Next Season (COVID-19 Discussion Thread as it relates to the OHL) [Part 3]

[rangersblues]

They're giving Walmart $$$. The only reason to exclude the OHL is for political reasons.

The Federal Government has also handed out hundreds of billions of dollars to businesses.

I think it would be somewhat discriminatory not to support all businesses provided they qualify based on their drop in revenue etc.

As of right now, there are two significant programs. One is the employee wage benefit where the Province is covering up to 75% of wages. The other is the rent subsidy where the Government is covering 50% of rent provided the landlords write off 25%.

I am sure the OHL qualifies for both of these. Then there is a lot of discretionary funding on top of that.

If that's the case the OHL needs to apply under the parameters already in place for businesses.

 

[BadgerBruce]

They're giving Walmart $$$. The only reason to exclude the OHL is for political reasons.

The Federal Government has also handed out hundreds of billions of dollars to businesses.

I think it would be somewhat discriminatory not to support all businesses provided they qualify based on their drop in revenue etc.

As of right now, there are two significant programs. One is the employee wage benefit where the Province is covering up to 75% of wages. The other is the rent subsidy where the Government is covering 50% of rent provided the landlords write off 25%.

I am sure the OHL qualifies for both of these. Then there is a lot of discretionary funding on top of that.

I agree with you — with one caveat.

The OHL is 20 independent businesses, but many of them are pieces within much larger corporate entities. If the province simply writes a cheque to the league, is the league now playing banker? If an owner says his property development corporation needs coin, does he get a cheque from the OHL AND all of the other government programs too? Some teams are owned by groups and individuals where it is nearly impossible to tell where their primary corporate holdings end and their OHL teams start.

 

[Otto]

They're giving Walmart $$$. The only reason to exclude the OHL is for political reasons.

The Federal Government has also handed out hundreds of billions of dollars to businesses.

I think it would be somewhat discriminatory not to support all businesses provided they qualify based on their drop in revenue etc.

As of right now, there are two significant programs. One is the employee wage benefit where the Province is covering up to 75% of wages. The other is the rent subsidy where the Government is covering 50% of rent provided the landlords write off 25%.

I am sure the OHL qualifies for both of these. Then there is a lot of discretionary funding on top of that.

I hadn't heard that the Provincial government is providing funds to Walmart. Have you got a link to that?

The covering of wages and rent subsidies I believe you need to be losing a minimum of 30% of revenue over previous years. I don't believe Walmart would fall into that category. The OHL teams would, and I'm sure they are free to apply for the same funding as the other businesses that qualify. But I'd be shocked if they just tossed $20 million at the OHL. Again outside of the cities that have teams very few people pay attention to it, it would cost them votes.

 

[Otto]

To add, rent subsidies wouldn't apply to teams whose arenas are owned in full or in part by any level of government.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-rent-assistance-small-businesses

 

[Otto]

QMJHL's Sherbrooke Phoenix have eight positive COVID-19 tests - Sportsnet.ca

 

[OMG67]

OPINION: As physicians, mothers and daughters, we have concerns with COVID-19 rules | Toronto Sun

 

[OMG67]

I agree with you — with one caveat.

The OHL is 20 independent businesses, but many of them are pieces within much larger corporate entities. If the province simply writes a cheque to the league, is the league now playing banker? If an owner says his property development corporation needs coin, does he get a cheque from the OHL AND all of the other government programs too? Some teams are owned by groups and individuals where it is nearly impossible to tell where their primary corporate holdings end and their OHL teams start.

It doesn’t matter what “Parent” businesses are or do.

Hypothetically speaking, a Holding company can own the Building in which a team plays. That Holding Company rents the facility to the team. Same Owner for both. The Business that operates the team still pays rent to the Holding Company.

This is a very common practise. Actually, it is pretty much the standard way of doing business for all businesses that hold real estate they use whether it be an office building, a factory or otherwise. This would be similar for all assets. The Operation leases the assets off the holding company.

All “Landlords” have an opportunity to apply for relief. No one has actually received $$$ money yet as the rules are quite difficult to understand and in many cases people are unsure with all the possibilities variations of interpretation. However, those that have applied are operating under the assumption they will receive relief.

Under these rules, the Government will provide a subsidy of 50% of the rent. The Landlord eats 25% of the rent. The tenant pays 25% of the rent. IF the Landlord refuses to participate in the program, there is no safety net available for either party. It defaults to simple Commercial transaction.

This pertains to each OHL team. Each team can request their landlord apply for the subsidy. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t. Either way, it is available as an option. Same goes for the 75% of salaries/wages.

With respect to the salaries and wages, they have to show year over year revenue with a significant reduction; however, although there is a formula, accountants that I have spoken to have stated they don’t understand why there is no graduation of performance built in to the formula. It seems many businesses have taken advantage of the subsidy and are operating at or very close to their typical revenue but still receive the subsidy.

Here’s the caveat for the OHL. They have scholarships and other related expenses. The OHL has stated they compensate the Student Athletes with said scholarships and training etc. Almost like an apprenticeship. So far this has been upheld in the courts.

The question then becomes whether all of that compensation can be applied as wages? Would the Government have to pay 75% of the scholarships etc? This is where the subsidy comes into play where the leagues have an opportunity to lay claim to potential compensation.

I realize much of that is considered an expense; however, the Province has placed restrictions on how the business can operate. This is no different than placing restrictions on other entertainment and hospitality businesses. Many of those business are lobbying for additional support. Just because we don’t hear about it in the media doesn’t mean many of those businesses aren’t receiving support.

A lot of that support is realized in the “essential” business clauses where their businesses are exempt from restrictions. Many businesses have realized significant increases in business because other competitors have not been as fortunate to be covered under the same level of restrictions. If you don’t think large retailers haven’t lobbied the Government for special exemptions and/or inspections etc, you’d be very naive.

Those retailers would cost the Government tens of billions of dollars in CERB and other Employment Insurance had they not remained open. That factored into the list of essential businesses.

All that is to say, the Ontario Hockey League should receive financial support to maintain operations. Until they are able to figure out what they can or cannot do, it is impossible for them to apply for the support. If it is just a matter of keeping the lights on while games are suspended, so be it. However, it could require more support to operate. The Government has enacted legislation that effectively shuts their business down. That alone qualifies them for support. This is one of the main reasons why the OHL may have its hands tied with respect to operating with the restrictions in place. IF the OHL chooses not to operate, it may affect their ability to receive adequate funding.

With respect to 17 different individual businesses, it isn’t viable for the government to have 17 different negotiations. They will deal with the league and the numbers put forth by the league. The league can then dole out the $$$ as required to keep their member teams solvent.

 

[OMG67]

I hadn't heard that the Provincial government is providing funds to Walmart. Have you got a link to that?

The covering of wages and rent subsidies I believe you need to be losing a minimum of 30% of revenue over previous years. I don't believe Walmart would fall into that category. The OHL teams would, and I'm sure they are free to apply for the same funding as the other businesses that qualify. But I'd be shocked if they just tossed $20 million at the OHL. Again outside of the cities that have teams very few people pay attention to it, it would cost them votes.

Walmart is not being directly subsidized. They have agreements with respect to their status as an essential business.

They do qualify for wage subsidies. I believe it has more to do with the additional staff requirements.

Their landlords also qualify to apply for the lease subsidies. Whether they get it or not is another story. No one knows who will or won’t get it. I have a feeling a lot of it will come down to political pressure as well as the available amount of $$$ set aside for that support. I think there will be many businesses shocked to find out they some how do not qualify.

Rest assured, Walmart has and will receive subsidies. Whether they are direct through a monetary exchange or through other behind the scenes tax relief, they will get theirs.

 

[beastintheeast]

The catch with dealing with the OHL is the players that are under contract to American teams. This is where the OHL would really have to look at dealing with the province as almost all of these kids would have the Ontario scholarship deal. I am assuming that the American kids also get a bite of that apple in some way and that Euro kids do not.

 

[beastintheeast]

I personally would be surprised if the Ontario govt ponied up any money for the OHL. They have a whole lot of different priorities and Let's face it OHL teams really do not employ that many people.

As to going through the summer FORGET IT! In Ottawa we learned that when the warm weather comes out unless it is the playoffs and amazing team fans find a lot of other things that are cheaper to do when the warm weather hits. Plus Ottawa will have the REDBLACK chomping at the bit and trying to draw almost the exact same fans.

Also the ice in most arenas is crap.

The OHL needs to do the following

1. no back to back games - at least one day in between for players to rest
2. Cut the schedule
3. Find out what the AHL is doing and basically as I said earlier make deals with them for facilities.
4. start there season in November or December if possible You want to start before the NHL season so you are not marketing against them directly in Ottawa.
5. find out what mistakes the Q made and where they can make the necessary changes so that it does not happen in the O.

OMG I like your leagues but as an old purist would rather see the old gang brought back together

OTTAWA KINGSTON BELLEVILLE CORNWALL

If you are going to only play a select group this is a chance to possibly restart some of the old rivalries.

A weekend road trip Friday Cornwall Sunday Belleville and the following weekend Cornwall and Belleville at home.

 

[Otto]

 

[Otto]

Walmart is not being directly subsidized. They have agreements with respect to their status as an essential business.

They do qualify for wage subsidies. I believe it has more to do with the additional staff requirements.

Their landlords also qualify to apply for the lease subsidies. Whether they get it or not is another story. No one knows who will or won’t get it. I have a feeling a lot of it will come down to political pressure as well as the available amount of $$$ set aside for that support. I think there will be many businesses shocked to find out they some how do not qualify.

Rest assured, Walmart has and will receive subsidies. Whether they are direct through a monetary exchange or through other behind the scenes tax relief, they will get theirs.

Walmart does not receive any rent subsidy
https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-rent-assistance-small-businesses

Impacted small business tenants:

• may include non-profit and charitable organizations
• pay no more than $50,000 in gross rent each month, per location
• are experiencing at least a 70% drop in pre-COVID-19 revenues determined by comparing average gross revenues from April, May and June of 2020 to either:
  • the same months in 2019 (if the small business was operating during April to June 2019)
  • the average gross revenues for January and February 2020 (if the small business was not operating during April to June 2019)
• generate $20 million or less in gross annual revenues, calculated on a consolidated basis (at the ultimate parent level)

I would say 3 out of the 4 criteria would exclude them

I don't believe that they qualify for any wage subsidy either. To my knowledge there is nothing for hiring additional employees. And in all honestly, I would be surprised if they did hire more. Companies like this would try to protect as much profit as they can

https://www.cibc.com/content/dam/pe..._centre/tax-savings/covid-wage-subsidy-en.pdf

For Periods 1 through 4 (which are between March 15 and July 4, 2020), the program ran in its original format and provided a subsidy at a flat rate of 75% to employers who had a revenue drop of at least 30%4 . For Periods 5 through 9 (which are between July 5 and November 21, 2020) the CEWS program has been amended to include employers who have less than a 30% revenue decrease but are still negatively affected by COVID-19. The subsidy that is available varies with the employer’s revenue decline and the maximum subsidy rate was increased to 85% in Periods 5 & 6 for the most significantly-affected employers. The amount of CEWS that is available gradually decreases during periods 5 to 9.

I would be shocked if Walmart saw a 30% decrease in revenues, and I don't think they were negatively impacted.

Edit: They didn't.. Sales up 7.6% and revenue up 2.8% in Fiscal Q1 this year
Walmart Releases Q1 FY21 Earnings - CSGA

 

[Otto]

 

[Otto]

 

[three dog night]

ECHL dividing season in half 13 teams start December 11. Other teams start January 15 . December starts play 72 games January starts play 62 games . Atalanta will sit out.

 

[Otto]

 

[Generalsupdates]

According to the Durham Region covid tracker (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJr...jOWMyLWQ1NDktNDFiNi05YjFmLTlkYTE5OGRjM2YxNiJ9), the Durham Region as a whole is down to 80 active cases with only 2 hospitalized (1 in Pickering and 1 in Ajax). Oshawa specifically is at 16 active cases with 0 hospitalized

Both very encouraging numbers when considering that Durham Region has a population of around 700,000 people and Oshawa has a population of around 200,000. If I had to pick 2 phrases to classify that as, I’d have to go with “non-problematic” and “under control”.... lol

 

[OHLTG]

(to Stage 2 stuff)

 

[windsor7]

(to Stage 2 stuff)

It's might be here faster than u know.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Lots of news out of the Q, just over the border in Quebec, Alaska and Toronto. Cant post a link for this yet but rumours suggest something is up with Moncton Wildcats.

The Q’s return to play plan did not include mandatory testing of players.
QMJHL commissioner keeping brave face despite COVID outbreaks | Montreal Gazette

Problems with minor hockey in Aylmer/Gatineau:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/aylmer-hockey-suspended-covid-19-1.5753005
[URL]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/aylmer-hockey-suspended-covid-19-1.5753005[/URL]

And Alaska:
Cluster of COVID-19 cases tied to Anchorage hockey tournament - Alaska Public Media

And possibly Toronto:

 

[rangersblues]

The Q’s return to play plan did not include mandatory testing of players.

I highly doubt the OHL plan will include regular mandatory testing either. Testing is still tough to get in many parts of Ontario. Private testing was to be made available at a cost of $400/test, which is far out of reach for OHL teams. Contrary to some people's belief, OHL hockey is not an essential service.

 

[billoink]

What players will want to play with those types of restrictions. High end draft picks will head to Europe if given the chance.

 

[Otto]

What players will want to play with those types of restrictions. High end draft picks will head to Europe if given the chance.

I don't think the IIHF transfer agreement allows for that. I think they would have to be undrafted. Otherwise they would need to clear waivers here first.

 

[Mata]

What players will want to play with those types of restrictions. High end draft picks will head to Europe if given the chance.

You are 100% correct...in this dog eat dog world, the players will find a way, with or without the OHL. The OHL only seeks to dig their own grave, so to speak with many other places opening up.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

You are 100% correct...in this dog eat dog world, the players will find a way, with or without the OHL. The OHL only seeks to dig their own grave, so to speak with many other places opening up.

Which is why I think they’ll find a way to play, one way or another. Not playing this season will have a lasting impact on the league for some years to come. How many NHL teams are gonna draft a kid who didn’t play hockey this year over Europeans/Americans that played their typical seasons? What about all the 16 year olds who will be coming into the league at 17 instead, basically at the same level as all the 05s that will be drafted at some point in 2021? On top of it, you’re sure to lose your high-end talent to Europe.

I don’t know when it will start or what the format will be, but I think there will be some form of OHL hockey