NFL: Chargers to London??

[Centrum Hockey]

It will never happen.

NFLPA will not allow it. Guys do not want to move there after spending their entire life in NA..... the only similarities between say Atlanta and London is the language. It would be a massive culture shock. Then you have issues like currency, yea they will get paid in USD but to buy stuff there they will need pounds.... if they wanna drive there obviously they sit on the other side of the car and their roads are very different.... unlikely a player will want to move his family across the pond.

Never mind that a visiting team would be at a disadvantage, fly in Friday, play Sunday and then back on the plane Sunday night or Monday morning. & trying to say "oh well, maybe they will travel earlier and leave later / give them another day or two" won't work because guys would rather be back home.

As other users have said, its just going to be used as a leverage tool now that LA has two teams.



The league screwed over Oakland and now they are paying for it. Should have declined the Chargers/Raiders proposal (as they actually did) and told the Raiders to move in with the Rams & for Spanos to stay in SD. Instead the Raiders are going to go make a stupid amount of money in Vegas while the Chargers have attendance issues.

They should have at least looked into giving the Chargers the chance to rename themselves or allow the Chargers and Raiders to swap franchises.

 

[David Dennison]

There are also rumblings that he isn't living up to his end of the bargain already with the new stadium
Spanos is a piece of work

Rams, Chargers Reportedly Feuding Over New Stadium

Yeah my guess is Spanos is still pissed about how it all went down and is fine being a drag on the NFL/Rams/LA until someone builds a stadium for him. He still gets his part of the shared revenue, and the league can't really make him sell his team.

But the stadium funding issues are mostly of Kroenkes own creation, he promised the moon and to make everyone happy in order to get LA over the Raiders/Charger proposal. He promised to take a 2nd team as a tenant, he promised to cover overruns, he promised NFL studios, he promised to cover the STL lawsuits, he chose an imperfect site (with LAX nearby).

Now the chickens are coming home to roost, like nobody saw a 2nd team being a failure (or worse a drag on the Rams)? Nobody saw billions in overruns trying to build a massive project in LA? The FAA issues were well known with the land. He just lost his appeal to send the big STL lawsuit to arbitration, so now J. Jones, Goodell's, Kroenke's, etc emails are gonna be fair game for discovery. The league is gonna make him settle so their dirty laundry isn't aired in public.

 

[Lt Dan]

Indeed

I have friends who work for majestic realty, who was spearheading one of the LA stadiums (City of Industry)
The NFL insisted even back then that their plans included room for a second home team.

LA doesn't have a big rivalry with San Diego, but many Los Angelinos have hated the Spanos' for years because he was claiming LA as part of his territory and even more for his constant threats of moving here that never came to fruition.

It is going to be interesting to see what comes out of the STL lawsuit. But I have a feeling that the image conscious NFL will use all of it's power to try to push all parties to settle out of court

 

[MikeCubs]

If memory serves, the NFL mandates 60,000 as the minimum capacity for a permanent stadium, so they'd have to either further expand it or have it be temporary until a new stadium is built.

That all being said, it'd be moot point if Spanos is the owner. He's persona non grata for very good reason in San Diego.

And realistically, Spanos screwed over not one, not two, but three markets with his vainglory. San Diego, for obvious reasons. LA, for preventing them from getting the team that the market really wanted, the Raiders. And Las Vegas, as I can't help but think that the Raiders would be looking longterm at a move whenever their lease expires back to their preferred destination if LA reverts back to a one-team market.

I heard the same thing about the 60,000 capacity minimum but that isn't the case anymore. The Raiders proposed new stadium in Oakland was only 55,000 capacity.

Raiders thinking small when it comes to Oakland stadium – The Mercury News

I agree Spanos can't come back to San Diego. He's going to give it 4-5 years in the new LA stadium to see if he can build a fan base. The stadium will be spectacular so who knows. If it don't work it's not impossible he sells to a San Diego owners.

The Raiders lease in Vegas is 30 years through 2049. The Raiders have exceeded PSL projections with only a few left to sell in the 3rd deck. With PSL sales so successful the Raiders are spending another $130M on making the new stadium more fancy.

Raiders seat licenses for Allegiant Stadium nearly sold out

 

[Lt Dan]

I heard the same thing about the 60,000 capacity minimum but that isn't the case anymore. The Raiders proposed new stadium in Oakland was only 55,000 capacity.

Raiders thinking small when it comes to Oakland stadium – The Mercury News

I agree Spanos can't come back to San Diego. He's going to give it 4-5 years in the new LA stadium to see if he can build a fan base. The stadium will be spectacular so who knows. If it don't work it's not impossible he sells to a San Diego owners.

The Raiders lease in Vegas is 30 years through 2049. The Raiders have exceeded PSL projections with only a few left to sell in the 3rd deck. With PSL sales so successful the Raiders are spending another $130M on making the new stadium more fancy.

Raiders seat licenses for Allegiant Stadium nearly sold out

But his team is viewed like the Clippers, while the Rams are the Lakers. The odds of the team catching on, especially with the Rams currently doing well are very low

 

[No Fun Shogun]

If the LA Chargers were as popular as the Clippers, they'd be just fine and not remotely rumored as a relocation candidate. Clippers are definitely the little brother in LA, but they have a dedicated fanbase and a swell of bandwagon support versus the Chargers being absolutely hated the moment they arrived at worst to wholly ambivalent at best.

 

[Voight]

Some of the past proposals I've seen don't call for the players to spend all that time living in England. There were proposals for the primary training facilities to be located on the east coast. The games in London would be batched up so the team could do them in 3-5 "road" trips.

I heard about that, but the jet lag will kill. Flying into London Thurs/Fri and then coming back Monday so you can be in the US for practice? Multiple times a year for the home team.... it would be hell.

They should have at least looked into giving the Chargers the chance to rename themselves or allow the Chargers and Raiders to swap franchises.

While not the worst idea, there is 0 chance Davis would have agreed to that. The Raiders are his fathers legacy and something he's been around his entire life.

Plus I think he always knew LV was an option if the league blocked him from LA..

 

[David Dennison]

I heard about that, but the jet lag will kill. Flying into London Thurs/Fri and then coming back Monday so you can be in the US for practice? Multiple times a year for the home team.... it would be hell.



While not the worst idea, there is 0 chance Davis would have agreed to that. The Raiders are his fathers legacy and something he's been around his entire life.

Plus I think he always knew LV was an option if the league blocked him from LA..

The big issue with swapping teams is that it would probably trigger capital gains on the owners investment in the franchise. If that wasn't an issue, we could very well have had Spanos in a largely publicly funded stadium in STL and Kroenke getting the Chargers in LA.

 

[MikeCubs]

Looking at a possible San Diego return....

The Chargers last stadium proposal that was voted down was for a 65,000 seat stadium that had 12o luxury boxes, 50 loge boxes with 7500 club seats with a retractable roof and a $600M convention center attached.

The cost break down went like this if i'm not mistaken

team-$350M
NFL-$300M
city- $350M
city land-$200M
the city also had to pay $600M for a convention center attached to the stadium.

The last proposal also had a retractable roof which added $250M to $300M of cost. So between the roof and convention center you had an extra $850 to $900M in cost/waste. Total public cost was $1.150B counting the convention center. The record for a public stadium NFL subsudy is $750M for the Las Vegas Raiders.

Now look at the current San Diego state stadium/expansion plan. $250M is paid for by the university by build the 35,000 seats. No word on the cost to make it 55,000 seats/other NFL ready stuff including the canopy but my guess is around $750M making the total cost about $1B.

If the NFL contributes the $300M and the team say $250M since it's less fancy than the old proposal plus they would be a tennant to the university you are up to $800M. Could San Diego pass say $200M ish in public money instead of an insane $1.1B???

The expansion proposal would seat 55,000 with 6500 club seats and 82 luxury boxes and 50 loge boxes. Soldier Field is the current smallest stadium with 61,500. Jacksonville has the least luxury boxes with 88 though they have no loge boxes. The 6500 club seats are more than the 6000 the new Vegas stadium will have.

 

[BruinsFan37]

If any of the "major" makes the jump across the pond to Europe it will be the NFL. The once a week schedule of the NFL is the only thing that makes it remotely feasible.

 

[Voight]

The big issue with swapping teams is that it would probably trigger capital gains on the owners investment in the franchise. If that wasn't an issue, we could very well have had Spanos in a largely publicly funded stadium in STL and Kroenke getting the Chargers in LA.

Good point, thought I'm not sure Spanos would have cared to have a team in STL, especially as a life long Californian. League also doesn't care enough about St Louis in the first place, especially because the only got the Rams due to Frontieres desire to have a team in her home town.

Also IIRC didn't St Louis only come up with a stadium plan in the 11th hour when Kroenke had already decided to move the team back home to LA? So as far as publicly funded stadiums go, they certainly weren't dying to build one.

 

[mouser]

I heard about that, but the jet lag will kill. Flying into London Thurs/Fri and then coming back Monday so you can be in the US for practice? Multiple times a year for the home team.... it would be hell.

You're going to deal with Jet lag either way if that's a London-based team flying to the US.

 

[Voight]

You're going to deal with Jet lag either way if that's a London-based team flying to the US.

Exactly, which is just one of the issues. Players are going to hate that.

IMO theres too many negatives and not enough positives.

 

[gstommylee]

The bigger issue with why a London team won't happen is labor laws are potentially different than what there is in the US and canada. So does the NBA have to modify the CBA to deal with 3 different sets of laws.

 

[OKOptimistic]

How the hell would they travel back and forth between London and the US. That will be a major disadvantage for the Chargers and the visiting team. I've seen some London games and they are sloppy af and the players get hurt because they are jet-lagged. There is also no guarantee they can fill up a stadium for 8 games in London. The logistics doesn't make sense.

 

[Deleted member 93465]

Jaguars owner Shad Khan hints at need for new stadium

Shad Khan talking about needing a new stadium in Jacksonville, 100% coincidence I am sure.

Wink.

London is gonna be the new LA, owners will threaten to move there to get public subsidies for new stadiums in their current market.

The only difference is that London isn't lining up to build the NFL a stadium, which is what these threats are all about. And they never will.

London has five potential venues for the NFL. None of them would be owned by an NFL owner, outside Emirates Stadium, which is the home to Arsenal and owned by Stan Kroenke. But something tells me Kroenke, who just moved to LA to a brand new stadium, is just fine with what has happened to the Rams.

That means any NFL owner who moved their team wouldn't own the facility. So why would they move at all?

Khan tried to buy Wembley but was turned down.

The London 'threat' is nothing like LA.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Good point, thought I'm not sure Spanos would have cared to have a team in STL, especially as a life long Californian. League also doesn't care enough about St Louis in the first place, especially because the only got the Rams due to Frontieres desire to have a team in her home town.

Also IIRC didn't St Louis only come up with a stadium plan in the 11th hour when Kroenke had already decided to move the team back home to LA? So as far as publicly funded stadiums go, they certainly weren't dying to build one.

Stan Kroenke probably started planing the move the day he bought the team. He offered to help fund a renovation to the dome that would have given it a retractable roof but the rams only wanted a 10 year lease and it would have been more expensive than a new stadium. It gave him an out once the city rejected it.

 

[HisIceness]

The NFL will regret putting a team in London if they ever have the balls to actually do it. It will be even more of a disaster than the Chargers in L.A. has been.

 

[TheLegend]

That 35,000 seat stadium they are building is expandable to 55,000 for an NFL return.

SDSU Releases Football Stadium Renderings

A bit of history.....

Qualcomm was originally built for the MLB Padres, and then was expanded to accomidate the Chargers..... then the Chargers over the years slowly and methodically took control of the facility and eventually pushed the Padres out.

SDSU isn't going to allow that to happen to them and Spanos isn't going to be willing to pay rent.

Besides SDSU is also looking to upgrade it's football program footprint, and the Holiday Bowl would need that 55k capacity the be considered for any future BCS consideration.

And quite simply as has been said many times..... nobody in San Diego will deal with Dean Spanos.

 

[Voight]

Stan Kroenke probably started planing the move the day he bought the team. He offered to help fund a renovation to the dome that would have given it a retractable roof but the rams only wanted a 10 year lease and it would have been more expensive than a new stadium. It gave him an out once the city rejected it.

& I don't blame him. For one, the Rams belong in LA. Then its obviously a huge market with a lot of money to play with.

 

[Lt Dan]

And quite simply as has been said many times..... nobody in San Diego will deal with Dean Spanos.

this is the most important and true thing said in the entire thread

 

[edog37]

If memory serves, the NFL mandates 60,000 as the minimum capacity for a permanent stadium, so they'd have to either further expand it or have it be temporary until a new stadium is built.

That all being said, it'd be moot point if Spanos is the owner. He's persona non grata for very good reason in San Diego.

And realistically, Spanos screwed over not one, not two, but three markets with his vainglory. San Diego, for obvious reasons. LA, for preventing them from getting the team that the market really wanted, the Raiders. And Las Vegas, as I can't help but think that the Raiders would be looking longterm at a move whenever their lease expires back to their preferred destination if LA reverts back to a one-team market.

they probably worked out a waiver on the 60,000 seat rule...

Spanos didn't screw LA in the slightest. The Rams were the preferred team, not the Raiders. The Raiders have a following in LA, but the Rams were always the targeted team. They played in LA for nearly 50 years the first time. The Raiders played there 12. Plus, the Raiders signed a 30 year lease with Vegas, that's some serious projection going out that long to see what the franchise will do.

 

[Lt Dan]

As a Los Angelino, let me break this down from a local perspective

Spanos didn't screw LA in the slightest.

Very untrue. But for more reasons than whwhat NFShogun posted

Spanos had been claiming the LA market as his territory for years. Depending on who you believe, he proactively would block teams from moving here and the word is fought hard to keep the Rams from coming back but Jerry Jones pushed harder for them to return.
Spanos also constantly broke LA's heart threatening to move to LA and constantly having moving talks with people who building the stadiums. I am not talking initial talks, word is everytime they were about to sign something, Spanos would backtrack.
I know this is the case for sure with the Industry site. Word is he was ready to move in the proposed downtown stadium (which would have been where the LA Convention center is. There are two stories there one being that he pulled his usual game the other being that AEG wanted a stake the Chargers wouldn't sell them any of the team.

LA, for preventing them from getting the team that the market really wanted, the Raiders.

The Rams were the preferred team, not the Raiders. The Raiders have a following in LA, but the Rams were always the targeted team. They played in LA for nearly 50 years the first time. The Raiders played there 12. Plus, the Raiders signed a 30 year lease with Vegas, that's some serious projection going out that long to see what the franchise will do.

The Raiders are still beloved here and were seen as LA's team by many, much more than the Rams.
Raiders games were shown on local TV here for years. Not the case for the Rams

I can tell you as long time Los Angelino, that many turned their back on the Rams when they moved to Orange County and also turned their back because of how crazy Georgia F (she will be referred to as "The Devil" going forward). Even though Al was seen as crazy, the devil was the greater of the two evils. Raiders games were shown on the local independent stations and the Radiers still had stores in LA selling their gear

Once the devil died many here really warmed back up the Rams returning and once Big Stan bought Hollywood Park and talked about building a stadium there everyone got excited, this looked like we were finally going to get a team back.
Once is was announced that the either the Chargers or the Raiders were going to be the other tenants. People overwhelmingly wanted that team to be the Raiders.
Most here think the Chargers moving here was as a much of an FU to the Raiders as it was to San Diego. Most also believe that the Chargers aren't playing in the Collesium because it was where the Raiders played and is still seen as the Raiders old stadium

 

[No Fun Shogun]

they probably worked out a waiver on the 60,000 seat rule...

Spanos didn't screw LA in the slightest. The Rams were the preferred team, not the Raiders. The Raiders have a following in LA, but the Rams were always the targeted team. They played in LA for nearly 50 years the first time. The Raiders played there 12. Plus, the Raiders signed a 30 year lease with Vegas, that's some serious projection going out that long to see what the franchise will do.

There are two types of LA fans:

1) those that wanted a team back (as long as it wasn't the Raiders), and
2) those that wanted the Raiders back.

Rams fulfilled #1, and even longtime Rams fans probably would've adopted almost any relocation team that wasn't the Raiders. If the Jags or Bills had decided to bolt instead, they'd have a former-Rams fanbase in LA without issue plus the loads of people that grew up in LA after the Rams moved out to begin with.

The second group is smaller but much more vocal. There are countless Los Angelenos that wanted the Raiders back at all costs and were actively clamoring for it for years. To them, the Chargers are the sole reason that their team didn't come back, and there will be a hatred there for eternity directed at Spanos and the team.

So, the Bolts moved into a market having no chance at #1 already due to being the second team in and having an even more negative relationship with #2. Fan reaction was ambivalent at best to hostile at worst with nothing going for them other than maybe contrarian supporters that go against the grain, but really with no avenue for success. Everybody saw the impending failure other than Spanos.

Didn't realize the lease was 30 years, so that's solid protection for Vegas at least. He definitely screwed San Diego and LA (at least group #2 of LA), though.

 

[Lt Dan]

There are two types of LA fans:

1) those that wanted a team back (as long as it wasn't the Raiders), and
2) those that wanted the Raiders back.

well said