NHL.com Best Dmen of the Expansion Era

[UnSandvich]

Super 16: Orr, Karlsson among best defensemen of expansion era

1. Orr
2. Lidstrom
3. Bourque
4. Robinson
5. Coffey
6. Potvin
7. Chelios
8. Leetch
9. Niedermayer
10. Park
11. MacInnis
12. Stevens
13. Pronger
14. Chara
15. Murphy
16. Karlsson

Click to read more...

 

[GOilers88]

I'm sure seeing Karlsson on that list is going to absolutely ruin some folks day.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sweet Jesus... I mean, they got more-or-less the right group of players, but the ordering is just terrible.

Lidstrom over Bourque. I disagree but it’s defensible. Not worth quibbling over.

Coffey at #4, over Potvin. Coffey over Potvin.

Leetch and Niedermayer over the Chelios/MacInnis/Stevens trio. That just lacks coherence. There’s no measure of a defenseman that could make this make sense.

Larry Murphy over anybody born after 1977!?

This is just... a lot to take in.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Niedermayer gets sooooo overrated by a lot of people. Some of these lists, man:

ADAM KIMELMAN
1. Bobby Orr; 2. Ray Bourque; 3. Larry Robinson; 4. Nicklas Lidstrom; 5. Scott Niedermayer; 6. Paul Coffey; 7. Brian Leetch; 8. Denis Potvin; 9. Scott Stevens; 10. Mark Howe; 11. Al MacInnis; 12. Sergei Zubov; 13. Larry Murphy; 14. Borje Salming; 15. Chris Chelios; 16. Phil Housley

TRACEY MYERS
1. Bobby Orr; 2. Ray Bourque; 3. Nicklas Lidstrom; 4. Paul Coffey; 5. Al MacInnis; 6. Scott Niedermayer; 7. Chris Chelios; 8. Phil Housley; 9. Larry Murphy; 10. Sergei Zubov; 11. Denis Potvin; 12. Brian Leetch; 13. Larry Robinson; 14. Scott Stevens; 15. Zdeno Chara; 16. Duncan Keith

 

[TheMule93]

*angry comment*

 

[jetsfan91]

Good list. Although Coffey is too high. So is Niedermayer and Stevens, Pronger was easily more dominant in his prime. I’d also take out Murphy all together and replace him with Zubov who is criminally underrated.

 

[Brucelenok]

Potvin is too low. He has a legitimate argument for best prime/peak of all defensemen outside of Orr. Also I think Robinson is a bit overrated considering on what teams he played, a bit high on this list

 

[ESH]

Niedermayer getting placed way higher than he deserves as usual

 

[tarheelhockey]

TRACEY MYERS
1. Bobby Orr; 2. Ray Bourque; 3. Nicklas Lidstrom; 4. Paul Coffey; 5. Al MacInnis; 6. Scott Niedermayer; 7. Chris Chelios; 8. Phil Housley; 9. Larry Murphy; 10. Sergei Zubov; 11. Denis Potvin; 12. Brian Leetch; 13. Larry Robinson; 14. Scott Stevens; 15. Zdeno Chara; 16. Duncan Keith

This mother****er just rated Phil Housley and Larry Murphy over Denis Potvin and Larry Robinson.

I just about fell out of my goddamn chair reading that.

The name rang a bell, so I checked her lists for the other positions. Indeed, she was the one who did THIS on the goalie ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Martin Brodeur; 2. Patrick Roy; 3. Ed Belfour; 4. Henrik Lundqvist; 5. Roberto Luongo; 6. Tony Esposito; 7. Curtis Joseph; 8. Dominik Hasek; 9. Chris Osgood; 10. Ryan Miller; 11. Grant Fuhr; 12. Mike Vernon; 13. Pekka Rinne; 14. Andy Moog; 15. Evgeni Nabokov; 16. Tom Barrasso

And THIS on the centers ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Wayne Gretzky; 2. Mario Lemieux; 3. Mark Messier; 4. Joe Sakic; 5. Steve Yzerman; 6. Sidney Crosby; 7. Ron Francis; 8. Joe Thornton; 9. Marcel Dionne; 10. Mike Modano; 11. Bryan Trottier; 12. Adam Oates; 13. Mats Sundin; 14. Phil Esposito; 15. Doug Gilmour; 16. Dale Hawerchuk


Like, it's fine if you don't know who these players are... just decline to submit a ballot rather than making a joke of it.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Lidstrom over Bourque is wrong, but not so bad.

Coffey over Potvin is lol.

Niedermayer and Leetch over Park, Stevens, MacInnis and Pronger is just.. Wow. I mean especially Niedermayer, he played with Stevens and then Pronger and it was obvious who the 1D on NJ and the ducks was. Most overrated player ever.

 

[Trap Jesus]

This mother****er just rated Phil Housley and Larry Murphy over Denis Potvin and Larry Robinson.

I just about fell out of my goddamn chair reading that.

The name rang a bell, so I checked her lists for the other positions. Indeed, she was the one who did THIS on the goalie ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Martin Brodeur; 2. Patrick Roy; 3. Ed Belfour; 4. Henrik Lundqvist; 5. Roberto Luongo; 6. Tony Esposito; 7. Curtis Joseph; 8. Dominik Hasek; 9. Chris Osgood; 10. Ryan Miller; 11. Grant Fuhr; 12. Mike Vernon; 13. Pekka Rinne; 14. Andy Moog; 15. Evgeni Nabokov; 16. Tom Barrasso

And THIS on the centers ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Wayne Gretzky; 2. Mario Lemieux; 3. Mark Messier; 4. Joe Sakic; 5. Steve Yzerman; 6. Sidney Crosby; 7. Ron Francis; 8. Joe Thornton; 9. Marcel Dionne; 10. Mike Modano; 11. Bryan Trottier; 12. Adam Oates; 13. Mats Sundin; 14. Phil Esposito; 15. Doug Gilmour; 16. Dale Hawerchuk


Like, it's fine if you don't know who these players are... just decline to submit a ballot rather than making a joke of it.

Hasek as the 8th best goalie since expansion is 100% the worst take I've ever seen.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

*angry comment*

" angry comment #2 "

 

[Machinehead]

Super 16: Orr, Karlsson among best defensemen of expansion era


8. Leetch

12. Stevens
13. Pronger

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hasek as the 8th best goalie since expansion is 100% the worst take I've ever seen.

Back when we did Top Goalies list on the history board, the late @Canadiens1958 voted Hasek #7, causing him to drop to #2 behind Patrick Roy. The result was a bitter 7-page thread full of allegations of bias, strategic voting, etc. It was a big ol' thing for weeks afterward.

Looking only at post-expansion goalies on that ballot, C58 listed Hasek #4 after Roy, Brodeur, and Dryden. The most controversial take of that entire project wasn't nearly as offensive as the Myers ballot above... which doesn't even list Dryden at all! She left Ken Dryden off the ballot behind Evgeni ****ing Nabokov! *throws a chair*

 

[Trap Jesus]

Back when we did Top Goalies list on the history board, the late @Canadiens1958 voted Hasek #7, causing him to drop to #2 behind Patrick Roy. The result was a bitter 7-page thread full of allegations of bias, strategic voting, etc. It was a big ol' thing for weeks afterward.

Looking only at post-expansion goalies on that ballot, C58 listed Hasek #4 after Roy, Brodeur, and Dryden. The most controversial take of that entire project wasn't nearly as offensive as the Myers ballot above... which doesn't even list Dryden at all! She left Ken Dryden off the ballot behind Evgeni ****ing Nabokov! *throws a chair*

I'm just going through some stats to see if I could possibly understand why she came up with that list. The closest thing I may be on to is games played or wins, because her top 7 are the top 7 for games played (since expansion), and 7 of the top 8 for wins are her top 7, but then she also doesn't have MAF in her top 16, who is 10th in games played and 5th in wins, so there has to be more to it.

 

[Butch 19]

Blake would make the top 10.

 

[Ceremony]

Back when we did Top Goalies list on the history board, the late @Canadiens1958 voted Hasek #7, causing him to drop to #2 behind Patrick Roy. The result was a bitter 7-page thread full of allegations of bias, strategic voting, etc. It was a big ol' thing for weeks afterward.

Looking only at post-expansion goalies on that ballot, C58 listed Hasek #4 after Roy, Brodeur, and Dryden. The most controversial take of that entire project wasn't nearly as offensive as the Myers ballot above... which doesn't even list Dryden at all! She left Ken Dryden off the ballot behind Evgeni ****ing Nabokov! *throws a chair*

Bit crass tagging him for it

 

[Individual 1]

Is Duncan Keith the biggest omission?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Bit crass tagging him for it

Didn't mean to be. An "@" is only one more keystroke and creates a link to the profile.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'm sure seeing Karlsson on that list is going to absolutely ruin some folks day.

He's not even the worst player on the list.

Is Duncan Keith the biggest omission?

Definitely. Almost Malkin not making the NHL top-100 bad.

 

[Voight]

This mother****er just rated Phil Housley and Larry Murphy over Denis Potvin and Larry Robinson.

I just about fell out of my goddamn chair reading that.

The name rang a bell, so I checked her lists for the other positions. Indeed, she was the one who did THIS on the goalie ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Martin Brodeur; 2. Patrick Roy; 3. Ed Belfour; 4. Henrik Lundqvist; 5. Roberto Luongo; 6. Tony Esposito; 7. Curtis Joseph; 8. Dominik Hasek; 9. Chris Osgood; 10. Ryan Miller; 11. Grant Fuhr; 12. Mike Vernon; 13. Pekka Rinne; 14. Andy Moog; 15. Evgeni Nabokov; 16. Tom Barrasso

And THIS on the centers ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Wayne Gretzky; 2. Mario Lemieux; 3. Mark Messier; 4. Joe Sakic; 5. Steve Yzerman; 6. Sidney Crosby; 7. Ron Francis; 8. Joe Thornton; 9. Marcel Dionne; 10. Mike Modano; 11. Bryan Trottier; 12. Adam Oates; 13. Mats Sundin; 14. Phil Esposito; 15. Doug Gilmour; 16. Dale Hawerchuk


Like, it's fine if you don't know who these players are... just decline to submit a ballot rather than making a joke of it.

NHL.com has long had below average writers working for them.

They pretty much get the people who aren't "good enough" to be the lead beat writer of a team nor be a columnist for any publication.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm just going through some stats to see if I could possibly understand why she came up with that list. The closest thing I may be on to is games played or wins, because her top 7 are the top 7 for games played (since expansion), and 7 of the top 8 for wins are her top 7, but then she also doesn't have MAF in her top 16, who is 10th in games played and 5th in wins, so there has to be more to it.

I think you're right. GP also helps explain the bizarrely high placement of Murphy and Housley on the defensemen list. I'm surprised Ken Daneyko didn't show up on there.

 

[izzy]

This mother****er just rated Phil Housley and Larry Murphy over Denis Potvin and Larry Robinson.

I just about fell out of my goddamn chair reading that.

The name rang a bell, so I checked her lists for the other positions. Indeed, she was the one who did THIS on the goalie ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Martin Brodeur; 2. Patrick Roy; 3. Ed Belfour; 4. Henrik Lundqvist; 5. Roberto Luongo; 6. Tony Esposito; 7. Curtis Joseph; 8. Dominik Hasek; 9. Chris Osgood; 10. Ryan Miller; 11. Grant Fuhr; 12. Mike Vernon; 13. Pekka Rinne; 14. Andy Moog; 15. Evgeni Nabokov; 16. Tom Barrasso

And THIS on the centers ballot:

TRACEY MYERS
1. Wayne Gretzky; 2. Mario Lemieux; 3. Mark Messier; 4. Joe Sakic; 5. Steve Yzerman; 6. Sidney Crosby; 7. Ron Francis; 8. Joe Thornton; 9. Marcel Dionne; 10. Mike Modano; 11. Bryan Trottier; 12. Adam Oates; 13. Mats Sundin; 14. Phil Esposito; 15. Doug Gilmour; 16. Dale Hawerchuk


Like, it's fine if you don't know who these players are... just decline to submit a ballot rather than making a joke of it.

that is so so so bad

 

[Paul4587]

Niedermayer gets sooooo overrated by a lot of people. Some of these lists, man:

ADAM KIMELMAN
1. Bobby Orr; 2. Ray Bourque; 3. Larry Robinson; 4. Nicklas Lidstrom; 5. Scott Niedermayer; 6. Paul Coffey; 7. Brian Leetch; 8. Denis Potvin; 9. Scott Stevens; 10. Mark Howe; 11. Al MacInnis; 12. Sergei Zubov; 13. Larry Murphy; 14. Borje Salming; 15. Chris Chelios; 16. Phil Housley

TRACEY MYERS
1. Bobby Orr; 2. Ray Bourque; 3. Nicklas Lidstrom; 4. Paul Coffey; 5. Al MacInnis; 6. Scott Niedermayer; 7. Chris Chelios; 8. Phil Housley; 9. Larry Murphy; 10. Sergei Zubov; 11. Denis Potvin; 12. Brian Leetch; 13. Larry Robinson; 14. Scott Stevens; 15. Zdeno Chara; 16. Duncan Keith

What did Chris Pronger do to both of these writers that they left him off.?? Just terrible lists.

And yeah as a big Nieds fan and Ducks fan I can admit Nieds is incredibly overrated. His peak from 2003 to 2008 was incredible. But before the 2003 playoffs he was basically Jay Bouwmeester. Very good player but one that left you wanting a lot more. People forget his whole career wasn’t what it was over those 5 years.

 

[TeddyBare]

Islanders Legend Richard Park in the top 10