Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Pittsburgh Penguins - January 14 (Warning in OP)

[aufheben]

Whatever are the factors there are numerous examples of an impact of a coaching change on a team.

Saying that coaching change doesn’t have an impact is factually supported incorrect statements.

I think chosen is saying that the Rangers would still likely be a mediocre team, and that people would find faults in the new coach as well.

 

[aufheben]

So has Stepan become Bobby Clarke now that he's gone? Same thing that happened with Brassard on here. We were shit defensively with Stepan and Brassard, even when both were on the team at the same time.

Consider this: Cory Schneider was traded for a 9th overall draft pick, one-for-one. We got more than that for Stepan, plus DeAngelo. Goalies obviously return less value than skaters, but we're talking about one of the best at his position vs. someone who isn't even close to the best.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Speaking of Kessel, I was thinking he reminds me of how Kovy used to be able to beat Lundy clean with his snap shots. Crazy how the guy can get so out of shape and still be one of the fastest most skilled guys in todays NHL. Team USA leaving him off their team was ridiculous.

Given that he always seems to be one of the fastest players on the ice I think the talk about Kessel ever being out of shape is ridiculous.

 

[Chaels Arms]

So has Stepan become Bobby Clarke now that he's gone? Same thing that happened with Brassard on here. We were **** defensively with Stepan and Brassard, even when both were on the team at the same time.

Consider this: Cory Schneider was traded for a 9th overall draft pick, one-for-one. We got more than that for Stepan, plus DeAngelo. Goalies obviously return less value than skaters, but we're talking about one of the best at his position vs. someone who isn't even close to the best.

That trade had to be made. I think the fact that we lost both Stepan and Lindberg in succession is exacerbating the issue. That's two of your top defensive forwards (not just centers) gone with no replacement for either.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Give me Daryl Sutter. It may be disgusting to watch, but at least we'll have defensive structure.

With a good defensive structure in front of him, Lundqvist could legitimately finish his contract as a top end starter in this league.

If he has 3 more years of this I don't see that happening, because he'll lose his mind and go insane of course.

 

[Avery16]

Give me Daryl Sutter. It may be disgusting to watch, but at least we'll have defensive structure.

Sutter would be my second choice

 

[aufheben]

That trade had to be made. I think the fact that we lost both Stepan and Lindberg in succession is exacerbating the issue. That's two of your top defensive forwards (not just centers) gone with no replacement for either.

What issue is being exacerbated, team defense? If we were any better defensively last year, it was definitely not by a lot.

 

[kovazub94]

I think chosen is saying that the Rangers would still likely be a mediocre team, and that people would find faults in the new coach as well.

I edited my original response after you quoted.

To your point: even if they don’t become an immediate contender the reasons to go with a coaching change is the same as making roster trades as part of setting itself for the future.

 

[Chaels Arms]

What issue is being exacerbated, team defense? If we were any better defensively last year, it was definitely not by a lot.

Defensive play by the forward group. I do think the team was better defensively last year. Not good, but better than this. I'm too lazy to actually check the numbers but I don't remember a string of 30 or 40 + shot against games like we've been seeing.

 

[aufheben]

I edited my original response after you quoted.

To your point: even if they don’t become an immediate contender the reasons to go with a coaching change is the same as making roster trades as part of setting itself for the future.

There may be examples I forgot to include, or examples to the contrary; too lazy to look up more right now.

 

[aufheben]

Not sure what difference replacing Nieves with Lindberg would make.

 

[Captain Lindy]

With a good defensive structure in front of him, Lundqvist could legitimately finish his contract as a top end starter in this league.

If he has 3 more years of this I don't see that happening, because he'll lose his mind and go insane of course.

I wish he'd see the light and realize he's never gonna win a Cup here and ask to be traded (even if we have to eat some salary). THEN we can really tank the right way.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Whatever are the factors there are numerous examples of an impact of a coaching change on a team.

Saying that coaching change doesn’t have an impact is factually supported incorrect statements.

Edit: I can understand if a point is that a coaching change will not turn this depleted and imperfect to begin with roster into a SC contender. But adjusting ice time, putting together pairs that make sense, changing defensive scheme and not at the least finding ways to up this team’s intensity level and energy is something where a coach that is a good fit could make a difference. I mean the example is right here : would you think that Pens would win two SC in a row when Sullivan took over?

@chosen was trying to say you are all wrong about everything in regard to why AV should be canned.

Maybe he should be canned , but everyone’s reasoning is reactionary and wrong and becoming par for the course these days.

 

[bl02]

Given that he always seems to be one of the fastest players on the ice I think the talk about Kessel ever being out of shape is ridiculous.

He's like the CC Sabathia of hockey lol.
You look at him (especially when he was at his heaviest) and you think man guy must be 20-25 percent body fat with barely any muscle lol.
You're right tho hard to argue with his skating ability

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Most of the players you mentioned aren’t Tort’s Players. The team identity completely shifted after the Nash trade.

Even Richards was a Tampa Era Torts. Besides the Beaver losing a step, Tortorella employed a drastically different system in RangersTown than he did in that faithful year in Tampa Bay.

Anyway, my response was to AV gettin’ lucky” coaching a Tort’s team, which is so many levels of wrong it’s not necessary to nitpick which “Tort’s kinda guys” were left on the roster.

Even if the wheels are falling off now, it doesn’t help to start making up the past either.

But almost every guy I named either spent their first 1-2 seasons with Torts or they had been under Torts since the moment he came in.

Staal and Girardi laying out, blocking shots with reckless abandon and shutting down top lines weren't perfectly playing Torts system? They weren't Torts guys?

Zucc busting his ass and earning his spot on the team, improving his D and throwing his body despite his size wasn't a Torts guy?

Hags being a conditioning god (Something he was in Michigan too), flying everywhere, fighting for pucks wasn't a Torts guy?

I just feel like this particular argument is predicated on something very arbitrary that doesn't hold up enough to justify raising it as a solid point.

Cally, Dubi and Artie were traded. And if Staal, Girardi, Hags and Zuke weren't Torts guys then Artie damn sure wasn't and Dubs was barely a contributor on the team when he was traded away, frequently getting 4th line minutes so I hesitate to say he was much of a Torts guy either at the time.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Given that he always seems to be one of the fastest players on the ice I think the talk about Kessel ever being out of shape is ridiculous.

A few of the fastest players I ever skated against including some former NHL players would be the first to admit they are out of shape. I think Kessel is amazing but he definitely does not stay in as top condition as many other NHL stars.

 

[Loff]

This season blows ape****. Never have I felt so disinterested.

We'll go nowhere with that moron in charge anyway.

 

[aufheben]

This season blows ape****. Never have I felt so disinterested.

We'll go nowhere with that moron in charge anyway.

Don't get too disinterested, you're still under contact for GDTs.

Although maybe the time has come to uncapitalize our name.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Quenneville has a grinder fetish almost as bad as AV, but at least his system is good.

And he's smart enough to play his best players a lot.

 

[romba]

We had (have) a generational player and we've mostly wasted his career with both patchwork offenses and patchwork defenses.

Generational players are heads and shoulder above their competition. They're top scorers year in and year out like Crosby, numerous Richard wins/scoring bazillion more goals than his closest peer (who also happens to be gerearional) like Ovechkin, Gretzky, Mario etc. Lunqvist, while consistently great to elite year in and year out, has one Vezina, doesn't lead the league each year, and sometimes hasn't even finished top 5. Great HOFer but calling him generational is a stretch I think.

There's a difference between calling him this generation's best goalie (which he may or may not be) and generational.

 

[ponytrekker]

And he's smart enough to play his best players a lot.

Most coaches without the initials AV are.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

But almost every guy I named either spent their first 1-2 seasons with Torts or they had been under Torts since the moment he came in.

Staal and Girardi laying out, blocking shots with reckless abandon and shutting down top lines weren't perfectly playing Torts system? They weren't Torts guys?

Zucc busting his ass and earning his spot on the team, improving his D and throwing his body despite his size wasn't a Torts guy?

Hags being a conditioning god (Something he was in Michigan too), flying everywhere, fighting for pucks wasn't a Torts guy?

I just feel like this particular argument is predicated on something very arbitrary that doesn't hold up enough to justify raising it as a solid point.

Cally, Dubi and Artie were traded. And if Staal, Girardi, Hags and Zuke weren't Torts guys then Artie damn sure wasn't and Dubs was barely a contributor on the team when he was traded away, frequently getting 4th line minutes so I hesitate to say he was much of a Torts guy either at the time.

Tort's as some point was holding back an elite team. His hockey also became painful to watch. He also lost the respect of his players, which is something that has happened before with him. The New Era™ Rangers played there best, most entertaining, and most successful hockey under AV.

My point was it was not just AV "riding the coat tails", and saying such is just white washing doing to current frustration.

The Tort's to AV switch brought that huge gain because the New Era™ Rangers were approaching their apex.

My point is I'm not saying AV shouldn't be moved. I'm saying that the gain that most of the whining fans want [not saying you or anyone specific] will NOT BE witnessed because this is and SHOULD be a transition roster.

I think there are 2 camps on the burn AV front.

1. The fancy stats crowd with the "our expected GF/....".

2. Desperate fans

Get a new coach, but there has to be a plan. Anyone WILL NOT just do, and we don't want to start a coach carousel either.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Most coaches without the initials AV are.

Seems like a simple thing .... a few years back Quenneville was playing Duncan Keith more than half the game in the playoffs. So the cruddiest D-man got like 5 minutes. But WE get Staal & Holden 1 min left with a one-goal lead.

This coach ...

 

[Doctyl]

To anyone glorifying the Torts days, dont forget how it ended. A good reminder of the end is his tenure in Vancouver. That was a god damn abomination.

Good for him that he seems to have found himself or something in Ohio, but the Torts we had absolutely needed to go.

 

[Fitzy]

The 6 goalie system with an outside cycle is almost certainly a better option for this roster, as presently constructed, than the AV transition game. People gave me shit before for saying Tortorella is a good coach, and I think we'd probably have a better record with him here right now.

With Nash no longer a major scoring threat, and Kreider out long term, the team doesn't have enough offensive talent to play an open skating game.

Play better defense and try to earn some penalties moving the puck around. The PP still has the capability to win this team games if given the proper opportunity.