Next Big 4 league to expand

[KevFu]

how many of those have existing franchises in existing leagues at the present time, Kev.....

Norfolk blocks any incursion into VA Beach..... Hartford is owned by the Rangers/MSG; San Antonio, not after how SSE sold off the Rampage..... Louisville is a power 5 school and hockey tried and failed miserably there under corrupt ownership, enough that Florida itself bailed on the market;

Atlanta.... again, the Gladiators and good luck convincing the Hawks to split dates at State Farm Arena again, after the Thrashers tenure....

as to the MLS piece: Providence/Hartford are served by the NE Revolution;

and that's just for starters

That wasn't about feasibility, that was simple "which markets are under-served and had the highest "population to support a franchise."

I mean, Rochester made the list but that's not happening ever.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That wasn't about feasibility, that was simple "which markets are under-served and had the highest "population to support a franchise."

I mean, Rochester made the list but that's not happening ever.

took the list, Kev.... and that's just a starter point as to why markets you listed aren't feasible..... Virginia Beach is on the same peninsula as Norfolk and Portsmouth, as an example.... it is why the Admirals had to ditch the regional branding Hampton Roads when they were promoted by Chicago in 2000, hence why Norfolk was adopted for that franchise, same with the Tides AAA club.... their city council decreed it cannot be called by another title....

 

[KevFu]

Vancouver would be a fan-owned team under my proposal. That alone would keep the franchise in the city.

Minnesota won't be on board with Montreal. They want to be in the Central Division. They will fight tooth and nail to make sure that the next two teams are in Seattle and Vancouver.

A. Fan-owned teams aren't allowed. The Packers were grandfathered in, but the leagues have rules against it.

B. I agree that Minnesota would PREFER Seattle/Vancouver to join the Central with MIL/CHI/IND. But they would not vote no to a Seattle/Montreal expansion, because it probably just puts them in a different Central division:

SEA, PORT, UTAH, DEN / LAL, LAC, GWS, SAC / PHX, SA, HOU, DAL / MIN, OKC, NO, MEM
TOR, BOS, MON, CLE / NYK, BRK, PHI, WAS / MIL, CHI, IND, DET / CHAR, ATL, ORL, MIA

Obviously, this assumes that the Moulson family is interested and applies for expansion, so we're just spit balling hypotheticals. In this scenario, I'd imagine Toronto could pick up some support from PHX and CLE

 

[KevFu]

took the list, Kev.... and that's just a starter point as to why markets you listed aren't feasible..... Virginia Beach is on the same peninsula as Norfolk and Portsmouth, as an example.... it is why the Admirals had to ditch the regional branding Hampton Roads when they were promoted by Chicago in 2000, hence why Norfolk was adopted for that franchise, same with the Tides AAA club.... their city council decreed it cannot be called by another title....

I don't understand how your brain works.

 

[HisIceness]

As for Major League Baseball, I think the next 2 teams should be in Charlotte and New Orleans.

No way no how to both. New Orleans recently lost their AAA team to Wichita and N.O. is a Football town first and foremost, anything else is an afterthought.

Charlotte already had a long-drawn out battle just to get the $55 million BB&T Ballpark built. Building an MLB Stadium would be somewhere in the billions, both building the stadium and construction of the infrastructure to support the stadiums needs. Plus, Charlotte is already kind of over-saturated and is a fickle sports town. The Panthers couldn't sell out the home opener last season (they always sell the home opener out no matter what) and the Hornets are a lousy team whose rebranding wore off about 4 years ago. Charlotte is not really a Baseball town, the Knights are fine but they are minor-league ball in a new-ish stadium w/ great views of Uptown. There's a huge difference between paying the $$ for minor-league ball and the fun that goes with that versus paying MLB prices to see a lame-duck team play other lame-duck teams in the heat of summer. How Soccer does is anyones guess but thats another battle MLB would have to contend with.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

No way no how to both. New Orleans recently lost their AAA team to Wichita and N.O. is a Football town first and foremost, anything else is an afterthought.

Charlotte already had a long-drawn out battle just to get the $55 million BB&T Ballpark built. Building an MLB Stadium would be somewhere in the billions, both building the stadium and construction of the infrastructure to support the stadiums needs. Plus, Charlotte is already kind of over-saturated and is a fickle sports town. The Panthers couldn't sell out the home opener last season (they always sell the home opener out no matter what) and the Hornets are a lousy team whose rebranding wore off about 4 years ago. Charlotte is not really a Baseball town, the Knights are fine but they are minor-league ball in a new-ish stadium w/ great views of Uptown. There's a huge difference between paying the $$ for minor-league ball and the fun that goes with that versus paying MLB prices to see a lame-duck team play other lame-duck teams in the heat of summer. How Soccer does is anyones guess but thats another battle MLB would have to contend with.

Under my proposal the Knights would serve as the Charlotte MLB team's AAA affiliate only because the stadium is pretty new.

New Orleans has a college baseball power in Tulane. Because of that it does well at the gate. If New Orleans can support college baseball, then they can certainly support Major League Baseball.

 

[HisIceness]

Under my proposal the Knights would serve as the Charlotte MLB team's AAA affiliate only because the stadium is pretty new.

That can't happen. Charlotte is simply not big enough for both and it's not big enough for MLB and NFL and NBA anyways. Any stadium that isn't in Uptown Charlotte is not going to be feasible. MLB would have to tear down the existing ballpark and the Knights would relocate.

New Orleans has a college baseball power in Tulane. Because of that it does well at the gate. If New Orleans can support college baseball, then they can certainly support Major League Baseball.

Thats like saying Tuscaloosa can support NFL because they support the Crimson Tide Football program. We both know thats not happening.

New Orleans is already iffy as is w/ an NBA team, you really think 82 home games in the dead heat of Louisiana summer in a Football-crazy state and town is something MLB should invest in?

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Thats like saying Tuscaloosa can support NFL because they support the Crimson Tide Football program.

Not even close. Tuscaloosa is a satellite city of Birmingham. New Orleans is a top 50 market that already has the NFL and NBA.

The New Orleans MLB team would use Tulane's stadium temporarily while a new retractable-roof stadium is built on the site of the current stadium.

 

[HisIceness]

Not even close. Tuscaloosa is a satellite city of Birmingham. New Orleans is a top 50 market that already has the NFL and NBA.

New Orleans has about 1.2 million living in the metro area and has an NFL and NBA team, the only other market in North America smaller than N.O. that has two of the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL is Buffalo. I'd say they're pretty much maxed out on major-league sports. They almost had the NBA team set up shop full time in OKC after Katrina.

The New Orleans MLB team would use Tulane's stadium temporarily while a new retractable-roof stadium is built on the site of the current stadium

Who is going to pay for this? Stadiums are not cheap and there's going to be costs to change the infrastructure and there's going to be costs to make sure the stadium is above ground in case of floods since New Orleans is below sea level. You're talking about a project that's going to cost billions of dollars, can New Orleans even afford this? Seems unlikely to me. Is a potential owner going to pay for all this out of his own pocket? We know that's not happening.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Not to mention Tulane plays in a 5,000 seat stadium. MLB might be willing to use a smaller stadium while a new one is being built. I have serious doubts they'd be willing to go that small though.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

That can't happen. Charlotte is simply not big enough for both and it's not big enough for MLB and NFL and NBA anyways. Any stadium that isn't in Uptown Charlotte is not going to be feasible. MLB would have to tear down the existing ballpark and the Knights would relocate.

I should point out that Charlotte is a top 25 TV market.

 

[HisIceness]

I should point out that Charlotte is a top 25 TV market.

Doesn't really matter in this case. Regardless of what others say, this town would be pretty fickle to MLB. It wouldn't be any better or worse than the two Florida markets. The Panthers failed to sellout the home opener last season (they always sell out the home opener) and that's the team this city cares the most about. And now w/ MLS that's just going to create more problems.

I get why people mention Charlotte as an MLB expansion city but I've lived here long enough to know it wouldn't be a smash hit long-term unless the team was the second-coming of the 1996-2003 era Yankees.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Not even close. Tuscaloosa is a satellite city of Birmingham. New Orleans is a top 50 market that already has the NFL and NBA.

The New Orleans MLB team would use Tulane's stadium temporarily while a new retractable-roof stadium is built on the site of the current stadium.

Z:

THERE's no ownership in New Orleans now that Tom Benson basically saved the Pelicans.... it's roughly the same premise as Portland's future in addition to the Blazers.... Paul Allen backed his expansion into Portland, OR, otherwise Oregon outside of the Ducks/Beavers would be like Seattle whereas that market has the Sounders/Seahawks/Mariners/

where the Blazers future lies after Paul Allen is legally still not determined, same for the Saints/Pelicans under Gayle Benson...

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The rule against fan-owned teams is something that needs to change. If there hadn't been one, like for instance the fans could have taken control of the Atlanta Thrashers and prevent them from moving to Winnipeg.

So if fan-owned teams were allowed, there'd be fewer relocations. That's something the major sports leagues need to keep in mind.

Fan ownership might be the only way an MLB team in NOLA survives.

 

[gstommylee]

The rule against fan-owned teams is something that needs to change. If there hadn't been one, like for instance the fans could have taken control of the Atlanta Thrashers and prevent them from moving to Winnipeg.

So if fan-owned teams were allowed, there'd be fewer relocations. That's something the major sports leagues need to keep in mind.

Fan ownership might be the only way an MLB team in NOLA survives.

The sports leagues will never allow public owned teams again. Public owned thrashers would still not have saved the team.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The rule against fan-owned teams is something that needs to change. If there hadn't been one, like for instance the fans could have taken control of the Atlanta Thrashers and prevent them from moving to Winnipeg.

So if fan-owned teams were allowed, there'd be fewer relocations. That's something the major sports leagues need to keep in mind.

Fan ownership might be the only way an MLB team in NOLA survives.

Green Bay wouldn't exist today if it hadn't been grandfathered in as a town-owned franchise, Z.

 

[Tawnos]

That can't happen. Charlotte is simply not big enough for both and it's not big enough for MLB and NFL and NBA anyways. Any stadium that isn't in Uptown Charlotte is not going to be feasible. MLB would have to tear down the existing ballpark and the Knights would relocate.

Not that it's going to happen, but a ballpark could go into the Pipe & Foundry spot, or to the BofA Stadium site if the Panthers build a new stadium in that spot. They wouldn't have to tear down BB&T. They probably would in order to re-purpose the land. No point in two baseball stadiums uptown.

...but it's not going to happen. And, not for nothing, but the city needs to pour resources into completing the gold and silver lines (and maybe revive the red line) before anything else. 100% privately funded? Maybe, but we know that won't happen either.

 

[HisIceness]

.but it's not going to happen. And, not for nothing, but the city needs to pour resources into completing the gold and silver lines (and maybe revive the red line) before anything else

The Sliver line IIRC would end at the airport, that would be a big help.

 

[Tawnos]

The Sliver line IIRC would end at the airport, that would be a big help.

Belmont, actually, so even further. And CPCC in Stallings at the other end.

 

[KevFu]

Not to mention Tulane plays in a 5,000 seat stadium. MLB might be willing to use a smaller stadium while a new one is being built. I have serious doubts they'd be willing to go that small though.

I love New Orleans, and New Orleans loves baseball -- Tulane's stadium is actually proof of that. For a school that small to have a stadium that big, and draw that well... their baseball team is actually "bigger" to their fan base than their men's basketball team.

They played LSU in the NCAA Super Regionals and put it at the minor league stadium. It sold out in seconds (14,000 tickets per game). The next year, for LSU at Tulane regular season game, Tulane thought "we should use Zephyr Field again" but they had trouble finding dates. They called the Superdome and sold 35,000 tickets. To a regular season baseball game.

But that was also the last time the Superdome baseball press box was used for a baseball game, and it's been removed. MLB in New Orleans would need a domed stadium because it's too uncomfortable outside without one. New Orleans already has a dome, so building a second probably isn't happening, and renovating the Dome AGAIN so an MLB could share the place isn't going to happen unless the Benson family was hell bent on getting an MLB team.

There's plans for MLB in Portland and Nashville. Those are far more likely than New Orleans. Like, NOLA's chances are 0.1% at best.

 

[KevFu]

Portland: Portland Diamond Project has a ballpark design done, has the land. Has investors. Financing unknown.
Nashville: Music City Baseball has a ballpark design done, has the land. Has investors. Will privately finance stadium.
Montreal: Montreal Group has a plan for federally owned land, which the government says requires more study.

Portland has some sweet merch:

National OR American, and OR also means Oregon. Get it?

 

[MikeyMike01]

I seen arguments like that about Seattle that it would be over saturated if we had MLS, MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL.

There’s very little to do in Seattle so I think it would be fine.