New York Times article on the Coyotes

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Interesting read: The Arizona Coyotes and Their Long Journey to Nowhere

Click to read more...

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

"He said the economist found that Coyotes crowds were so small that they generated only about $12,000 per game in sales-tax revenue at the arena and the Westgate Entertainment District, much less than a crowd for a concert. The city was told if it added 15 to 20 major concert dates per year it would replace the revenue generated by the 41 Coyotes home games in the regular season.
The average revenue per Arizona fan is $5, tied for lowest in the league with the Florida Panthers, according to Forbes. Compare that to the Edmonton Oilers, who have a league-leading $43 in revenue per fan.
Considering the Coyotes’ lease, which has Glendale paying all utilities costs plus operating costs and free rent for the team offices, Phelps said, “what we saw was financially it would actually be better for the City of Glendale not to have the Coyotes as a tenant.”

 

[Jakey53]

"He said the economist found that Coyotes crowds were so small that they generated only about $12,000 per game in sales-tax revenue at the arena and the Westgate Entertainment District, much less than a crowd for a concert. The city was told if it added 15 to 20 major concert dates per year it would replace the revenue generated by the 41 Coyotes home games in the regular season.
The average revenue per Arizona fan is $5, tied for lowest in the league with the Florida Panthers, according to Forbes. Compare that to the Edmonton Oilers, who have a league-leading $43 in revenue per fan.
Considering the Coyotes’ lease, which has Glendale paying all utilities costs plus operating costs and free rent for the team offices, Phelps said, “what we saw was financially it would actually be better for the City of Glendale not to have the Coyotes as a tenant.”

Do you believe everything you read? COG using the media to try and scare the Yotes. Not going to happen.

 

[MIGs Dog]

The city was told if it added 15 to 20 major concert dates per year it would replace the revenue generated by the 41 Coyotes home games i

I don't buy the $12k number, but still, the 41 Coyote games are not preventing Glendale from adding 20 concerts. The GRA calendar is full of white space.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I don't buy the $12k number, but still, the 41 Coyote games are not preventing Glendale from adding 20 concerts. The GRA calendar is full of white space.

Not sure of the number (it’s out there somewhere), but the Coyotes have a lock on the arena for greater than triple (iirc) the number of home games. They sell the ice to youth hockey and donate a given number of tickets to same, showing that number as ticket sales.

Edit: the real question is being competitive with other venues. If they have to offer a reduced rate, what have they really gained?

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Do you believe everything you read? COG using the media to try and scare the Yotes. Not going to happen.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that, Jakey. But you aren't paying attention to this disaster this season, anyway, right?

 

[RemoAZ]

I forgot where I read it but having to wait until the NHL releases the schedule so they know which dates are open limits their ability to book other events as well. Most events need a lot more lead time than that.

 

[RemoAZ]

Do you believe everything you read? COG using the media to try and scare the Yotes. Not going to happen.

I don't know. They sound as fed up with the mess as most of us are. If it's going to happen anyway, what's a couple years going to matter?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Not sure of the number (it’s out there somewhere), but the Coyotes have a lock on the arena for greater than triple (iirc) the number of home games. They sell the ice to youth hockey and donate a given number of tickets to same, showing that number as ticket sales.

Edit: the real question is being competitive with other venues. If they have to offer a reduced rate, what have they really gained?

The number of hours/days the Coyotes have locked up could be modified. If Glendale's position was that they needed some of those non game days available for other events that sounds like something that could easily be negotiated.

 

[rt]

I don't know. They sound as fed up with the mess as most of us are. If it's going to happen anyway, what's a couple years going to matter?

A lot. If they double their rate from the Meruelos and get paid up front. Is saying nasty things to the press just too much work to invest in potentially securing an outcome like that? Of course not. It’s worth a try. As you said, they don’t have much to lose. But they have a lot to gain. Which would perfectly explain their behavior.

Then again, them being completely honest and transparent would ALSO perfectly explain their behavior. So we really don’t know which is the case.

Experience tells me it’s not likely one is the villain and the other is the victim. If I had to bet, I’d take the action on both being “shady” and doing whatever they can to serve themselves best they can as this divorce gets ugly enough to befit the ugly marriage it’s been all along.

 

[AZviaNJ]

A Dave Shoalts article gets its own page?? ​

 

[TheLegend]

LOL. Keep telling yourself that, Jakey. But you aren't paying attention to this disaster this season, anyway, right?

I dunno… there lots of reasons to be skeptical of this article…. beginning with the guy who wrote it.

Even the original IceEdge boys managed to troll him into publishing a full scale article that was fake from the get go and the Toronto Star was forced to retract it. Plus our power play has a better track record than this clown ever had writing stories.

Like @rt put it…. there’s a lot of missing context here and it certainly isn’t in Glendale’s best interest to paint Meruelo as a rosy personality.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

A lot. If they double their rate from the Meruelos and get paid up front. Is saying nasty things to the press just too much work to invest in potentially securing an outcome like that? Of course not. It’s worth a try. As you said, they don’t have much to lose. But they have a lot to gain. Which would perfectly explain their behavior.

Then again, them being completely honest and transparent would ALSO perfectly explain their behavior. So we really don’t know which is the case.

Experience tells me it’s not likely one is the villain and the other is the victim. If I had to bet, I’d take the action on both being “shady” and doing whatever they can to serve themselves best they can as this divorce gets ugly enough to befit the ugly marriage it’s been all along.

This meme perfectly sums up who the biggest jerk is in the relationship.

 

[Grimes]

This meme perfectly sums up who the biggest jerk is in the relationship.

View attachment 492208

Absolutely correct, but I think I want the Cuban billionaire in the Phoenix metro area to keep my favorite sports team here, and his potential impact on the community + capital from Canadian tourism to spread around. In 5 years if the Yotes are still here I could give a damn about the tactics and foul play AM pulled during the process.

 

[cobra427]

NHL and owner are keeping the team in AZ. This is all drama, they will work out a deal with the COG, stay for a few years until a new arena is built.

 

[Jakey53]

LOL. Keep telling yourself that, Jakey. But you aren't paying attention to this disaster this season, anyway, right?

What does the on ice product have to do with the off ice dealings?

 

[Jakey53]

I forgot where I read it but having to wait until the NHL releases the schedule so they know which dates are open limits their ability to book other events as well. Most events need a lot more lead time than that.

Every NHL submits a list of days the arena is available, and the NHL works around that. COG are goofballs if they think losing the Coyotes they are better off. Maybe try to add events to the days the facility is empty instead of saying we need those days the Yotes use the facility. The COG have had twenty years to pack that facility with different events over the years, but they have not done it. They sure in hell have no chance now to do so as the arena is not on par with the Suns arena.

 

[PainForShane]

Every NHL submits a list of days the arena is available, and the NHL works around that. COG are goofballs if they think losing the Coyotes they are better off. Maybe try to add events to the days the facility is empty instead of saying we need those days the Yotes use the facility. The COG have had twenty years to pack that facility with different events over the years, but they have not done it. They sure in hell have no chance now to do so as the arena is not on par with the Suns arena.

Completely disagree on this point. For concerts, GRA is way better -- I've seen Coldplay, Lorde and U2 at GRA, big acts like Bieber are playing there this year (though there aren't that many of them). At Footprint I saw... Trevor Noah? Way more available seats at GRA, the entire upper level of Footprint is just too far away to make any sense for a show. And for a concert, the location doesn't matter as much, am sure fans of big acts like Bieber etc have no problem driving up from Tucson or wherever and making a day of it.

The key is do you believe that GRA can't fill the arena just because the NHL reserves dates ahead of time? Personally I don't (or at least not that extreme of a version of things), otherwise Staples or any other NHL arena would never have shows.

I think GRA's just had enough of being shit on by the NHL (more recently Alex Meruelo), not to mention Glendale's been subsidizing the team for decades. Maybe Westgate needs us and maybe they don't, but at some point enough is enough and it sounds like Glendale has reached that point. Especially because our clown of an ownership group would continue to have to be chased for things like rent.

Also, Bob Parsons (billionaire founder of GoDaddy) owns Westgate, if the Coyotes were that important to the district, he would've made some statement by now or maybe even made some noise about trying to buy the team. Either way I don't think the Yotes are nearly as important to Westgate / Glendale as some of us think we are, and more importantly it looks like the Glendale leadership shares that view

 

[RemoAZ]

Completely disagree on this point. For concerts, GRA is way better -- I've seen Coldplay, Lorde and U2 at GRA, big acts like Bieber are playing there this year (though there aren't that many of them). At Footprint I saw... Trevor Noah? Way more available seats at GRA, the entire upper level of Footprint is just too far away to make any sense for a show. And for a concert, the location doesn't matter as much, am sure fans of big acts like Bieber etc have no problem driving up from Tucson or wherever and making a day of it.

The key is do you believe that GRA can't fill the arena just because the NHL reserves dates ahead of time? Personally I don't (or at least not that extreme of a version of things), otherwise Staples or any other NHL arena would never have shows.

I think GRA's just had enough of being shit on by the NHL (more recently Alex Meruelo), not to mention Glendale's been subsidizing the team for decades. Maybe Westgate needs us and maybe they don't, but at some point enough is enough and it sounds like Glendale has reached that point. Especially because our clown of an ownership group would continue to have to be chased for things like rent.

Also, Bob Parsons (billionaire founder of GoDaddy) owns Westgate, if the Coyotes were that important to the district, he would've made some statement by now or maybe even made some noise about trying to buy the team. Either way I don't think the Yotes are nearly as important to Westgate / Glendale as some of us think we are, and more importantly it looks like the Glendale leadership shares that view

I was really hoping Bob Parsons would buy the team and the arena. That would have ended this shit immediately and we could just focus on building a winner. Probably would have had great cross promotions with Westgate to eat and drink before and after games too. We're not allowed to be that fortunate though.

 

[Sm00chy]

Do you believe everything you read? COG using the media to try and scare the Yotes. Not going to happen.

Exactly lol. $5 per fan is hilarious. A tall boy is like $15. Total BS here

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Exactly lol. $5 per fan is hilarious. A tall boy is like $15. Total BS here

$5 average. I don't drink anymore. So if you have one tallboy and I have none, you're already down to $7.50/person.

 

[Sm00chy]

$5 average. I don't drink anymore. So if you have one tallboy and I have none, you're already down to $7.50/person.

Yes I understand the math… my point is that I usually have 2-3 with my buddies also having a couple. That’s just the beverage side of things. We all also eat food as well. I just don’t see how the math equates out to $5 per fan

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I was really hoping Bob Parsons would buy the team and the arena. That would have ended this shit immediately and we could just focus on building a winner. Probably would have had great cross promotions with Westgate to eat and drink before and after games too. We're not allowed to be that fortunate though.

Bob Parsons is no fool, thus he did not purchase this team and attempt to make a go of that, in this fair weather, bandwagon jumping city.

 

[Kai Yo T]

The Business Of Hockey List (forbes.com)

Revenue Per Fan is determined by “local revenues divided by metro population with populations in two-team markets divided in half.” according to Forbes.

Here's the list of every team and their Revenue Per Fan:

FLA - $5
AZ - $5
CHI - $6
ANA - $6
NYI - $6
WAS - $7
DAL - $8
MIN - $8
PHI - $8
NJ - $9
COL - $9
BOS - $10
SJS - $10
LAK - $11
STL - $11
NYR - $12
CBJ - $13
TML - $14
VAN - $14
DET - $14
TBL - $15
NSH - $17
VGK - $18
PIT - $20
MTL - $20
OTT - $21
CAR - $23
WPG - $27
CAL - $28
BUF - $28
EDM - $43
SEA - N/A

Edit: Sure, the Revenue Per Fan is low, but with more context we're not alone in that regard. The actual attendance numbers are the bigger issue. There's some very successful teams with low RPF.

Shoalts/Glendale also left out the part explaining just how exceptional EDM at $43 is when comparing.

 

[MIGs Dog]

The Business Of Hockey List (forbes.com)

Revenue Per Fan is determined by “local revenues divided by metro population with populations in two-team markets divided in half.” according to Forbes.

Here's the list of every team and their Revenue Per Fan:

FLA - $5
AZ - $5
CHI - $6
ANA - $6
NYI - $6
WAS - $7
DAL - $8
MIN - $8
CHI - $8
NJ - $9
COL - $9
BOS - $10
SJS - $10
LAK - $11
STL - $11
NYR - $12
CBJ - $13
TML - $14
VAN - $14
DET - $14
TBL - $15
NSH - $17
VGK - $18
PIT - $20
MTL - $20
OTT - $21
CAR - $23
WPG - $27
CAL - $28
BUF - $28
EDM - $43
SEA - N/A

Edit: Sure, the Revenue Per Fan is low, but with more context we're not alone in that regard. The actual attendance numbers are the bigger issue. There's some very successful teams with low RPF.

Shoalts/Glendale also left out the part explaining just how exceptional EDM at $43 is when comparing.

I don't see the logic of the formula nor understand how it's relevant. Dividing by population doesn't yield "per fan."