NHL Dmen Rankings #15 Tie Braker: DOUGHTY VS THEODORE

[Raccoon Jesus]

He got one. 2018-2019 was a bad year.

He doesn't get another.

Both are overstated regardless.

"bad" by Doughty standards still finds him a #1 dman.

 

[Krewe]

Both are overstated regardless.

"bad" by Doughty standards still finds him a #1 dman.

No. He was "bad" by NHL top pairing standards in 18-19, and "bad" by NHL Dman standards in 2019-2020. He wasn't at 1D levels in either year

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That's a bit misleading though. The Golden Knights as a team have a policy to balance blueline TOI. Schmidt, who was the toi leader only averaged 23 minutes a night. You can't shelter your entire blueline.

I'm agreeing with that, I'm just saying 'that many minutes' isn't really that many minutes when other #1 dmen were playing 25% more.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

TWO years in a row of a player being bad is def enough in my book to demote someone. Doughty has been awful. Even IF it is his "lack of care" then that is almost worse for me. If that's the case then I don't think you can trust a player who gives up so easily when his team isn't good

Again, overstated. And he's been a Norris runner up on two not-good teams, so this is just more deliberate obtuseness from you.

You might have to look outside your charts for this one.

Nevertheless, I'm okay with Theodore being considered 'better' right now. We'll see if Doughty can rebound or not. I just think some people are trying too hard to overlook Doughty's even recent history to try to tank him out of the top 15, forgetting how good he was as recently as the 2018 playoffs.

 

[Paul4587]

You can’t shelter a guy who plays that many minutes. Even if he’s not out against top lines he’s out against the next best. 2nd lines are still tough competition too, believe it or not.

In reality though he’s not playing that many minutes when you compare him to other top dmen. His total TOI/game is 46th in the league and his ES TOI/game is 35th in the league, other top dmen are playing far more. He also doesn’t PK whatsoever.

There’s an article floating around that shows he gets the easiest minutes in terms of competition of any top 4 dman in the league except Keith Yandle. The Vegas top pairing of Schmidt and McNabb ended up having some of the toughest competition in the league to counter this. And while playing against 2nd and 3rd lines is still playing against quality players, there’s still a huge difference between that and the leagues top guys.

 

[Skolman]

Guess it doesn't feel like it watching him but fine. Like you said, his ability to drive play is the best of anyone on the Knights. Wouldn't trade him for Doughty straight up and that's even without taking into account that we have Pietrangelo now.

Uh, obviously.

Canucks fans wouldn't trade Pettersson for Malkin straight up(rightfully so), that doesn't mean Pettersson is better than Malkin(although they probably believe he is)

 

[Samsquanch]

Defencemen are so hard to gauge. Its by far the hardest position to play in hockey. And its very hard to be consistently great defensively without a proper team surrounding them.

 

[BlueMed]

People still get confused with the difference between a great player and a player who used to be great.

People still get confused with great player not happy on a terrible team and a declining player.

 

[Agent Zub]

People still get confused with great player not happy on a terrible team and a declining player.

maybe if he actually played like a great player the team wouldn't be so bad