Prospect Info: NHL 2013 Draft || Episode III: Revenge of the Seth || Avs win the draft lottery
- Thread starter Freudian
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I'm probably the only Avs fan who is happy about Florida losing. Hopefully they win the lottery, take Jones and the Avalanche have there choice between Mac and Drouin. Worst case another team wins the lotto and we draft 3rd overall, getting whoever is left of Mac/Drouin.
I want MacKinnon or Drouin, so 29th is ideal for me
I'm with you on this to be honest, the Forwards are much more of a sure thing and we actually have some young guns breaking in on the back end. Siemens could end up being the fix our defense needs along with at least one veteran UFA.
We don't have any blue chip offensive prospects besides Sgarbossa (Yes I think Sgar is a blue-chip prospect, just because he isn't getting hyped does not mean he doesn't have amazing skill.), and how can anyone really have any hope for Hishon? I would love him to make the NHL but no way can you even think about him at this point.
I'll be happy with any of the three, but I want a forward at this point. There looks to be a few big left handed defenders with offensive upside at the end of the first round or at the top of the second.
I'd love a Mackinnon/Hagg draft, that's the place I'd like to see us move up a few spots if that's what it takes. Hagg is rated to go anywhere from the early second to late first, and he plays against men in Modo.
- Dec 2, 2007
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It's hilarious how many people are so quick to say Jones isn't going to turn out to be the best defender in his draft primarily because he is being discussed as a #1 pick. If he went #2 overall and became a #1 defender and was nominated for a Norris within 5 years people would probably be questioning why he didn't go #1 over MacKinnon or Drouin.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm?year=&team=&position=D&round=1
I want all you Jones haters to go back through this list and tell me the odds of us draft a defender that is not the best in the first round. Feel free to go further and tell me the odds of not drafting the best defender in the draft.
All you have to do is compare the first defender taken with the best defender in the draft.
In the modern age of draft defenders have been getting selected in the early rounds at an alarmingly accurate rate. Compare 1990's 1st round defenders to the 00's and early '10s. Scouts are starting to figure it all out and more often than not the first defender taken is in the top four picks and turns out to be the best or second best in the draft.
That's not to be confused with getting good value in the 2nd round and later, but do you want Doughty or Voynov? Hedman or Elliott?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftsearch.htm?year=&team=&position=D&round=1
I want all you Jones haters to go back through this list and tell me the odds of us draft a defender that is not the best in the first round. Feel free to go further and tell me the odds of not drafting the best defender in the draft.
All you have to do is compare the first defender taken with the best defender in the draft.
In the modern age of draft defenders have been getting selected in the early rounds at an alarmingly accurate rate. Compare 1990's 1st round defenders to the 00's and early '10s. Scouts are starting to figure it all out and more often than not the first defender taken is in the top four picks and turns out to be the best or second best in the draft.
That's not to be confused with getting good value in the 2nd round and later, but do you want Doughty or Voynov? Hedman or Elliott?
CantTouchThis
Registered User
It's not that we don't want Jones, it's that we want Mackinnon (or Drouin). I don't think anybody on this board will be disapointed if we pick Jones.
Nihiliste
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- Feb 8, 2010
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Jones is 1st on my list but I actually did this exercise a couple thread iterations ago from 2000-2010. The first defensemen picked is rarely the best defenseman in the draft (though often 2nd, 3rd or 4th best as you mention) whereas the top forward pick is more likely to be a dominant player, and at a younger age.
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
i think most of the people who want the forward over Jones are similar to 80% of NHL fans. they want offense and excitement.
our offense is not that good, adding one of Drouin or MacKinnon instantly upgrades the offense makes us more deadly.
me personally i want Jones in a bad way. he fixes a lot of issues and is the best player in the draft. that said, defensemen tend to take longer to develop than forwards.
our offense is not that good, adding one of Drouin or MacKinnon instantly upgrades the offense makes us more deadly.
me personally i want Jones in a bad way. he fixes a lot of issues and is the best player in the draft. that said, defensemen tend to take longer to develop than forwards.
- Dec 2, 2007
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We're almost 100% not drafting #1, which means we're not comparing Jones to the #1 forward but the #2 forward in every draft now.
Seems rather obvious to me, if Jones is on the board at #2, we have to be taking him.
Nihiliste
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- Feb 8, 2010
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Agreed, you have to take him regardless of whether its at 1 or 2.
Ironically I'd argue EJ in 2006 is actually one of the drafts where the first dman taken is the best in the draft. Pretty bad draft for defensemen.
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
if Jones is on the board at our pick and we pass on him...
i just can't fathom what i will do to Lacroix,Sherman and Pracey.
that would be utter nonsense. we better sprint to the podium and take him.
I'd be happy either way. I think Jones would be better for our franchise in the long run, but watching Mac or Drouin would be more exciting.
2014 1st + 2013 2nd + Tyson Barrie + Ryan Wilson for the #3 overall.
Draft Mack and Jones.
Trade Stastny for MDZ/Yandle.
One can dream, cant they?
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
2014 1st + 2013 2nd + Tyson Barrie + Ryan Wilson for the #3 overall.
Draft Mack and Jones.
Trade Stastny for MDZ/Yandle.
I don't like your dreams.
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
2014 1st + 2013 2nd + Tyson Barrie + Ryan Wilson for the #3 overall.
Draft Mack and Jones.
Trade Stastny for MDZ/Yandle.
your dreams suck
ANewHope
Nuggets|Avs|Broncos
- May 26, 2011
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How many people would have guessed that OEL would be better than Hedman? Erik Karlsson being better than Doughty and as good as he's been winning a Norris already? I remember the EJ hype. It's funny because back than he was guaranteed to be a franchise defensemen and I remember people arguing he'd go 1st overall in the 2007 draft as well. What about 2007? Shatty being better than Hickey?
Do we not remember the draft before last? Larsson was a man among boys out there, playing with grown men, a sure fire #1 no doubt about it. Not looking like that anymore, atleast to me. Still a solid defensemen with tons of time to be that player but hasn't met the expectations people set early on.
Defensemen are waaay harder to project than forwards. Nobody saw Karlsson winning a Norris trophy on draft day, people saw guys like Taylor Hall producing points.
That's my issue with Jones. I think you have two sure fire offensive prospects in Drouin and Nate that you just don't pass up on. I don't know alot about Jones but I've heard the song and dance before, I don't trust how he'll project. Not to mention we've got some solid youth on the back end, what Colorado is lacking is a established defensemen to pair with EJ. I'd rather an established D man than Seth Jones.
I won't be disappointed if we get him, obviously he's a great prospect but I feel alot safer with Mac/Drouin than Jones. Rather we move Staz in a package + FA to shore up the back end.
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
- Aug 8, 2006
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Who are these "haters"?
This doesn't make sense, the avs aren't picking between a doughty or an Elliott. It's who would you rather have Stamkos or Doughty? Tavares/Duchene or Hedman?
RIGHT NOW the answer is an easy one.
And I dislike people who judge draft history than watching Jones on a daily basis.
- Feb 24, 2012
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So there are basically 3 teams we could realistiacally pass... Tampa, Carolina, and Nashville. It would be nice if each of those teams won at least 1 more game. Their remaining schedules:
Tampa: Toronto, @Boston, Florida
Carolina: NYI, NYR, @Pitt (probably resting players)
Nashville: Calgary, @Detroit, @Columbus
It looks like each team has at least 1 winnable game.
Tampa: Toronto, @Boston, Florida
Carolina: NYI, NYR, @Pitt (probably resting players)
Nashville: Calgary, @Detroit, @Columbus
It looks like each team has at least 1 winnable game.
your dreams suck
You're crazy if you wouldn't do that first trade.
Mack and Drouin added to our Offense and Yandle/MDZ on our Defense. We would make playoffs next year.
ANewHope
Nuggets|Avs|Broncos
- May 26, 2011
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I don't remember asking who you disliked, reading comprehension is a must.
History in alot of cases dictates the future. Is it 100%? Obviously not. No doubt it has more to do with Jones than anything. I really don't watch him alot. Between Avs games, Nuggets or whatever is on I don't have the time to watch an entire WHL season as well. I've read reports, others opinions, watched highlights etc. and all that jazz and in all that nothing has separated him from somebody like Erik Johnson for example. If you are old enough to remember the talk and buzz about him, you know that Johnson probably had more hype actually.
Defensemen are harder to project. It's harder to tell what they will on the next level, how they will progress etc. than with forwards. You can argue that if you want but at the top of the draft, this is generally the case.
Drouin and Mack are as close to being a lock for a top 6 player as you'll get. You know what, I might actually like there ceiling better too.
At the end of the day for me it's a mixture of really really liking the top 2 forwards prospects, not falling in love with what I've seen from Jones(granted not alot, I'm sure the vast majority of NHL draft guys know way more than I do about him) and the fact that forwards project easier than defensemen. So given that, easy choice for me. I'd rather our backend be fixed with established players, don't want some 19 year old being forced in as the savior on one of the worst blue line cores in the entire league. Already have enough of that with Barrie, Elliot, Duncan. Get EJ an established vet to play with by moving Staz(opened up if we get Mack) and than try and make a move via FA. That along with Barrie, Elliot, Duncan getting a year older as well as Wilson getting healthy hopefully should be a solid improvement.
We lack high end skill as much as defensemen.
Nihiliste
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- Feb 8, 2010
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I think Carolina and Nashville will probably lose out.
Tampa might beat Florida.
We'll probably lose both our road games as well.
This is going to be right down to the wire.
your dreams suck
What about trading EJ to Tampa for #3, and then seeing if we can get Florida to flip #1 for #3, It would take a a little more, but we could then draft Jones and Mackinnon.
This one is for all the EJ haters out there. I wouldn't trade EJ for the #3 personally.
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