New Redline article at USATODAY

[speeds]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2004-02-26-woodlief_x.htm


Never heard of Radulov, but that is an impressive move to be sure.

Anyone have a take on him?

Click to read more...

 

[Rabid Ranger]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2004-02-26-woodlief_x.htm


Never heard of Radulov, but that is an impressive move to be sure.

Anyone have a take on him?

I always wince when a scouting service rockets a guy up the charts on the basis of one tournament. Anyway, interesting read. Woodlief appears to be a big fan of more than a few NCAA guys, including Booth, Hunwick, Stafford, amd Thelen. I wonder if Thelen will opt in?

 

[PensFan68]

What about Lauri Korpikoski? Anyone see him play? I like what they have to say about him.

He's got plenty of flash, dash, and dangle to his game, but mixes in plenty of grit and jam as well. In the first game of the tournament he combined with linemate Lauri Tukonen to physically dominate and pulverize the Czechs down low along the walls as they won every battle and snared every loose puck

What's everyones take on what round he'll be taken? I know this is only one opinion just on one game, but does he always play that style of game?

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

The one thing you need to remember when looking at RLR, is that this is really the only source you get of one core group of scouts opinions.

THN and CSB are all on average, basically a blended consensus of numerous scouting groups - which tends to give you a better overall look at ratings (sometimes). With RLR, given it is such a small group of scouts (similar to a NHL team for example), you tend to get a much different look and opinion.

But that's the interesting thing about their reports - NHL team's lists will change just as dramatically during the season, and in the end, some may have Schemp as top 5, and some (like RLR) being unlikely to use a first round pick on him.

 

[USC Trojans]

I heard about Radulov. Top notch skills, but apparently has a bunch of attitude problems and is very inconsistent. I think those would likely drop him to the late stages of the first round or early second.

 

[Brock]

I've never seen a scouting agency put as much stock in ONE tournament then Redline does.

Year after year, Redline often uses the play of one tournament to justify their rankings.

Redline is fun to read, but in terms of relying on their information and basing opinions on it, I take it as worth a grain of salt.

 

[AJ1982]

I've never seen a scouting agency put as much stock in ONE tournament then Redline does.

Year after year, Redline often uses the play of one tournament to justify their rankings.

Redline is fun to read, but in terms of relying on their information and basing opinions on it, I take it as worth a grain of salt.

Usually it's just one or two games they look at to make their judgements, not even a full tournament. They also have biases that you wouldn't really expect of a independent scouting agency. Redline is like the tabloid of scouting agencies and is very subjective, rather than objective.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I like that they make bold and original calls.

I don't like that their bold and original calls are sometimes shortsighted and just plain stupid :p

 

[leafaholix*]

Dave Bolland seems a little too high at #9.

Though it's nice to see him ahead of Schremp.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I've never seen a scouting agency put as much stock in ONE tournament then Redline does.

Year after year, Redline often uses the play of one tournament to justify their rankings.

Redline is fun to read, but in terms of relying on their information and basing opinions on it, I take it as worth a grain of salt.

With some of the European guys you sometimes don't have a choice.

If they don't play in all the tournaments that season and they aren't playing in the Superleague then how many other opportunities do you have to see the guy? And if they weren't part of the national team during the under-17 span you might not have seen anything from the guy before.

Most Europeans are judged on a couple tournaments in their draft years and that is part of the reason why they are somewhat riskier than the North Americans who are much more available to be widely scouted.

I don't think this is a Redline only thing, this is the reality of scouting Europeans Brock. Take Antropov for example. He was seen as a huge wildcard because of limited viewing (I think he may have only played the World Juniors and on a crappy team). Some crazy team took him top 10 anyways...

 

[pittengineer]

I heard about Radulov. Top notch skills, but apparently has a bunch of attitude problems and is very inconsistent. I think those would likely drop him to the late stages of the first round or early second.

Hope he does fall to the 2nd round. Then the pens can pick up Ovechkin and Radulov.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

What about Lauri Korpikoski? Anyone see him play? I like what they have to say about him.

I think he's pretty much an unknown. I asked at the Finland board and I didn't get any replies.

 

[Brock]

With some of the European guys you sometimes don't have a choice.

If they don't play in all the tournaments that season and they aren't playing in the Superleague then how many other opportunities do you have to see the guy? And if they weren't part of the national team during the under-17 span you might not have seen anything from the guy before.

Most Europeans are judged on a couple tournaments in their draft years and that is part of the reason why they are somewhat riskier than the North Americans who are much more available to be widely scouted.

I don't think this is a Redline only thing, this is the reality of scouting Europeans Brock. Take Antropov for example. He was seen as a huge wildcard because of limited viewing (I think he may have only played the World Juniors and on a crappy team). Some crazy team took him top 10 anyways...

Well I do agree with what you are saying.

But Redline doesn't do it with just Europeans, but with North American players as well. Look at what they mention in that article. The USHL All Star Game and the impact certain players made on them. It seems as if they've made up their mind on a few of those guys based on just one All Star game they saw these guys play in.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

First off, I always enjoy RLR, and think their draft guide is quite good (much more insightful versus the CSB rhetoric you get, or the one quote or two from THN)

But I will say this - It seem a tad hypocritical for Redline to condemn Schremp at such a young age for his supposed attitude problems, but meanwhile Radulov is jumped up to number 3 after one good tourney, when his attitude problems seem much worse than Schremp’s.

 

[Jacob]

What are Radulov's problems?

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well I do agree with what you are saying.

But Redline doesn't do it with just Europeans, but with North American players as well. Look at what they mention in that article. The USHL All Star Game and the impact certain players made on them. It seems as if they've made up their mind on a few of those guys based on just one All Star game they saw these guys play in.

Well how many times do you think scouts get to see EACH player in a year?

Given that there are 200+ players ranked for each draft it's highly unlikely that you can see every player more than a handful of times (obviously some you would see more, and some less). I realize that they are regional scouts that concentrate on areas but you have to consider cross overs, the small amount of times the Euro's are on display, how many guys the head scouts get to see, etc. Given such a small number of games the importance, significance and impact of those games will be large. Each time you see a guy you will likely move him up or down in your rankings.

Isn't that really what scouting is? Making up your mind on a guy based on a limited number of games? That's part of the reason it's an art, and part of the reason it's a crapshoot.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

What are Radulov's problems?

He's been accused of having a major bad attitude, and also inconsistent play. Also supposedly fighting with his coach. But every report I've read agrees that when he is on, he has top notch skills and plays a gritty style. Bit of a Jeckyl and Hyde it seems, thus his ranking is probably all over the place with different NHL teams.

 

[Brock]

Well how many times do you think scouts get to see EACH player in a year?

Given that there are 200+ players ranked for each draft it's highly unlikely that you can see every player more than a handful of times (obviously some you would see more, and some less). I realize that they are regional scouts that concentrate on areas but you have to consider cross overs, the small amount of times the Euro's are on display, how many guys the head scouts get to see, etc. Given such a small number of games the importance, significance and impact of those games will be large. Each time you see a guy you will likely move him up or down in your rankings.

Isn't that really what scouting is? Making up your mind on a guy based on a limited number of games? That's part of the reason it's an art, and part of the reason it's a crapshoot.

I see what you are saying, but you have to see what I'm saying here too. You mention that you have to make up your mind on a prospect in a limited number of games. Yes thats true, a handful of games as you said. But sometimes Redline seems to make up their mind based on only ONE game, not a handful.

I have no major beefs with Redline. It's an entertaining read, I just don't put much stock into it because of obvious problems with the way they seem to come to certain opinions.

lol this is essentially a dead end discussion because I know that you enjoy Redline, based on your past arguments with Vlad over Redline :p And well, I enjoy the read Redline gives you and sometimes they give you heads up about certain prospects other's don't, I put much more stock into some of the other draft guides per say. Just a personal opinion, just like scouting.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Dave Bolland seems a little too high at #9.

Though it's nice to see him ahead of Schremp.

Why is it nice? Is it because you share the same bias against Schremp as Woodlief does? Just curious.

 

[leafaholix*]

It's because I feel Schremp's been getting too much attention and Bolland hasn't.

 

[Bluenote13]

Why is it nice? Is it because you share the same bias against Schremp as Woodlief does? Just curious.

I think it's for the same reason I like Bolland - he's the dynamic one in London, not Schremp. Dave mixes it up, for his size that says alot. Fast, deceptive, he's lethal on the PP & PK. I like Schremp, but i'd take Bolland over him at this point. Just an opinion.

 

[Bluenote13]

Glad to see AJ Thelen get a good write up, he's gonna be a good one, top 15 in the draft.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I have to believe that the teams that regularly come up with gems from Europe (Ottawa, Detroit, Colorado, now Dallas) see enough players often enough to come to solid conclusions. Or, their European heads of scouting are grossly underpaid and definitely NHL GM material.

I doubt the likes of Jarmo Kekalainen use the Red Line Report method for judging Euro talent but that's just my opinion.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I doubt the likes of Jarmo Kekalainen use the Red Line Report method for judging Euro talent but that's just my opinion.

Perhaps not, but you would probably be shocked to see where they ranked certain players. Suffice it to say, their rankings wouldn't look much like CSB Europe's ratings, or in line with many of the major scouting publications.

And even amongst the most succesful scouts, they will disagree on certain prospects by a fairly wide margin.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I doubt the likes of Jarmo Kekalainen use the Red Line Report method for judging Euro talent but that's just my opinion.

Doubt all you want but there will still be certain Euro's who are only on display for a tournament or two during the season.

As I said, Antropov is a classic example. Feel free to prove me wrong though.