NHL Chicago on team nickname re cultural/political changes UPD: bans costume headdresses

[Leafmealone11]

According to your position, you don't make any distinction of the occasion to wear one so why are you asking this question?

I said I can wear what I want, I would not wear a dress to a function either because that’s my choice but if I did wear a dress is that ok even tho I am a guy? If someone decided to tell women everywhere it was disrespectful and I should not do it all of a sudden it’s not ok. It’s bull poop people can wear what they want just the act off telling people “it’s disrespectful” makes it disrespectful to them and starts the entire problem of trying to control and punish others over a hat. It’s wrong and it’s silly and the groups reasons do not justify telling others what they can and can’t wear no matter how convincing anyone tries to make it sound.
And before you say anything no a dress and a hat are not different unless your looking for made up excuses to control others and take away freedoms

 

[tarheelhockey]

I said I can wear what I want, I would not wear a dress to a function either because that’s my choice but if I did wear a dress is that ok even tho I am a guy? If someone decided to tell women everywhere it was disrespectful and I should not do it all of a sudden it’s not ok. It’s bull poop people can wear what they want just the act off telling people “it’s disrespectful” makes it disrespectful to them and starts the entire problem of trying to control and punish others over a hat. It’s wrong and it’s silly and the groups reasons do not justify telling others what they can and can’t wear no matter how convincing anyone tries to make it sound.
And before you say anything no a dress and a hat are not different unless your looking for made up excuses to control others and take away freedoms

Wearing a headdress is closer to walking around in public in military uniform with a bunch of medals on your chest, and then pulling the "I'm exercising my freedom of expression" card when confronted.

Actually maybe take the military uniform, and add a dash of wearing a priest's collar. As a costume. And telling a Catholic military veteran they're soft if they find it offensive.

 

[Leafmealone11]

Wearing a headdress is closer to walking around in public in military uniform with a bunch of medals on your chest, and then pulling the "I'm exercising my freedom of expression" card when confronted.

Actually maybe take the military uniform, and add a dash of wearing a priest's collar. As a costume. And telling a Catholic military veteran they're soft if they find it offensive.

Is it? Why? It is not at all like walking around in a military uniform. At all. Do we have people wearing headdresses being shot at and protecting our way of life as we speak? Because they are not the same at all
If people saw me in a headdress would they think I am trying to gain respect and steal honor from current headdress wearers that the entire nation recognizes as our protectors?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Is it? Why? It is not at all like walking around in a military uniform. At all. Do we have people wearing headdresses being shot at and protecting our way of life as we speak? Because they are not the same at all
If people saw me in a headdress would they think I am trying to gain respect and steal honor from current headdress wearers that the entire nation recognizes as our protectors?

The specific type of headdress that we're talking about is called a War Bonnet. Traditionally they were only permitted to be worn by warriors, and even in peaceful modern society they are required to be earned with an act of exceptional courage or honor. Receiving one is a direct equivalent to winning a war medal.

No, if you wear this out in public you are not trying to gain respect or steal honor. You're simply making a mockery of something that many people regard as religiously sacred, and which in their culture is a symbol of hard-earned war honor.

You have the freedom to show up to a Chicago Blackhawks game wearing Dress Blues and explain to everyone you meet that you are not pretending to be a Marine (don't want anyone to be confused) but merely celebrating the military heritage of the organization. After all, it's just clothes. Doesn't mean anything.

 

[Leafmealone11]

The specific type of headdress that we're talking about is called a War Bonnet. Traditionally they were only permitted to be worn by warriors, and even in peaceful modern society they are required to be earned with an act of exceptional courage or honor. Receiving one is a direct equivalent to winning a war medal.

No, if you wear this out in public you are not trying to gain respect or steal honor. You're simply making a mockery of something that many people regard as religiously sacred, and which in their culture is a symbol of hard-earned war honor.

You have the freedom to show up to a Chicago Blackhawks game wearing Dress Blues and explain to everyone you meet that you are not pretending to be a Marine (don't want anyone to be confused) but merely celebrating the military heritage of the organization. After all, it's just clothes. Doesn't mean anything.

Great and some cultures are offended if women show skin or if you have statues or draw certain things. Deeply offended.... do you care about and back their ideas and feelings because it really really matters to them.
I’m sorry if you think some old backwards feelings from hundreds of years ago matter or get to control others but that shouldn’t even be a thing and it’s nonsense to tell others what they can and can’t do. Punishing people or being offended by what they wear is not logical and it has no place in a modern society.

 

[mouser]

Great and some cultures are offended if women show skin or if you have statues or draw certain things. Deeply offended.... do you care about and back their ideas and feelings because it really really matters to them.
I’m sorry if you think some old backwards feelings from hundreds of years ago matter or get to control others but that shouldn’t even be a thing and it’s nonsense to tell others what they can and can’t do. Punishing people or being offended by what they wear is not logical and it has no place in a modern society.

Does being respectful to other people and their cultures have a place in modern society?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Great and some cultures are offended if women show skin or if you have statues or draw certain things. Deeply offended.... do you care about and back their ideas and feelings because it really really matters to them.
I’m sorry if you think some old backwards feelings from hundreds of years ago matter or get to control others but that shouldn’t even be a thing and it’s nonsense to tell others what they can and can’t do. Punishing people or being offended by what they wear is not logical and it has no place in a modern society.

Like I said, you are completely free to walk around in Dress Blues explaining that you're not pretending to be a Marine, just dressing up like one for fun. If they find that offensive, it's on them.

Also, you're totally free to put on a nun's habit and go trotting around. If they don't like it, explain that they're just perpetuating backwards ideas from hundreds of years ago. Twirl a rosary while you explain.

 

[Leafmealone11]

Does being respectful to other people and their cultures have a place in modern society?

No, the “respect” part is what we create with the control nonsense and the PC culture. If every single Native was told from the time they were born by their parents that other people wear head dresses today in honor of how great their forefathers were, when they saw people in them they would be proud and happy.
We do this to ourselves making up what’s right and wrong over meaningless nothing.

 

[daver]

No, the “respect” part is what we create with the control nonsense and the PC culture. If every single Native was told from the time they were born by their parents that other people wear head dresses today in honor of how great their forefathers were, when they saw people in them they would be proud and happy.
We do this to ourselves making up what’s right and wrong over meaningless nothing.

Pretty presumptuous of you to think you speak on behalf of "we". Isn't that what you are speaking out against -authoritarianism?

What is great about our society is that you have the choice to say whatever you want but it is not without consequences.

BTW, I am glad that in your hypothetical world, natives would feel nothing but a swell of pride when Chief Noc-A-Homa took to the field.

 

[Albatros]

No, the “respect” part is what we create with the control nonsense and the PC culture. If every single Native was told from the time they were born by their parents that other people wear head dresses today in honor of how great their forefathers were, when they saw people in them they would be proud and happy.
We do this to ourselves making up what’s right and wrong over meaningless nothing.

Native Americans are not savages or children that can't think for themselves. If you want them to be proud of a team of white people that uses an ignorant and racialized caricature of those forefathers as its identity, then you have a long way to go. We do this to ourselves by not including the Native Americans, by not letting them to choose what the accurate representation is if we want to borrow elements from their culture.

 

[Leafmealone11]

Pretty presumptuous of you to think you speak on behalf of "we". Isn't that what you are speaking out against -authoritarianism?

What is great about our society is that you have the choice to say whatever you want but it is not without consequences.

BTW, I am glad that in your hypothetical world, natives would feel nothing but a swell of pride when Chief Noc-A-Homa took to the field.

You are trying to justify bigotry and opression make whatever excuses you want it is wrong. Hide behind 'respect for others'
Lets say you see a guy by himself in his feather hat, he talks to no one, he does nothing he sits there. There is zero disrespect going on nothing is wrong with that but because you were told it's disrespect all of a sudden you get to play justified bully and act better than them and get to exert your power and control. You gang up with others and force the weak(one lone person) to submit
Its the same old crap that humans have been trying to free themselves from for thousands of years.

 

[Leafmealone11]

Native Americans are not savages or children that can't think for themselves. If you want them to be proud of a team of white people that uses an ignorant and racialized caricature of those forefathers as its identity, then you have a long way to go. We do this to ourselves by not including the Native Americans, by not letting them to choose what the accurate representation is if we want to borrow elements from their culture.

Im sorry but religious people are not savag and they can think for themselves too but they think what they are taught just like you and I. Being taught things are disrespectfull makes them feel disrespected. Wearing a hat should never be treated or taught as disrespect.
We don't need to 'borrow' its not thiers a race can't lay claim to ideas or clothing and have groups punish others for stealing from them. Do you have any understanding of what that actually is?
Oyyy

 

[tarheelhockey]

We don't need to 'borrow' its not thiers a race can't lay claim to ideas or clothing and have groups punish others for stealing from them.

Except in this case the headdress actually is being stolen from their culture.

We’re not talking about a generic “hat”, but about a specific type of ceremonial gear which is sacred to a specific culture. There is no purpose in wearing it other than to imitate those people. No reasonable human being would walk around wearing a Native headdress and think “I’m wearing a hat”.

 

[Ezekial]

The same people that reduce a headdress to "a hat" are also the type of people that lose their minds over flags.

 

[John Mandalorian]

One of these things is not like the others...

The 100% whitewashing of logos would be problematic in its own right. I'm not saying the current logo is the solution, but if the style of portraiture is the issue, then maybe we have an opportunity to fix that issue and create a positive change.

There’s no “we” here.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There’s no “we” here.

Don’t know what you mean by that.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Don’t know what you mean by that.

It’s a binary world. There are people who like to complain about things like this. Then there’s everyone else who hate the people that like to complain so much. It shouldn’t be a surprise that people hate bullies and thought police, especially when the two become one.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It’s a binary world.

Not really.

There are people who like to complain about things like this.

Maybe. It does not follow that every person who objects to something is also a person who enjoys objecting to things. This is one of many ways in which the world is, in fact, not at all binary.

It shouldn’t be a surprise that people hate bullies and thought police, especially when the two become one.

Nobody was talking about policing people's thoughts. Actions that take place in the public square are valid targets for criticism.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not really.



Maybe. It does not follow that every person who objects to something is also a person who enjoys objecting to things. This is one of many ways in which the world is, in fact, not at all binary.



Nobody was talking about policing people's thoughts. Actions that take place in the public square are valid targets for criticism.

Maybe that was the case 5-10 years ago. But it's certainly the case now. Here's another way to show the dichotomy in the world today: there are people who like to lecture others and then there are others who hate being lectured. This is where things are now. Sorry if you don't see it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Maybe that was the case 5-10 years ago. But it's certainly the case now. Here's another way to show the dichotomy in the world today: there are people who like to lecture others and then there are others who hate being lectured. This is where things are now. Sorry if you don't see it.

What about someone who likes to lecture others and also hates to be lectured?

What about someone with no real opinion on lectures?

 

[Daximus]

Funny after all these decades, now suddenly the people that find these team names problematic didn't make a fuss about it till now when it became trendy.

Didn't you ever watch Mighty Ducks 3? The girl Charlie Conway is after is trying to get a petition signed to change the name of the Eden Hall Warriors. Stuff like this has been happening for decades now already. Its just that it's all gaining steam in one exact moment in time.

 

[LadyStanley]

Blackhawks statue defaced at United Center

Statue at United Center of logo defaced over the weekend.

Quotes Athletic article (paywall)
Blackhawks logo statue at United Center gets defaced with spray paint, graffiti

Team plans to restore statute put up for 75th anniversary of franchise.

 

[OskarOskarius]

I'm glad they are taking a thoughtful approach and not overly politicizing this in either direction.

Given that the name is not a direct caricature of Native Americans, there's an opportunity to leverage it for education and inclusiveness. It would be a shame to lose that opportunity thoughtlessly, given the general lack of representation for Native history and culture in the mainstream.

I can only laugh at the absurdity of it all. The Blackhawks is an example of the use of native history and culture in the mainstream. The Blackhawks are representing a sports team, something masculine and strong, how is this insulting to Indians? Let’s ban the last Mohican as well, it is racist to represent Indians as masculine and cool!

 

[OskarOskarius]

Blackhawks statue defaced at United Center

Statue at United Center of logo defaced over the weekend.

Quotes Athletic article (paywall)
Blackhawks logo statue at United Center gets defaced with spray paint, graffiti

Team plans to restore statute put up for 75th anniversary of franchise.

Let’s take a wild guess who did this crime. Hint: NOT REAL INDIANS. Hey why not ban the Vikings while we are at it? Let’s ban everything that is masculine and cool.

 

[Pandemonia]

Let’s take a wild guess who did this crime. Hint: NOT REAL INDIANS. Hey why not ban the Vikings while we are at it? Let’s ban everything that is masculine and cool.

I'd settle for banning just the stuff thats masculine and UNcool.