Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Pittsburgh Penguins - January 14 (Warning in OP)

[Avery16]

All in for Quenneville

 

[Mac n Gs]

Boo. If AV is moved, clean house

I agree, but I meant for the rest of this season. They won't fire all 3 at once.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If we had Reeves some people would be moaning all over but Reeves and that other monster looked fine on Pitt last night.

 

[Avery16]

If we had Reeves some people would be moaning all over but Reeves and that other monster looked fine on Pitt last night.

Reaves is fast enough that he doesn’t hold a fourth line back. And he checks like a freight train. And he wins all his fights. He’s no Glass.

 

[Off Sides]

When a team has the forwards the Pens do populating the top lines, them having a Reeves is not like the Rangers having one. Kessel, Crosby, Malkin are all at a point per game or more, when the Rangers have 3 players that can be on that pace consistently they may even get a net positive effect by having their own version of Reeves playing far behind them.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Speaking of Kessel, I was thinking he reminds me of how Kovy used to be able to beat Lundy clean with his snap shots. Crazy how the guy can get so out of shape and still be one of the fastest most skilled guys in todays NHL. Team USA leaving him off their team was ridiculous.

 

[will1066]

Cellino and Barnes are going through their own divorce.

Cellino & Barnes law firm split continues to worsen | Daily Mail Online

This is crazy. Crazier than any AV/Rangers situation.

 

[aufheben]

When a team has the forwards the Pens do populating the top lines, them having a Reeves is not like the Rangers having one. Kessel, Crosby, Malkin are all at a point per game or more, when the Rangers have 3 players that can be on that pace consistently they may even get a net positive effect by having their own version of Reeves playing far behind them.

Even still, Penguins fans do not want him in the lineup.

 

[Inferno]

Changing coaches usually doesn't help a team in hockey. Fans don't seem to grasp this. I am not a fan of AV, or any other hockey coach, because there are almost no differences between them other than coincidental results.

I will guess that the majority of those who scream for AV to be replaced after every game, behaved likewise towards previous Rangers coaches. It's always easier to scapegoat a coach than to deal with the fact that perhaps it might be the personnel that is the problem. Personnel is determined by the people that hire the coach, not the coach, but somehow not everyone gets that.

Can't disagree MORE

 

[NickyFotiu]

Changing coaches usually doesn't help a team in hockey. Fans don't seem to grasp this. I am not a fan of AV, or any other hockey coach, because there are almost no differences between them other than coincidental results.

I will guess that the majority of those who scream for AV to be replaced after every game, behaved likewise towards previous Rangers coaches. It's always easier to scapegoat a coach than to deal with the fact that perhaps it might be the personnel that is the problem. Personnel is determined by the people that hire the coach, not the coach, but somehow not everyone gets that.

I'm not against AV but I am against the passive approach we take to the game. You are right that changing coaches does not always help but sometimes it does. Every situation has to be looked at individually. The bottom line is coaches are hired to be fired because you cant fire 24 players. Even greats like Scott Bowman and Al Arbour were fired. Some of their fans were convinced they could not coach at that time as well

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Maybe if the coach would stop playing Skjei and Shatt together we wouldn’t be seeing this atrocity. But no, keep trotting Kampfer around on the top pair you smug piece of **** coach.

It's become abundantly clear that Skjei-Shattenkirk simply doesn't work. Shatty is a rover and needs a more conservative partner than Brady. Honestly, Skjei needs to be the rover on his pair, that's why he worked well with Smith last year.

Staal-Shattenkirk was a better pair than Skjei-Shattenkirk.

Why won't AV change it up? All of the pairs should be different Tuesday. This is a month+ of the defense being hot garbage. It's not like anything that's been happening is working.

Try this:

McDonagh-Holden
Staal-Shattenkirk
Smith-Skjei

Or swap Holden and Shattenkirk, see if Shatt and McD can find some chemistry, or was the 26 minutes they played together in October enough for AV to decide to never do it agian?

If Staal and Holden are paired, it is imperative that the coach understands that they are the 3rd pair and shelters them accordingly. If Smith-Skjei is used as 2nd pair, Staal-Holden could be a good 3rd pair if deployed correctly (i.e. not used at the end of playoff games or against other teams' top lines.


However, all this thought is for naught because I'm sure AV's new pet Kampfer will be in the lineup again and we'll see this lineup, despite its failings.

McD-Kampfer
Staal-Holden
Skjei-Shatty

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'm not against AV but I am against the passive approach we take to the game. You are right that changing coaches does not always help but sometimes it does. Every situation has to be looked at individually. The bottom line is coaches are hired to be fired because you cant fire 24 players. Even greats like Scott Bowman and Al Arbour were fired. Some of their fans were convinced they could not coach at that time as well

The passive nature of our game drives me nuts, Nicky. We have the players to pressure and really attack other teams, but we just sit on our heels too often and try the same thing over and over. I'm gonna mention Vegas again because that team has a bunch of spare parts, but Gallant has them committed to his structure and style, and look what happens. No reason we can't do that.

 

[Off Sides]

Even still, Penguins fans do not want him in the lineup.

I never wanted Glass playing either, the point I was trying to make is the Pens having Reeves is not really hurting their overall talent level. Rangers playing Glass was hurting them as they were not overly talented to begin with, and anyone more talented than Glass was being shuffled away to keep Glass on the roster.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The passive nature of our game drives me nuts, Nicky. We have the players to pressure and really attack other teams, but we just sit on our heels too often and try the same thing over and over. I'm gonna mention Vegas again because that team has a bunch of spare parts, but Gallant has them committed to his structure and style, and look what happens. No reason we can't do that.

I likened them to a offensive line that is always going backwards pass blocking and never get to go forwards with run blocking. We are always the counter punchers. Its time for us to start attacking instead of reacting. Bend but do not break has put our guys on their heals way too often.

 

[aufheben]

This is obviously a flawed and over-simplistic way to look at it, but there are still examples of positive/negative impacts related to coaching changes. I don't think many expect a different coach turn this team into a contender, but not getting their asses handed to them every night would probably be good.

2016-17: Dallas Stars | 11th in West | -39 (Lindy Ruff)
2017-18: Dallas Stars | 8th in West | +11 (Ken Hitchcock)

2015-16: Florida Panthers | 3rd in East | +36 (Gerard Gellant)
2016-17: Florida Panthers | 13th in East | -27 (Gerard Gellant[22]/Tom Rowe[60])
2017-18: Vegas Golden Knights | 1st in West | +29 (Gerard Gellant)

2015-16: Pittsburgh Penguins | 10th in East | -5 (Mike Johnston)
2015-16: Pittsburgh Penguins | 2nd in East | +42 (Mike Sullivan) Cup
2016-17: Pittsburgh Penguins | 2nd in East | +48 (Mike Sullivan) Cup

2013-14: Nashville Predators | 10th in West | -26 (Barry Trotz)
2014-15: Nashville Predators | 3rd in West | +24 (Peter Laviolette) SCF

2014-15: San Jose Sharks | 12th in West | -4 (Todd McLellan)
2015-16: San Jose Sharks | 6th in West | +31 (Peter DeBoer) SCF

2016-17: Los Angeles Kings| 10th in West | -4 (Daryl Sutter)
2017-18: Los Angeles Kings| 6th in West | +25 (John Stevens)

 

[Doctyl]

Give me Daryl Sutter. It may be disgusting to watch, but at least we'll have defensive structure.

 

[Machinehead]

All in for Quenneville

Quenneville has a grinder fetish almost as bad as AV, but at least his system is good.

 

[Machinehead]

Give me Daryl Sutter. It may be disgusting to watch, but at least we'll have defensive structure.

Plus our forward corps is more talented than the ones he had in LA.

#UnpopularOpinion

 

[Flying Puck]

They miss Stepan and Girardi both badly having said that moving them out was still the right move

Give me your reasons. This team is awful on the defensive side of the puck. Both those guys understood how to play in there own end. This team is allowing 35-50 shots every night. How they got rid of step knowing he would give you 50+ points and be solid in his own end is ridiculous. Giving up on a Dman that played hard every night and lead your team in block shots for 100 years is ridiculous. Those two guys were not the problem on this team. Gordon got nothing for these two guys and it is killing this team right now. This is on Jeff Gordon.

 

[Machinehead]

Give me your reasons. This team is awful on the defensive side of the puck. Both those guys understood how to play in there own end. This team is allowing 35-50 shots every night. How they got rid of step knowing he would give you 50+ points and be solid in his own end is ridiculous. Giving up on a Dman that played hard every night and lead your team in block shots for 100 years is ridiculous. Those two guys were not the problem on this team. Gordon got nothing for these two guys and it is killing this team right now. This is on Jeff Gordon.

You're complaining that they allow 35-50 shots every night and you're saying they miss Girardi who is the biggest shots against bleeder of this generation.

He's been less awful this year, but he still has the worst shots against rate on Tampa.

 

[Doctyl]

Give me your reasons. This team is awful on the defensive side of the puck. Both those guys understood how to play in there own end. This team is allowing 35-50 shots every night. How they got rid of step knowing he would give you 50+ points and be solid in his own end is ridiculous. Giving up on a Dman that played hard every night and lead your team in block shots for 100 years is ridiculous. Those two guys were not the problem on this team. Gordon got nothing for these two guys and it is killing this team right now. This is on Jeff Gordon.

Girardi is bleeding shots against on the best team in the league right now. Only player who gives up more shots against is Stralman. He is the 29th worst in the league at SA/60 Relative to his team. The last thing this team needs is more shots against. Stepan hurts, but his NMC was about to kick in. Gorton chose to replace Stepan with Shattenkirk and got ADA and Lias for the future. The jury is still out on that one.

 

[Machinehead]

Not to mention we were giving up 35-50 shots every night when Step and Girardi were here.

THIS ISN'T ****ING NEW!

 

[Raspewtin]

Give me your reasons. This team is awful on the defensive side of the puck. Both those guys understood how to play in there own end. This team is allowing 35-50 shots every night. How they got rid of step knowing he would give you 50+ points and be solid in his own end is ridiculous. Giving up on a Dman that played hard every night and lead your team in block shots for 100 years is ridiculous. Those two guys were not the problem on this team. Gordon got nothing for these two guys and it is killing this team right now. This is on Jeff Gordon.

hope by "ridiculous" you mean "by far the right move" lol

Not to mention we were giving up 35-50 shots every night when Step and Girardi were here.

THIS ISN'T ****ING NEW!

yeah but we won those games so no one remembers or cares

 

[kovazub94]

Whatever are the factors there are numerous examples of an impact of a coaching change on a team.

Saying that coaching change doesn’t have an impact is factually supported incorrect statements.

Edit: I can understand if a point is that a coaching change will not turn this depleted and imperfect to begin with roster into a SC contender. But adjusting ice time, putting together pairs that make sense, changing defensive scheme and not at the least finding ways to up this team’s intensity level and energy is something where a coach that is a good fit could make a difference. I mean the example is right here : would you think that Pens would win two SC in a row when Sullivan took over?

 

[Ori]

Yeah we had this discussion many times since the last summer window concerning Stepan.