Newly sharpened skates are an issue

[hyster110]

We always grind the blade down for a fresh start first, and then make sure the line is straight. After that it's just counting passes.

so you grind a good edge flat, everytime? sorry but thats wasting alot of steel. the only time i do that is when people come with badly uneven edges. so if your starting from a flat blade you might not be giving your customers a true 1/2 inch radius

 

[TieClark]

so you grind a good edge flat, everytime? sorry but thats wasting alot of steel. the only time i do that is when people come with badly uneven edges. so if your starting from a flat blade you might not be giving your customers a true 1/2 inch radius

It really doesn't take much steel off and it ensures you have a fresh, clean hollow every time. That's also standard procedure anywhere around here and tbh I think it's foolish to NOT grind it down. You'll never get an even hollow like that as you have to adjust the level for every individual skate and you don't know where the other sharpener had it

 

[TieClark]

Absolutely and totally 100% wrong.

It does not matter at all how many passes you make on a blade, a 1/2" hollow is a 1/2" hollow....period.

More passes just takes off excessive amounts of steel. It's basic math and the depth will always be the same no matter how many passes you make. You are just plain wrong on that statement.

Additionally, goalies are going sharper and sharper just as people are saying. We consistently do 1/2" or less on goal skates, even on kids and beginners. As a matter of fact, we even have some kids asking for inside edge high sharpening for an even more pronounced edge for pushing off in the butterfly.

And these aren't high end junior players, but your average mid Atlantic single and double a travel 10 to 16 year olds.

No it's not 100% and totally wrong. Do 1 pass, and then compare to 10 passes. You're trying to me that's the same thing? No it is not... You're 100% and totally wrong if you think that.

As for the radius', Perhaps it's different in your area.. I know I had a team from the states in for a tournament that said 5/8 was standard where they're from. I had a team from Europe tell me 5/8 is standard for them. Here, in the GTA aka the largest hockey market for minor or adult hockey in the world this is how it's done.

 

[forbs02]

It really doesn't take much steel off and it ensures you have a fresh, clean hollow every time. That's also standard procedure anywhere around here and tbh I think it's foolish to NOT grind it down. You'll never get an even hollow like that as you have to adjust the level for every individual skate and you don't know where the other sharpener had it

Nope, you can check the edges with a level before you start and adjust from there. There is absolutely no need to cross grind the steel before every sharpening. Also, once the hollow is established the number of passes has no bearing on whether the hollow is deeper. If someone wants less bite you don't do fewer passes you re-dress the wheel and give them a shallower hollow.

As for your comment about adjusting the holder for each individual skate...that is exactly what you do. Not every skate will sit the same in the clamp so adjustments will be needed. They won't have to be huge adjustments for every skate if you have the holder properly aligned to the wheel, but you will have to make small ones. Save the cross grinding for edges that are really uneven or skates that look like they were used for rock climbing. Otherwise you are just wasting steel.

 

[TieClark]

Nope, you can check the edges with a level before you start and adjust from there. There is absolutely no need to cross grind the steel before every sharpening. Also, once the hollow is established the number of passes has no bearing on whether the hollow is deeper. If someone wants less bite you don't do fewer passes you re-dress the wheel and give them a shallower hollow.

It's very difficult to check the alignment of an already sharpened skate. That is completely untrue about the sharpness... You do not have to readjust the hollow just because someone doesn't want their skates are sharp. If you don't believe the amount of passes has anything to do with the depth if the hollow I suggest you do a skate with 1 or 2 passes and another with 7 or 8 and try skating and then try and tell me there is no difference. That is absurd.

As for your comment about adjusting the holder for each individual skate...that is exactly what you do. Not every skate will sit the same in the clamp so adjustments will be needed. They won't have to be huge adjustments for every skate if you have the holder properly aligned to the wheel, but you will have to make small ones. Save the cross grinding for edges that are really uneven or skates that look like they were used for rock climbing. Otherwise you are just wasting steel.

I understand that's exactly what you do... That's why I said it. Sometimes there are huge adjustments. Sometimes blades are bent. There are several reasons why there would be huge adjustments.

Cross grinding has a minimal effect on how much blade you're taking off and ensures you will be starting with a clean, fresh canvas. And like I said, cross grinding every sharpen is the standard procedure in the largest hockey market in the world for that exact reason

 

[hyster110]

It's very difficult to check the alignment of an already sharpened skate. That is completely untrue about the sharpness... You do not have to readjust the hollow just because someone doesn't want their skates are sharp. If you don't believe the amount of passes has anything to do with the depth if the hollow I suggest you do a skate with 1 or 2 passes and another with 7 or 8 and try skating and then try and tell me there is no difference. That is absurd.

it is quite easy to check the alignment, it can even be done with a quarter. your description of your sharpening technique tell me that your not giving your customers a true edge. if you start from a flat blade, as you say you do) then the edges your giving your customers a proper sharpening. that is if you follow your only 5 pass or so rule. this is not a true hollow cause you have not established a proper hollow depth if you continue to make passes and its getting deeper with each successive pass, a true hollow should grind the whole blade and not made the radius deeper.

I understand that's exactly what you do... That's why I said it. Sometimes there are huge adjustments. Sometimes blades are bent. There are several reasons why there would be huge adjustments.

Cross grinding has a minimal effect on how much blade you're taking off and ensures you will be starting with a clean, fresh canvas. And like I said, cross grinding every sharpen is the standard procedure in the largest hockey market in the world for that exact reason

cross grinding has lots of effect, it needlessly takes off steel that doesnt need to be removed. when your sharpening at "true" hollows, the amount of steel you remove with each sharpening makes a difference. the life of the blades shortens considerable. and i have witnessed it.

 

[TieClark]

it is quite easy to check the alignment, it can even be done with a quarter. your description of your sharpening technique tell me that your not giving your customers a true edge. if you start from a flat blade, as you say you do) then the edges your giving your customers a proper sharpening.

Yes... You can check the alignment AFTER you've sharpened it... But how does that make sense? I have no idea what you're trying to say in the last sentence. Every store who knows what they're doing starts from a flat blade. Otherwise you're blindly sharpening without knowing if you're hollow is straight or not.

cross grinding has lots of effect, it needlessly takes off steel that doesnt need to be removed. when your sharpening at "true" hollows, the amount of steel you remove with each sharpening makes a difference. the lofe of the blades shortens considerable

Cross grinding take very minimal amounts of blade off. It simple flattens to blade, ie takes away what is left of the pre-existing hollow. If you get your skates sharpened every 5 skates lets say, you're more the likely going to run into problems with the boot far sooner then you will with the blade running out

 

[jsykes]

No it's not 100% and totally wrong. Do 1 pass, and then compare to 10 passes. You're trying to me that's the same thing? No it is not... You're 100% and totally wrong if you think that.

No, you are wrong. Once the hollow is established it does not matter whether you do one more pass or 100 more passes, it will be the same hollow.

You have to establish the hollow first though and there is no telling how many passes that will take as it will depend on how dull the skate was to begin with.

Once you establish the hollow and you have the edges sharp, it doesnt matter how many times more you grind away, it will always be the same depth. The wheel will just keep taking the edges down in conjunction with the hollow, but the radius is the same and it will never be sharper or duller.

Now, if you're not establishing the hollow, then yes, its not going to be as sharp because you have not gotten the edges sharp to begin with.

With a proper sharpening, the edges will always be the same sharpness, because they're supposed to be coming to a point. What makes one hollow "sharper" than another is the depth of that hollow, which varies based on the radius that is being cut. A larger radius will not be as deep, however, the points on the edges are just as sharp because they're coming to a point.

Again, if you dont sharpen the blade enough to have it reach that point on the edges, then yes, they arent as sharp and you're also not doing a proper sharpening. If that is what you mean by one pass not being as sharp as ten, well, then yes, thats obvious. However, not doing as many passes to make a blade more dull is not the proper way to do it. You should always establish sharp edges and the hollow. If its too "sharp" for a player, then they need a shallower hollow you dont leave the edges dull by not sharpening it to a proper hollow.

Cross grinding every skate is totally unnecessary and wastes steel unless the steel is badly damaged. I can look at the way the sparks fly off the skate on the first pass and tell how I need to adjust the skate, up or down, front or back or both. You dont need the blade to be flat to figure it out.

I know some teach to cross grind with each sharpening and to put light marks on the bottom of the blade to figure out the alignment, but its a total waste and you'll find that most do not. If I knew you were doing that to my skates, I would never return because you'd be wasting my steel.

I really hope that you just do not know how to express yourself here and are not as misinformed about sharpening skates as you sound, I suspect that is the case. But you saying that the number of passes on the wheel makes a difference as to how sharp a skate is, is just plain wrong as I've explained.

Its like taking a dull knife, if you only run it on a sharpener once, then yes its more dull than 10 times, but that is not sharpening the knife. Once you get it sharp, it doesnt matter how many more times you run it, you're just grinding away unnecessary amounts of blade. Its the same with skate blades.

 

[forbs02]

jsykes post

A very well written and informative post. Tie, just because every shop does it the way you have described does not make it correct. I believe you were taught incorrectly, which isn't your fault. There are some informative posts here that can help you to become a better skate sharpener if you are willing to be open to advice.

 

[TieClark]

No, you are wrong. Once the hollow is established it does not matter whether you do one more pass or 100 more passes, it will be the same hollow.

You have to establish the hollow first though and there is no telling how many passes that will take as it will depend on how dull the skate was to begin with.

Once you establish the hollow and you have the edges sharp, it doesnt matter how many times more you grind away, it will always be the same depth. The wheel will just keep taking the edges down in conjunction with the hollow, but the radius is the same and it will never be sharper or duller.

Now, if you're not establishing the hollow, then yes, its not going to be as sharp because you have not gotten the edges sharp to begin with.

With a proper sharpening, the edges will always be the same sharpness, because they're supposed to be coming to a point. What makes one hollow "sharper" than another is the depth of that hollow, which varies based on the radius that is being cut. A larger radius will not be as deep, however, the points on the edges are just as sharp because they're coming to a point.

Again, if you dont sharpen the blade enough to have it reach that point on the edges, then yes, they arent as sharp and you're also not doing a proper sharpening. If that is what you mean by one pass not being as sharp as ten, well, then yes, thats obvious. However, not doing as many passes to make a blade more dull is not the proper way to do it. You should always establish sharp edges and the hollow. If its too "sharp" for a player, then they need a shallower hollow you dont leave the edges dull by not sharpening it to a proper hollow.

Cross grinding every skate is totally unnecessary and wastes steel unless the steel is badly damaged. I can look at the way the sparks fly off the skate on the first pass and tell how I need to adjust the skate, up or down, front or back or both. You dont need the blade to be flat to figure it out.

I know some teach to cross grind with each sharpening and to put light marks on the bottom of the blade to figure out the alignment, but its a total waste and you'll find that most do not. If I knew you were doing that to my skates, I would never return because you'd be wasting my steel.

I really hope that you just do not know how to express yourself here and are not as misinformed about sharpening skates as you sound, I suspect that is the case. But you saying that the number of passes on the wheel makes a difference as to how sharp a skate is, is just plain wrong as I've explained.

Its like taking a dull knife, if you only run it on a sharpener once, then yes its more dull than 10 times, but that is not sharpening the knife. Once you get it sharp, it doesnt matter how many more times you run it, you're just grinding away unnecessary amounts of blade. Its the same with skate blades.

I never stated anything differently. You're making it sound as if it is an exact science when a hollow is established... I stated as such that at a certain point you're no longer able to get it any sharper but what exactly else would you think I meant when I said "pass it through once and then 8 times and see the difference?

As for the grinding... It is not a waste of steel at all and I just stated why. You're guaranteeing a fresh start every single sharpen and you're boot is almost certainly going to wear down before your blade does even with cross grinding on every sharpen.

The sparks tell you very clearly on a cross grinding blade. Not nearly as much on a pre existing hollow. It just doesn't make sense to not cross grind when that "waste" as you call it means virtually nothing

A very well written and informative post. Tie, just because every shop does it the way you have described does not make it correct. I believe you were taught incorrectly, which isn't your fault. There are some informative posts here that can help you to become a better skate sharpener if you are willing to be open to advice.

Lol I find it funny that nearly every store in the biggest hockey market in the world somehow has skate sharpening wrong because a couple of people believe they know better.

 

[TieClark]

I should add that I'm, not arguing you can't skip cross grinding... I'm stating that I don't believe you should skip it because the benefits do not outweigh the negatives imo

 

[forbs02]

Lol I find it funny that nearly every store in the biggest hockey market in the world somehow has skate sharpening wrong because a couple of people believe they know better.

Shops teach the cross grind method because it is easy, which doesn't make it correct. They are teaching teenagers how to grind skates because it is an easy way to crank through a large volume of skates in a quick amount of time. Go ahead and have a conversation with anyone who works as a pro or collegiate equipment manager. Not a single one of them cross grinds before they sharpen. If they did they would be blowing through steel constantly.

Your counter-argument: well I don't know what the sharpener before me did.

It doesn't matter. Lay an edge checker on top of the blade and see if the edges are square. Put the skate in the clamp, tap a witness mark at each end, adjust accordingly if an edge is high, and sharpen away.

It is very easy to be a mediocre skate sharpener. It takes effort and an attention to detail to be good.

 

[hyster110]

its easy to know when the hollow is established, when the whole blade is leaving sparks trailing the stone. then you know your grinding the whole blade

 

[TieClark]

Shops teach the cross grind method because it is easy, which doesn't make it correct. They are teaching teenagers how to grind skates because it is an easy way to crank through a large volume of skates in a quick amount of time. Go ahead and have a conversation with anyone who works as a pro or collegiate equipment manager. Not a single one of them cross grinds before they sharpen. If they did they would be blowing through steel constantly.

Your counter-argument: well I don't know what the sharpener before me did.

It doesn't matter. Lay an edge checker on top of the blade and see if the edges are square. Put the skate in the clamp, tap a witness mark at each end, adjust accordingly if an edge is high, and sharpen away.

It is very easy to be a mediocre skate sharpener. It takes effort and an attention to detail to be good.

Right... so sharpeners are supposed to individually check every blade with a leveler for every skate that comes into their store in order to save a minimal amount of steel? Just doesn't make sense.... like I said the benefits do not outweigh the negatives. You're taking far more time in order to save a bit more steel that will more than likely be useless when the boot falls apart before the blade is anywhere near done.

 

[hyster110]

Right... so sharpeners are supposed to individually check every blade with a leveler for every skate that comes into their store in order to save a minimal amount of steel? Just doesn't make sense.... like I said the benefits do not outweigh the negatives. You're taking far more time in order to save a bit more steel that will more than likely be useless when the boot falls apart before the blade is anywhere near done.

a good sharpener will do this anyway to see wear of the blade, previous sharpening, blade levelness and then proceed to sharpen from there.

 

[TieClark]

a good sharpener will do this anyway to see wear of the blade, previous sharpening, blade levelness and then proceed to sharpen from there.

Cross grinding solves all of those problems if they are there. I mean it's great and all to assume each and every pair of skates that comes into a store will receive special attention to detail but the fact is when a hundred sharpens a day come through the door of any given business cross grinding simply makes sense with the only downside being a minimal loss of steel that will likely never be needed.

 

[forbs02]

Right... so sharpeners are supposed to individually check every blade with a leveler for every skate that comes into their store in order to save a minimal amount of steel? Just doesn't make sense.... like I said the benefits do not outweigh the negatives. You're taking far more time in order to save a bit more steel that will more than likely be useless when the boot falls apart before the blade is anywhere near done.

Yes. Skate sharpening isn't a race. A good sharpener will check the edges to see if they are level, look for deep nicks or rolled edges that need to be fixed, and check the condition of the rivets. If the customer asks you to match the hollow that is on the skate but doesn't know what it is, how will you be able to determine that if you cross-grind it right away? A quick tap on the wheel with the existing edge and you can find out what hollow they have. The skates then get sharpened with passes going in one direction, not whipping them back and forth on the wheel. Attention should also be paid while sharpening to maintain the profile that is on the blade. If a boot is falling apart before the steel is replaced there are some major quality control issues coming from the skate factories.

I have been doing this for a long time and I have seen awful sharpenings coming from different shops. I work in MN, so I would say it is a pretty major hockey market. There are good sharpeners who take pride in their work, and others to whom it is just another part of their job to get through before they can go home.

 

[hyster110]

Yes. Skate sharpening isn't a race. A good sharpener will check the edges to see if they are level, look for deep nicks or rolled edges that need to be fixed, and check the condition of the rivets. If the customer asks you to match the hollow that is on the skate but doesn't know what it is, how will you be able to determine that if you cross-grind it right away? A quick tap on the wheel with the existing edge and you can find out what hollow they have. The skates then get sharpened with passes going in one direction, not whipping them back and forth on the wheel. Attention should also be paid while sharpening to maintain the profile that is on the blade. If a boot is falling apart before the steel is replaced there are some major quality control issues coming from the skate factories.

I have been doing this for a long time and I have seen awful sharpenings coming from different shops. I work in MN, so I would say it is a pretty major hockey market. There are good sharpeners who take pride in their work, and others to whom it is just another part of their job to get through before they can go home.

this attitude and practices differentiate the quality shops from the mediocre ones

 

[TieClark]

this attitude and practices differentiate the quality shops from the mediocre ones

What is differentiates is the shops that have steady business and the ones that don't.

Yes. Skate sharpening isn't a race. A good sharpener will check the edges to see if they are level, look for deep nicks or rolled edges that need to be fixed, and check the condition of the rivets. If the customer asks you to match the hollow that is on the skate but doesn't know what it is, how will you be able to determine that if you cross-grind it right away? A quick tap on the wheel with the existing edge and you can find out what hollow they have. The skates then get sharpened with passes going in one direction, not whipping them back and forth on the wheel. Attention should also be paid while sharpening to maintain the profile that is on the blade. If a boot is falling apart before the steel is replaced there are some major quality control issues coming from the skate factories.

It may not be a race but quality and efficiency comes hand in hand. Taking 10 minutes for a single sharpen is a pain for the customer and drives away business. Driving out poor sharpens is also a major pain that drives away business.

You're posting what a business would like to advertise... "we check the quality of your skates, how your rivets are holding up, check the level of the previous sharpen with a leveler etc.". Yet in reality that isn't how successful shops are run... you can do things like making passes in only one direction rather than swiping it back and forth (something I don't do but have seen others do). But when it comes to cross grinding or not cross grinding, the benefits cross grinding provides exceed the negatives. And no, the boot does have to have any kind of quality deficiencies for it to start breaking down before the blade. I just replaced my skates after I don't even know how many years and both my blades and boot were worn with me cross grinding every time I sharpen which is more than most sharpen considering I do it myself for free. The boot takes the brunt of the damage while playing... you just don't notice the damage until it becomes severe whereas with a blade it's noticeable right away

I have been doing this for a long time and I have seen awful sharpenings coming from different shops. I work in MN, so I would say it is a pretty major hockey market. There are good sharpeners who take pride in their work, and others to whom it is just another part of their job to get through before they can go home.

Again this is something you'd like to believe and have all your employees do... this changes pretty drastically when you have 100 sharpens that need to get done in limited time. You can accomplish quality sharpens for all of those in a very efficient time frame simple by cross grinding it.

 

[hyster110]

What is differentiates is the shops that have steady business and the ones that don't.

they may have first time business but i can be almost sure that they dont get a lot of higher end repeat business. people i have dealt with personally and people i have talked to go to skate sharpening business that go with more quality over quantity.

It may not be a race but quality and efficiency comes hand in hand. Taking 10 minutes for a single sharpen is a pain for the customer and drives away business. Driving out poor sharpens is also a major pain that drives away business.

your right, quality and efficiency to go hand in hand, when you do a quality sharpening, you learn techniques to do it faster without the need to cross grind. people respect quality sharpening and respect that it takes more time to do it then to continually cross grind it. these offers a better quality edge and a consistent edge.

You're posting what a business would like to advertise... "we check the quality of your skates, how your rivets are holding up, check the level of the previous sharpen with a leveler etc.". Yet in reality that isn't how successful shops are run... you can do things like making passes in only one direction rather than swiping it back and forth (something I don't do but have seen others do). But when it comes to cross grinding or not cross grinding, the benefits cross grinding provides exceed the negatives. And no, the boot does have to have any kind of quality deficiencies for it to start breaking down before the blade. I just replaced my skates after I don't even know how many years and both my blades and boot were worn with me cross grinding every time I sharpen which is more than most sharpen considering I do it myself for free. The boot takes the brunt of the damage while playing... you just don't notice the damage until it becomes severe whereas with a blade it's noticeable right away



Again this is something you'd like to believe and have all your employees do... this changes pretty drastically when you have 100 sharpens that need to get done in limited time. You can accomplish quality sharpens for all of those in a very efficient time frame simple by cross grinding it.

any good shop would let you know what problems you have with a skate and what are you options about fixing it, thats good business and good practice. its what get customers to keep coming back for your work. maybe if your a place like sportschek or a major retail outlet that hires 16 year olds you can get away with it, but you will see many people who have sharpened for years have their own shops or work in skate only shops. you can fool yourself and say they dont do anything but cross grind and go but your fooling yourself.


again i offer you the chance to ask a manager from a triple A, junior, college (which i have done) or pro. they will all say they cross grinding is a waste unless there is major damage to fix.

 

[TieClark]

they may have first time business but i can be almost sure that they dont get a lot of higher end repeat business. people i have dealt with personally and people i have talked to go to skate sharpening business that go with more quality over quantity.

Obviously people aren't going to go back to a place that hands out bad sharpen... But you're not getting a bad sharpen with cross grinding.

your right, quality and efficiency to go hand in hand, when you do a quality sharpening, you learn techniques to do it faster without the need to cross grind. people respect quality sharpening and respect that it takes more time to do it then to continually cross grind it. these offers a better quality edge and a consistent edge.

People don't have a clue what sharpening entails so no they don't respect it takes more time in order to save them a minimal amount of steel that they won't need. And no not cross grinding does not offer a better edge in any way.

any good shop would let you know what problems you have with a skate and what are you options about fixing it, thats good business and good practice. its what get customers to keep coming back for your work. maybe if your a place like sportschek or a major retail outlet that hires 16 year olds you can get away with it, but you will see many people who have sharpened for years have their own shops or work in skate only shops. you can fool yourself and say they dont do anything but cross grind and go but your fooling yourself.

If you have major problems sure, but you're not going to get an inspection of you're skate when there is 10 skates before and after yours. I've never seen in my life a skate only shop and if they do sharpen like that you can guarantee business is minimal for sharpens

again i offer you the chance to ask a manager from a triple A, junior, college (which i have done) or pro. they will all say they cross grinding is a waste unless there is major damage to fix.

You're talking about different things now. You're talking about a guy that has the time to provide special attention to every skate he does compared to a shop that is pumping out mass sharpens that need to be fast while still providing quality. Cross grinding provides this with a minimal loss of steel that the vast majority won't need

 

[hyster110]

two things


players know alot more about their skates that you give them credit for. the can tell between good and bad sharenings, differences in hollow and whether its been a quick or a detailed sharpening

they can also tell when a blade is being worn down to quick from cross grinding as it affects their play with stoping, agility and with turns


oh and google pro skate service, they deal in 95% skates and 5% other gear

 

[AIREAYE]

I'm not a sharpener so I don't know much about the technical aspects of it, but I've been around enough to know that you shouldn't cross grind before sharpenings unless the steel is in bad condition and that you should always check for levelness with a bat gauge for example.

Sharpening needs to be done with care and pride, like cooking. Would you or anyone else like it better if you flipped burgers at McDonalds, or worked the pass at the French Laundry?

 

[El Tigre Chino]

At my LHS they'll be backed up with skates and wait times can get up to an hour or longer and customers will still drop off their skates and wait or come back later because they know they'll get a quality sharpening.

If anything is wrong with the skate or steel needs to be changed they'll let the customer know and give them options. Obviously they wont do any major repairs during peak times but will let the customer know that they can fix their skate during the weekdays when its not busy. If a sharpener isnt letting the customer know of any issues with their skate then they aren't providing good service and are putting them and others with them on the ice at risk.

 

[jsykes]

But when it comes to cross grinding or not cross grinding, the benefits cross grinding provides exceed the negatives.

You keep talking about the benefits of cross grinding, when in reality there is absolutely ZERO benefit to cross grinding every skate unless there are problems that need to be dealt with. Even with badly damaged edges, you can sharpen them without cross grinding, it just takes longer.

We have maybe, one in 30 or 40 skates that actually need a cross grinding (apart from new skates/steel). Only when they're badly damaged with nicks or rust will we cross grind.

There is no benefit to cross grinding a skate. You can do witness marks without cross grinding (though it is easier to see them when cross ground) and many do not even do witness marks as you can judge by the sparks what adjustment is needed.

Again this is something you'd like to believe and have all your employees do... this changes pretty drastically when you have 100 sharpens that need to get done in limited time. You can accomplish quality sharpens for all of those in a very efficient time frame simple by cross grinding it.

Where are you working that you're doing 100 sharpenings in such a "limited time?"

Look, we're obviously not going to change your mind since you work in the largest hockey area in the world and obviously know better than anyone else, however, you dont even want to think about the idea you could be wrong when you're the only one on here stating what you're stating and there are a bunch of other knowledgeable people here stating otherwise? Even when I "know" I'm right, when I start to face 3 or 4 others saying I'm not, I will start to consider the possibility I might be wrong.