New Redline article at USATODAY

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John E. Ringo

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Stock Rocks said:
Right on, FDW. Beautifully said.

I've had each draft guide since '01, and the product is great. I find the ones who rip RLR the most are the ones who don't have access to it. Jealous? If the shoe fits...

Is it jealousy? I don't think that's it.

I've stayed quiet and on the sidelines on this issue for a while but it really has been bugging me so I'll offer my useless opinion.

I would attribute it to misinformation or a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda amongst some posters here.

I have nothing to gain from these arguments that come up every time that damned phrase "Red Line Report" gets mentioned. I don't work for them, McKeen's or for ISS/HF but I have subscribed at one time or the other to all. I enjoy following up and coming draft prospects and have been doing so since the mid-80s (even had a couple interviews for part-time NHL bird-dog positions way back when). I just do it for the enjoyment, and like to read anything I can about the draft. I happen to be one who likes RLR. It's not candy-coated pablum. It's an NHL team's scouting meeting, but aired in public instead of behind closed doors. It's not all spoon-fed good news, which is what some publications (and the NHL CSB) wants to give you because they're afraid of offending someone by saying they can't skate, have off-ice issues, etc. These things aren't true because Kyle Woodlief prints it in Red Line Report. I would tend to believe the reverse is the case, for if RLR publishes false information then libel laws would come into play.

I don't see folks on here trashing McKeen's or ISS (although someone recently did say ISS sucks b/c they stole their reports from McKeen's). That, to me, raises a serious red flag and why above I mentioned a hidden agenda. It scares me when "RLR sucks" is hauled out every time someone mentions RLR or Woodlief. It sounds as if someone has a serious axe to grind.

Legionnaire said:
Is it just me, or is anyone else tired of the same old arguments that erupt everytime a new RLR comes out?

It does get a bit trite, reading the same tired diatribes a dozen times a month. Ho Hum.

AE12 said:
Redline is very subjective and actually prints alot of untruthes about players.

Please provide some solid examples of this. If indeed RLR is printing lies, why aren't lawyers lined up by the dozens looking to sue the holy hell out of Woodlief? You know your innuendoes are no different than what you are accusing RLR of doing.

Do I like everything I read in RLR? Nope. Do I treat every word as if it is gospel? Nope. Do I like the information I get from RLR? Yep. That's why I subscribe. Like getting a raw gem in the fifth round, I feel there's some decent value in RLR.
 

AJ1982

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John E. Ringo said:
Is it jealousy? I don't think that's it.

I've stayed quiet and on the sidelines on this issue for a while but it really has been bugging me so I'll offer my useless opinion.

I would attribute it to misinformation or a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda amongst some posters here.

I have nothing to gain from these arguments that come up every time that damned phrase "Red Line Report" gets mentioned. I don't work for them, McKeen's or for ISS/HF but I have subscribed at one time or the other to all. I enjoy following up and coming draft prospects and have been doing so since the mid-80s (even had a couple interviews for part-time NHL bird-dog positions way back when). I just do it for the enjoyment, and like to read anything I can about the draft. I happen to be one who likes RLR. It's not candy-coated pablum. It's an NHL team's scouting meeting, but aired in public instead of behind closed doors. It's not all spoon-fed good news, which is what some publications (and the NHL CSB) wants to give you because they're afraid of offending someone by saying they can't skate, have off-ice issues, etc. These things aren't true because Kyle Woodlief prints it in Red Line Report. I would tend to believe the reverse is the case, for if RLR publishes false information then libel laws would come into play.

I don't see folks on here trashing McKeen's or ISS (although someone recently did say ISS sucks b/c they stole their reports from McKeen's). That, to me, raises a serious red flag and why above I mentioned a hidden agenda. It scares me when "RLR sucks" is hauled out every time someone mentions RLR or Woodlief. It sounds as if someone has a serious axe to grind.



It does get a bit trite, reading the same tired diatribes a dozen times a month. Ho Hum.



Please provide some solid examples of this. If indeed RLR is printing lies, why aren't lawyers lined up by the dozens looking to sue the holy hell out of Woodlief? You know your innuendoes are no different than what you are accusing RLR of doing.

Do I like everything I read in RLR? Nope. Do I treat every word as if it is gospel? Nope. Do I like the information I get from RLR? Yep. That's why I subscribe. Like getting a raw gem in the fifth round, I feel there's some decent value in RLR.

Like you are unbiased... you're a subscriber, of course you like what you see if you keep subscribing to it. And no, not everybody here has an axe to grind with the RLR. I personally don't at all but I read their USA Today articles and they do attack player's personally, we've posted quotes from those articles many many times, they do seem to make quick judgements, they seem to be more interested in being "entertaining" than objective. I don't see how you can argue otherwise, that is the way these articles are. Maybe it's different in the full report, but those of us who fine the USA Today articles to be flamboyant and lacking in substance will never find that out because it makes the RLR look like pure rubbish.
 

Tadite

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AE12 said:
The ISS is very good and is something that anyone could afford. I subscribe to it and I am happy with the objective info given on each player.



Your happy with the objective infor given on each player?

Who talks like that? You really should have your marketing people rework your posts because good god anyone in the world would take one look at that and know you work for ISS.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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John E. Ringo said:
I don't see folks on here trashing McKeen's or ISS (although someone recently did say ISS sucks b/c they stole their reports from McKeen's). That, to me, raises a serious red flag and why above I mentioned a hidden agenda. It scares me when "RLR sucks" is hauled out every time someone mentions RLR or Woodlief. It sounds as if someone has a serious axe to grind.

A hidden agenda :lol:

My God, the length people will go to around here to distort things never ceases to amaze me. Why is it that every time someone criticizes or just plain doesn't like something or someone must it always be a hidden agenda or jealousy or whatever freak conspiracies?

Do I truly understand people who enjoy RedLine? Nope. I don't claim to. Whatever float your boat. Do they truly understand me? Doesn't seem like it either. But they'd sure like to put labels that just do not apply. I'll chalk that attitude as being insecurity at its finest.

We can't all find RedLine to our liking, guys. Can you all understand that? I find that the opinion given by you John E., as well as by FDW, to be very interesting and it makes sense: you both seem to view RedLine as an independant scouting staff. They don't try to average things out. It's not a bland compilation and they don't pull the punches. They tell it like they see it.

What the **** do you expect will happen when someone is not bland and doesn't take the middle road? You think no strong reactions will come out of that? Wake up. People/magazines/whatever holding strong opinions will get strong reactions.

That's what I get all the time around here, BTW. I hold black and white opinions often. When people disagree with me, I don't feel the need to tell them they are biased, or have some weak-ass reason like "a secret agenda" or "jealousy". No, the truth is, they just don't like whatever it is I am saying at the time.

By the same token, I try to be consistant with this. I don't think Redline are "jealous" or have a "secret agenda" when they put a weakling, fairly ordinary guy like Chistov ahead of Kovalchuk one month. I just think their opinion is garbage.

As a scouting service that is opinionated, I find that it would be very unlikely that RedLine would be perceived equally well by all. I happen to think very highly of certain scouting staffs in the NHL but not all of them. I think we'd be crazy to think equally well of every scout/services out there.

I am really happy that RedLine is out there and that some people ENJOY it. I do think it's not worth it IMO but that's the freedom of speech giving me the right to say so and people are not under any obligation to take my opinion seriously. It is GOOD that some people are buying this and do NOT regret it and even get their money's worth. I'm sure you've all got friends buying things you simply can't understand. If you're real freinds, you probably express your disagreement from time to time and then move on. I just bought recently a book on Cats' Genetics for approx. $120. It's a little hardbound book of 200 pages, much of it wasted on appendixes and some of it reproducing info I already had available to me. Yeah, some people find I'm out to lunch. They also thought I was out to lunch when I told them how much I paid for my last cat when they can get one cheap at the nearest petshop or even free from a particular.

There's no organized campaign against RedLine. The opinion I hold of RedLine will not prevent you from enjoying it. It will not prevent some people from subscribing to it either. Kyle Woodlief is confident enough in his service that he gives us a little preview, opens up a little window into RedLine's world for us. From the moment he does that, two kinds of people will show up: those who believe everything they see in print and those who will read what he has to say and then react to it. I am in the second camp and my reaction is that this service seems poor to me, just like my cat seems like a bad idea to many in my familily and friends. Some people with react well to it and buy it.

On to the issue regarding McKeen and ISS. The first thing I'd like to say is that unlike Woodlief, they do not put up a preview. I cannot offer an opinion on them much based on that, can I? I mean, everytime Woodlief writes a new column, people post about it here. A thread with "New RedLine column" is created. I actually think that's GREAT that people do that. But at the same time, you gotta understand that people will once again share their various opinions on that.

Now, you can either try to comfort yourself by deluding yourself into thinking I have something against Rick Dudley, Mike Komisarek, RedLine, etc. but that won't make it true. Sorry. I praise lots of things and I express my disagreement with lots of things too. I've been around long enough that I think people should know by now that either I have a secret agenda so huge that I am a master-conspiror, or perhaps, just perhaps, I just have an opinion on things.

When/if McKeen or ISS are available for me to peruse, I'll comment on them like I comment on THN and RedLine. And the world will continue to turn whatever my opinion happens to be.
 

Alex Kovalev

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Brock said:
I've never seen a scouting agency put as much stock in ONE tournament then Redline does.

Year after year, Redline often uses the play of one tournament to justify their rankings.

Redline is fun to read, but in terms of relying on their information and basing opinions on it, I take it as worth a grain of salt.

You plan on doing any mock drafts this year Brock? You had some real good one last year.
 

hawksfan50

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Feb 27, 2002
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I have never seen Alexander Radulov play---but I had posted predictions that he was rated too low by Central Scouting at mid-term on their euro skaters list well before the 5 Nations U-18 where he dazzled Woodlief and his Redline scouts.......Radulov was lighting it up most of the year for TVER in the Upper League at his young age--granted not the RSL --but remember Kovalchuk also lit it up in the Upper League not the RSL in his draft year........Radulov I stated was probably the best pure sniper and offensively skilled package than anyone in this draft------obviously I was correct as the Redline scouts came away dazzled from his great 5 nations U-18 held in a few weeks ago in Finland --my only concern was that Central Scouting had Radulov as just average size at 5'11 --but apparently he's now 6'1 so he'll be ok...the bottom line is that it is NOT just 1 tournament--he's played well for TVER this season...on the other hand ,Lauri Korkiposki did come out of nowhere to have an impact on the scouts at that tournament--he was not on any radar screens that I was aware of before this---can 1 tournament give a false impression? Yes--as far as "skill" + work ethic goes (sometimes skill guys show it other times not) ,but maybe less so for physical dominating players (Korkiposki)--though you never know if their offense was just "hot" for that 1 tournament.......I imagine the scouts will be watching Korkiposki a lot closer now..but my intuition tells me me Radulov is the real McCoy .....
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Alex Kovalev said:
You plan on doing any mock drafts this year Brock? You had some real good one last year.

If I remember well, he was doing the mocks at three different stages last year too. One early, one when the season was advanced and one close to draft day.

Brock's mocks are some of the very few I enjoy.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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I would do a full 1st round mock draft but I don't really have a good enough grasp on the players from 20 - 30. I havn't seen them all play so I can't rank them.
 

Russian Fan

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Vlad The Impaler said:
If I remember well, he was doing the mocks at three different stages last year too. One early, one when the season was advanced and one close to draft day.

Brock's mocks are some of the very few I enjoy.

Hey Vlad, you didn't like my mock draft where I got most of them right 3 days before the draft. Ok I'll sue you then.............oh wait in Canada we can't get millions for things like that. Ok then I'll do my best next time lol :joker: :joker:
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Russian Fan said:
Hey Vlad, you didn't like my mock draft where I got most of them right 3 days before the draft. Ok I'll sue you then.............oh wait in Canada we can't get millions for things like that. Ok then I'll do my best next time lol :joker: :joker:

Don't remember your mock, sorry :blush:
 

Brock

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Alex Kovalev said:
You plan on doing any mock drafts this year Brock? You had some real good one last year.

Vlad the Impaler said:
If I remember well, he was doing the mocks at three different stages last year too. One early, one when the season was advanced and one close to draft day.

I've thought about doing one (my first of this year) soon actually. Vlad is right for the past few years I've done three a year. I had planned on doing a first one a little while ago, but I was pretty busy and just never got around to it.

I love doing em, it's just that right now I'm pretty busy with some University stuff, so we'll see. Maybe I can get my first of the year done sometime in March, maybe after the Trade Deadline, and we see a pocket full of first round picks trading places.
 

st_roland

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Vlad The Impaler said:
A hidden agenda :lol:

My God, the length people will go to around here to distort things never ceases to amaze me. Why is it that every time someone criticizes or just plain doesn't like something or someone must it always be a hidden agenda or jealousy or whatever freak conspiracies?


When/if McKeen or ISS are available for me to peruse, I'll comment on them like I comment on THN and RedLine. And the world will continue to turn whatever my opinion happens to be.


Wow, you're really one of the more well read posters around here. Good read. The cat things definitely a little weird though.
 

Brock

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Brock said:
I've thought about doing one (my first of this year) soon actually. Vlad is right for the past few years I've done three a year. I had planned on doing a first one a little while ago, but I was pretty busy and just never got around to it.

I love doing em, it's just that right now I'm pretty busy with some University stuff, so we'll see. Maybe I can get my first of the year done sometime in March, maybe after the Trade Deadline, and we see a pocket full of first round picks trading places.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=945341#post945341
 

AE12

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John E. Ringo said:
Is it jealousy? I don't think that's it.

I've stayed quiet and on the sidelines on this issue for a while but it really has been bugging me so I'll offer my useless opinion.

I would attribute it to misinformation or a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda amongst some posters here.

I have nothing to gain from these arguments that come up every time that damned phrase "Red Line Report" gets mentioned. I don't work for them, McKeen's or for ISS/HF but I have subscribed at one time or the other to all. I enjoy following up and coming draft prospects and have been doing so since the mid-80s (even had a couple interviews for part-time NHL bird-dog positions way back when). I just do it for the enjoyment, and like to read anything I can about the draft. I happen to be one who likes RLR. It's not candy-coated pablum. It's an NHL team's scouting meeting, but aired in public instead of behind closed doors. It's not all spoon-fed good news, which is what some publications (and the NHL CSB) wants to give you because they're afraid of offending someone by saying they can't skate, have off-ice issues, etc. These things aren't true because Kyle Woodlief prints it in Red Line Report. I would tend to believe the reverse is the case, for if RLR publishes false information then libel laws would come into play.

I don't see folks on here trashing McKeen's or ISS (although someone recently did say ISS sucks b/c they stole their reports from McKeen's). That, to me, raises a serious red flag and why above I mentioned a hidden agenda. It scares me when "RLR sucks" is hauled out every time someone mentions RLR or Woodlief. It sounds as if someone has a serious axe to grind.



It does get a bit trite, reading the same tired diatribes a dozen times a month. Ho Hum.



Please provide some solid examples of this. If indeed RLR is printing lies, why aren't lawyers lined up by the dozens looking to sue the holy hell out of Woodlief? You know your innuendoes are no different than what you are accusing RLR of doing.

Do I like everything I read in RLR? Nope. Do I treat every word as if it is gospel? Nope. Do I like the information I get from RLR? Yep. That's why I subscribe. Like getting a raw gem in the fifth round, I feel there's some decent value in RLR.

No innuendo here. Woodlief knows who he lies about and maybe the lawyers are lining up.
 
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NYIschremp44

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AE12 said:
No innuendo here. Woodlief knows who he lies about and maybe the lawyers are lining up.

from what I have heard Woodlief never played or coached hockey, so what makes him an expert?
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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To clarify FDW's point, there have been posters who work for McKeens who have totally slagged Redline on these boards. Given the majority of poster's don't realize the obvious bias - because they don't realize the poster works for McKeens - and they are both competitors, it is something that needed to be clarified in past.

I subscribe to both and enjoy both, and have no problem when someone says they think Redline is way off on their ranking of a player. But saying Redline is a total joke of a publication because of where they rank certain players is totally naive. It's like watching a movie trailer and telling everyone the movie sucks. That isn't the kind of movie critic any of us have time for.
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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Vlad The Impaler said:
McKenzie doesn't analyze more than 10% of the time. He reports.

He also interprets what he hears and analyzes every time he reports.

The point is that McKenzie's opinion is highly respected in hockey circles, even though he wasn't a coach and never played.
 
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