OT: NFL 15 Off Season Thread III

[Vtwin]

Quicker? Just about all of them.

And those are over legitimate issues, not garbage BS over allegedly slightly deflated footballs.

Ok. Like which ones?

And its not about deflated footballs. Its about going around the rules and the steps in place to enforce those rules.

But that's been said a hundred times already. I'm getting dizzy......

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I think it's important to distinguish between "the league" and "some people that work for the league, within its front offices" ... the NFL isn't a singular entity, so while I'd 100% agree that "the NFL" wasn't out to get a team, I would say it's more than realistic that certain people (maybe as few as one) that work for the NFL were interested in bringing down the Patriots and/or Belichick, and that person (or people) is what started this whole mess.

Exactly this. And the rivals and haters jumped on the banwagon.

 

[LSCII]

Ok. Like which ones?

And its not about deflated footballs. Its about going around the rules and the steps in place to enforce those rules.

But that's been said a hundred times already. I'm getting dizzy......

I've been avoiding this discussion and your posts specifically because the circular logic you've been employing shows a clear bias and a presumption of guilt rather than innocence. Do you find it validating to point out potential areas of "cheating" by other teams/players when the league itself is proliferated with players crushing inhuman amounts of HGH and steroids to gain an edge? Because I personally find it hypocritical. It's why I don't get bent out of shape about crap like the Chargers using stick em or Atlanta (and Indy) piping in crowd noise. Or teams contacting free agents early and tampering. It happens. Teams blur the lines to get an advantage. Players take PEDs to gain an advantage. And it happens every game. Every play. Every day.

So holding only one team to a higher standard is a joke, and shows you lack any shred of objectivity, IMO. Unless your goal was to come in and troll the Patriots fan base here. If that was what you wanted, consider it a successful foray.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I've been avoiding this discussion and your posts specifically because the circular logic you've been employing shows a clear bias and a presumption of guilt rather than innocence. Do you find it validating to point out potential areas of "cheating" by other teams/players when the league itself is proliferated with players crushing inhuman amounts of HGH and steroids to gain an edge? Because I personally find it hypocritical. It's why I don't get bent out of shape about crap like the Chargers using stick em or Atlanta (and Indy) piping in crowd noise. Or teams contacting free agents early and tampering. It happens. Teams blur the lines to get an advantage. Players take PEDs to gain an advantage. And it happens every game. Every play. Every day.

So holding only one team to a higher standard is a joke, and shows you lack any shred of objectivity, IMO. Unless your goal was to come in and troll the Patriots fan base here. If that was what you wanted, consider it a successful foray.

Amen to that, its been like this for 2 days now

 

[Therick67]

Amen to that, its been like this for 2 days now

I'm not sure why I bothered responding to him in the first place, but I'm done.

 

[the overrated]

I suppose it is possible but they would have to be very important people to get all the other owners and bigshots to turn a blind eye while they risk the reputation of the entire league to seek vengeance on a personal vendetta.

I don't think "all the other owners" were consulted ahead of time; I'd be shocked if more than a few were involved at all. And I also don't think that those involved thought it was a risk. They presumed that it was a slam dunk case & that they had the Pats (or, more likely, Belichick as an individual) dead to rights.

That, IMO, is why there's been so many leaks to the league's mouthpiece (ESPN) - damage control to try & cover up how broken this situation had become, once it became more & more apparent that the slam dunk case was an airball (no pun intended).

 

[Bruwinz37]

They drag EVERYTHING out. Cite some examples of quicker turnarounds.

If someone gave you a hypothetical issue where a small rule was broken but no one had a shred of evidence that it was intentional and the punishment was completely outrageous....as in a punishment that almost exceeds anything the league has ever handed out would you feel that is just? Take out the fact you hate (read jealous) the Pats and Brady. Once you tell me you agree with excessive punishments where there is no proof of guilt and findings were sloppy and inconsistent then I will know where you stand.

 

[Vtwin]

I don't think "all the other owners" were consulted ahead of time; I'd be shocked if more than a few were involved at all. And I also don't think that those involved thought it was a risk. They presumed that it was a slam dunk case & that they had the Pats (or, more likely, Belichick as an individual) dead to rights.

That, IMO, is why there's been so many leaks to the league's mouthpiece (ESPN) - damage control to try & cover up how broken this situation had become, once it became more & more apparent that the slam dunk case was an airball (no pun intended).

Quite possible.

Maybe I'm naïve but if I were an owner I would be at least knowledgeable if not directly involved in something this significant. I can see initially "trusting" those that brought this up but it quickly became a very controversial situation and there was a perfect opportunity for the sane among the NFL to pressure the guy who works for them to do whatever it took to end this on the appeal.

 

[CDJ]

A) Don't feel bad for 49ers fans ever. Stabbings and shooting at every god damn game.

B) Ron Wolf, you just got added to the list buddy

 

[bb_fan]

They drag EVERYTHING out. Cite some examples of quicker turnarounds.

horse crap response.

you want to try and prove that the NFL had such huge commitments this summer that they had to wait until the start of training camp to issue their appeal ruling, feel free, but don't ask me to do it for you.

 

[Vtwin]

horse crap response.

you want to try and prove that the NFL had such huge commitments this summer that they had to wait until the start of training camp to issue their appeal ruling, feel free, but don't ask me to do it for you.

They did the same thing to Hardy.

When did the Hardy case start as compared to the Brady case?

You may want to look into that.

 

[Trap Jesus]

The biggest franchise blowup in sports history continues with Aldon Smith getting cut by the 49ers.

 

[amazingcrwns]

Once this blows over, we can plan on seeing you again in what, 2021, when the Patriots will lose a 1st round pick, be fined $1 million dollars, and have a player suspended for six games for not wearing a league approved cleat?

He's not being suspended 6 games for the illegal cleat, it's for not being cooperative with the investigation because he refused to turn over the dirt that had clumped up on the bottom of the shoe during the game.

Cleaning the dirt off of the bottom of the shoe is the most ill advised, irresponsible activity that investigator Wells has ever seen when looking into a matter as sensitive as this one.

 

[Vtwin]

You've spent the better parts of 3 days in this thread alone, arguing with a group of mainly Patriot's fans that they're wrong, and you say I'm ridiculous? I think you should get a dictionary and look up the word irony.

Why avoid the question and drop vague hints about what team you follow? Why not just call it the name of the team and be transparent about it? Hiding behind hints and vague ambiguities makes it seem far more nefarious.

But lets just cut to the chase and get this over with. Do you think the Patriots and Tom Brady cheated? Simple as that. No qualifying statements needed. Just a yes or a no.

I have stated more than once exactly what I think as well as what I think of the leagues reaction and punishment.

You call it arguing. I call it discussion. I have also clearly stated that I, (like you I'm pretty sure) don't know the truth. I have quoted and responded to others, including Pat's fans, agreeing with their take on things. I have made every attempt to be respectful and considerate of others opinions even if I have not agreed with them. I honestly believe I have accomplished that to a large degree.

The simple and honest answer to your question has already been answered. You made the choice to "stay away.. especially from 'my' posts" so I am not going to answer that yet again now. It's all right here in this thread if you really wish to know.

Why does it even matter which team I follow. You are obviously trying to find another reason to just write me off as a jealous hater. Your insistence on knowing a completely irrelevant fact about me is very telling about your motives.

So there you go. I just gave you all the ammo you need to come to your pre-determined conclusion regardless of the truth.

You can now conclude that I am a jealous hater because I won't yet again answer your question which has been answered a couple times already and I didn't give you the name of my team even though I gave you a number of clues that frankly should tell you very easily which team I have followed.

So please go ahead and finish the process of seeing what you want to see, interpreting how you want to interpret and concluding what you want to conclude to justify the rationalization you wish to rationalize.


Now THERE is some irony, eh?

 

[EverettMike]

So is that a yes or no?

 

[Johnnyduke]

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...ially-refusing-to-take-deflategate-seriously/

This guy thinks Brady is somewhat responsible for this mess because he had the audacity to laugh about freakin' air pressure in a football. Honest to God.

 

[The Special K]

A) Don't feel bad for 49ers fans ever. Stabbings and shooting at every god damn game.

as a life long Niner fan...nothing to feel bad about. I am rejoicing the release of Smith. I am old enough that I remember the classy niner teams of the 80's and 90's. I miss that.

I can't stand how disrespectful and thuggish this current generation of football players is.

Guys like Aldon Smith need to be excised from the league for the betterment of the sport. My interest has certainly declined over the last 2-3 years due to this issue.

 

[Scotto74]

I would suggest a few of you take a break from this thread before one is given to you.

 

[Vtwin]

Here's a question for you: If you really want to discuss this subject and you are not trolling, why discuss it here? You should find much more of an unbiased (in your eyes) opinion on the main Football board. So why not post there, instead of what could easily be interpreted as passive aggressive trolling here?

Forgive me.

I am a Bruins fan and I visit here daily to keep up with the Bruins. I very rarely visit the other forums.

Even though I have plenty of experience and should really know better I just can't seem to acknowledge that we humans can't have a discussion which deals with differing opinions and keep it real. Keep it civil. It always boils down eventually to "you better tow the company line or be labeled as a troll". There are many who's agenda is to label then discredit then marginalize anyone who presents them and defends an alternate opinion. I foolishly keep trying, hoping for a different result.

This all comes back around to my clearly stated interest in this whole thing which is the wildly differing interpretations and reactions we each can have to the same information. Believe what you want but I will state anywhere anytime to anyone that I've been nothing but sincere in this thread and have had absolutely no intentions or purposely try to antagonize anyone. I am to old for that BS. There is nothing to gain from it. I do try very hard to be as fair an unbiased as I can in all aspects of my life. I make it a point to attempt to see things from the other side. I am not making any claims that I am always successful, far from it. I only claim that I do make a strong effort.

I didn't wake up and decide to troll Pats fans. I visited one of my favorite forums to read up on one of my favorite teams and came across an interesting to me discussion and entered into it. Nothing more, nothing less. No ulterior motives. No agenda. Just a genuine interest and curiosity.

 

[LSCII]

I have stated more than once exactly what I think as well as what I think of the leagues reaction and punishment.

You call it arguing. I call it discussion. I have also clearly stated that I, (like you I'm pretty sure) don't know the truth. I have quoted and responded to others, including Pat's fans, agreeing with their take on things. I have made every attempt to be respectful and considerate of others opinions even if I have not agreed with them. I honestly believe I have accomplished that to a large degree.

The simple and honest answer to your question has already been answered. You made the choice to "stay away.. especially from 'my' posts" so I am not going to answer that yet again now. It's all right here in this thread if you really wish to know.

Why does it even matter which team I follow. You are obviously trying to find another reason to just write me off as a jealous hater. Your insistence on knowing a completely irrelevant fact about me is very telling about your motives.

So there you go. I just gave you all the ammo you need to come to your pre-determined conclusion regardless of the truth.

You can now conclude that I am a jealous hater because I won't yet again answer your question which has been answered a couple times already and I didn't give you the name of my team even though I gave you a number of clues that frankly should tell you very easily which team I have followed.

So please go ahead and finish the process of seeing what you want to see, interpreting how you want to interpret and concluding what you want to conclude to justify the rationalization you wish to rationalize.


Now THERE is some irony, eh?

Let's try this again, but in a different way:

Does the league test for PEDs?
Do players still take them, even knowing they're going to be tested?
Do some people get caught?
Do some people get away with it?
Does it make sense to characterize those attempts to avoid detection as cheating?
Does this happen across the league and across all teams?

Simple yes or no for each question please.

 

[Vtwin]

Let's try this again, but in a different way:

Does the league test for PEDs?
Do players still take them, even knowing they're going to be tested?
Do some people get caught?
Do some people get away with it?
Does it make sense to characterize those attempts to avoid detection as cheating?
Does this happen across the league and across all teams?

Simple yes or no for each question please.

Would you answer such a baited question, especially when limited to simple yes/no answer to some fairly complex questions?

But anyways. In the spirit of goodwill and cooperation:

I agree more or less with the take of a Pats fan who I quoted to agree with in this thread.

I believe BB and the Pats, like many other teams, try and find and exploit any advantage they can to help achieve their goals. BB is known for his attention to detail. No problem with that.

I believe Brady ended up having to play a game with some balls inflated over where he likes them and he let it be known that this was completely unacceptable. No problem with that.

I believe the ball guys took it upon themselves to do what they felt necessary to keep Brady happy. It starts to get a little blurry here but in the grand scheme no real problem.

I believe the circumstantial evidence is pretty compelling that the balls could very well have been tampered with after the official "inspection". That's goes over the line from gamesmanship for me.

However given the relatively minor impact of the offense I would have very quickly fined the Pats the 25k standard for ball tampering with as little fanfare as possible and moved on as quickly as possible.

I would then make damn sure the officials took the ball inspection seriously going forward and tighten up the process of putting the balls in play after the inspection.

I believe the league bungled the entire thing from beginning until most likely the end.

I do not believe the league did this out of spite or out of any sort of deflection motive. Maybe the Colts and/or the Ravens came from a spite angle to get it started but I don't believe they had enough pull to launch this fiasco without the support of the majority and I don't believe the majority has it in for the Pats enough to put their own integrity on the line. The NFL had to address the allegations and completely screwed the pooch with the way they handled it.

It is possible, like another poster theorized, that the other owners believed what they were initially told and fell in line but there was plenty of opportunity for them to reign this back in once it began to spiral into absurdityville.


So I guess in summary. The answer is technically yes. I believe it is likely that the ball guys, so by extension the Pats did "cheat" in a relatively minor way by tampering with the already inspected balls. I also believe the punishment is way out of line and it should have been as I stated above, 25k and lets move on. I don't believe the "cheating" played much if any role in their success and if it never came out and they keep on doing it.... so what. lets play ball.

I do believe BB is one of those guys who tip toes right up to that line often. He is a brilliant competitor and understands the sum of the little things that are meaningless on their own can add up to a substantial advantage over time. I respect and admire that about him.

I haven't said much here that can't be taken from my posts of the last few days but if this saves you some time then good enough.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Would you answer such a baited question, especially when limited to simple yes/no answer to some fairly complex questions?

But anyways. In the spirit of goodwill and cooperation:

I agree more or less with the take of a Pats fan who I quoted to agree with in this thread.

I believe BB and the Pats, like many other teams, try and find and exploit any advantage they can to help achieve their goals. BB is known for his attention to detail. No problem with that.

I believe Brady ended up having to play a game with some balls inflated over where he likes them and he let it be known that this was completely unacceptable. No problem with that.

I believe the ball guys took it upon themselves to do what they felt necessary to keep Brady happy. It starts to get a little blurry here but in the grand scheme no real problem.

I believe the circumstantial evidence is pretty compelling that the balls could very well have been tampered with after the official "inspection". That's goes over the line from gamesmanship for me.

However given the relatively minor impact of the offense I would have very quickly fined the Pats the 25k standard for ball tampering with as little fanfare as possible and moved on as quickly as possible.

I would then make damn sure the officials took the ball inspection seriously going forward and tighten up the process of putting the balls in play after the inspection.

I believe the league bungled the entire thing from beginning until most likely the end.

I do not believe the league did this out of spite or out of any sort of deflection motive. Maybe the Colts and/or the Ravens came from a spite angle to get it started but I don't believe they had enough pull to launch this fiasco without the support of the majority and I don't believe the majority has it in for the Pats enough to put their own integrity on the line. The NFL had to address the allegations and completely screwed the pooch with the way they handled it.

It is possible, like another poster theorized, that the other owners believed what they were initially told and fell in line but there was plenty of opportunity for them to reign this back in once it began to spiral into absurdityville.


So I guess in summary. The answer is technically yes. I believe it is likely that the ball guys, so by extension the Pats did "cheat" in a relatively minor way by tampering with the already inspected balls. I also believe the punishment is way out of line and it should have been as I stated above, 25k and lets move on. I don't believe the "cheating" played much if any role in their success and if it never came out and they keep on doing it.... so what. lets play ball.

I do believe BB is one of those guys who tip toes right up to that line often. He is a brilliant competitor and understands the sum of the little things that are meaningless on their own can add up to a substantial advantage over time. I respect and admire that about him.

I haven't said much here that can't be taken from my posts of the last few days but if this saves you some time then good enough.

I find your Pats praise really fake, you basically called them cheaters 5 or 6 times in this thread. I don't think you're a Bruin fan either. No Bruin fan would chicken out and be afraid to admit their favourite football team. To think of all the times I walked into hab bars sporting my B's jersey and embraced the hate.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

I miss the arguments we all had with Tuukka Time. He atleast was forth coming of where he stood and wasn't evasive and hide about who he liked.

 

[EverettMike]

I miss the arguments we all had with Tuukka Time. He atleast was forth coming of where he stood and wasn't evasive and hide about who he liked.

May he rest in peace.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

May he rest in peace.