a young Martin for Kessel?

I get it. Trading Maatta is an extremely tough pill to swallow. He could be an elite D-men for the next decade+. But Kessel IS an elite RW, right now. Second only to Ovy the last few years in terms of shot generation and goals.

It sounds like we'll be waiting until Wednesday anyway to see where the asking price ends up with Kessel. I'd much prefer using DP or KK as the the trade piece. But I'm not going to make silly claims like that trade will doom us. We're a better team the next few years with Kessel than Maatta. The trade off is after that.

There's no way. No way. There's a 7 million cap hit difference between the two, so Kessel gives you less opportunity to build depth through the lineup. That's potentially two quality players.

On Maatta's bridge deal, it's still going to be a difference of about 4 million. That's Maatta and Oshie for the same cap allocation as just Kessel. Kessel's better than Oshie, but he is nowhere near better than both of these players combined. Plus, you don't have to have Dumoulin or Harrington or freaking Gonchar on the first pair.

And this isn't even factoring in that Maatta was playing like a 1D until he hurt his shoulder. Kessel is a wing. The only wings that are as important as a 1D are Ovechkin, Kane and maybe Benn. Kessel's good, but he ain't them.

If we trade Maatta for Kessel we get worse in the short term. We get ridiculously worse in the long term. The only way this works out for us is if Maatta drops dead after the trade.

When a 20 year old plays as well as a 10 year vet as his absolute peak, the younger player isn't a younger version of the older one. He's already as good and primed to be much better.

Maatta will be making a pittance compared to Kessel to boot. So you don't compare Kessel and Maatta one for one, you compare Kessel and Maatta plus a ton of extra cap space.

Maatta shouldn't be dealt. Period.

I don't agree with you on a lot, but we're on the exact same wavelength on this one.

 

[Son Goku]

This board does more 180s on players.

Damn near the entire board agreed last year that a Sutter+Maatta deal for that coveted winger was the route to take. A few weeks of great play, another should injury and cancer recovery later, we're talking about Maatta on Sid and Geno level untouchable.

BillyBudd is probably the only poster on here I remember reading Maatta can't be moved.

He's the future captain of this team. He really is that good.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This board does more 180s on players.

Damn near the entire board agreed last year that a Sutter+Maatta deal for that coveted winger was the route to take. A few weeks of great play, another should injury and cancer recovery later, we're talking about Maatta on Sid and Geno level untouchable.

BillyBudd is probably the only poster on here I remember reading Maatta can't be moved.

Circumstances have clearly changed since last summer.

 

[Pete Gas]

So no Kessel but maybe overpaying for FA's

 

[Waffle Fries]

Maatta succeeded on a top pairing on an Olympic medalist at 19, where the level of play is considerably higher than the NHL playoffs. If you put team USA in the Western conference playoffs, they'd go 16-0 even with Bylsma calling the shots. Maatta was first pairing on a team that destroyed them.

Well I think we have different opinions about that US team, and Maatta was great in the Olympics. However at that point in the season he hadn't played as many games so stamina wasn't a problem.

 

[mpp9]

There's no way. No way. There's a 7 million cap hit difference between the two, so Kessel gives you less opportunity to build depth through the lineup. That's potentially two quality players.

I've said multiple times that Toronto would have to retain salary if Maatta is going the other way. Maatta on his bridge deal at 3-4 mil vs. Kessel at 6 is the scenario I'm talking about. Kessel is a better player for now and will continue to be throughout Sid and Geno's late 20's.

That salary retention allows you to retain or go after a top 4 D to be a stopgap until other guys are ready.

And this isn't even factoring in that Maatta was playing like a 1D until he hurt his shoulder. Kessel is a wing. The only wings that are as important as a 1D are Ovechkin, Kane and maybe Benn. Kessel's good, but he ain't them.

I think Kessel is right up there with Kane. Not sure if you overrate Kane or underrate Kessel. If you switched their teams, the results would be the same, IMO.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't understand this post at all.

A poster said that Despres couldn't fill Maatta's shoes. I pointed out that Despres has successfully played top-4 minutes in the playoffs while Maatta hasn't. That isn't to say that Maatta won't in the future, I'm sure he will. But the expectations many have for Maatta are a bit high considering what he has actually done in the NHL thus far. People act like he's accomplished far more than he actually has.

Successfully meaning what?

That he was in the top 4? He played in the top 4 here for stretches and even in the playoffs for injuries.

 

[Jacob]

Just sign Stafford or Frolik and call it an offseason. Keep all the picks and prospects. Our cupboard is starting to look respectable again.

 

[shureshot66]

Looks like we're basically done with draft talk. We have threads for each of the new guys. Resume your Rutherford hand-wringing here, please.