New NHL proposal coming this week; NHL won't respond to counter unless salary cuts

[Holdurbreathe]

No, all the revenues attached to the NHL are a result of the NHL BRAND. Players come and go, whether people acknowledge it now or not, it is the brand that resonates with consumers and that brand is made just as much possible by the people who are investing in it as those who are the face of it.

Nonsense, Joe Fan doesn't care about the NHL brand, he cares about the players and how they perform.

 

[shveik]

I think both are unfair. I personally could live with something around 52-53% (depending on what other changes were made). My point was, why or how someone could call the owners asking for exactly what the players have as some atrocious demand... if one side thinks it's fair... then it shouldn't matter if the positions were reversed... fair's fair right?

The reversal doesn't matter if, and only if, the fair split is 50/50 . As we agreed, 53/47 is the fair number, not 50/50. therefore 43/57 is 10 percentage points away. 57/43 is 4 percentage points away. That's what I am saying, the league would need to start at 50/50 for the give and take to even start for the number to converge on what we think is fair.

 

[Ari91]

So it was the NHL brand that saved hockey in Pittsburgh in 2005. It must be Gary Bettman's face that sells all those NHL games too.

I hate to suggest this but I think people actually watch the game and get interested because of the players. They are the game.

You lack a great deal of understanding of how the entire machine operates. I don't know why it's hard for you to understand the point I was trying to make - the NHL brand plays a huge role in the development and sustainance of the league. Players come and go but the league survives because it needs to endorse its product which means endorsing its talent. In order for people to get interested in the players, they have know that these players exist.

If you aren't a hockey fan, why would you care if a hockey fan in Chicago is telling you about this really talented hockey player named Crosby who plays for the Pittsburgh Penguins? The easy answer to that is that is most won't care. Even a casual hockey fan won't really care to look at a hockey game to watch a player on another team just because a hardcore hockey fan told them about it. Now if you see this Crosby kid getting billboard spots and magazine covers courtesy of the NHL marketing machine which leads him to spots on Jay Leno and TV commercials, would that not pique your interest a bit more? Generally speaking, it would. That is why marketing is such a important factor of any business because it's not enough to have a good product, you have to make people believe that your product is the one they want/need.

 

[Lacaar]

Simple, because all the revenues attached to NHL hockey come from the product on the ice, which the last time I looked was the players.

Then why not give them 100 percent then going by that kind of logic..

Seriously what is that supposed mean?

Is that some kind of justification on why owners shouldn't make money?

Do you go to a restaurant and demand the servers get all your money because you didn't go there to see the owner?

 

[JAX]

This league is so ****ing cheap and greedy. Players dont make that much money compared to other leagues.

And what do you think NFL teams make compared to the NHL?

 

[Milhouse40]

Players will always lose this battle. They may used "for the fans" as much as they want....they don't negociate for the fans, they're doing it for themselves and nobody else and that's fine.

Why would a millionaire put millions on the table to acquiring a hockey franchise?
Make money.....and it make senses right?

But now the players wanna make sure that the owners don't make too much money.
They want this deal to be fair, they want to make the right amount the money


Owners making too much money...... so their franchise are too much healthy financially and will be able to live on for many many years....is that a bad thing?

And the players are asking for what?
Being able to buy a 1 000 000$ home instead of a $750 000????

How is that good for the game, the league and the fans?

A owners with too much money MIGHT put some of it back to make the experience better for the fans.

But players with too much money won't help anything related to the fans or hockey.

 

[Ari91]

Nonsense, Joe Fan doesn't care about the NHL brand, he cares about the players and how they perform.

Actually, your comment is nonsense. Joe Fan doesn't care about the players, he cares about his TEAM. His team is defined by the crest on the front of the jersey, not the name written on the back of it. As fans, are loyalties usually lie in the franchise we support, not towards any particular player. The franchises are part of the NHL brand, are they not?

 

[19Yzerman19]

So it was the NHL brand that saved hockey in Pittsburgh in 2005. It must be Gary Bettman's face that sells all those NHL games too.

I hate to suggest this but I think people actually watch the game and get interested because of the players. They are the game.

Yes it was Gary Bettman that saved the Penguins from moving by stopping good'ol canadian boy Jim Balsille from moving the team to Hamilton when he first agreed to buy them.

 

[Mike Jones]

Will any of the pro-PA posters here dare to explain why should the players get more than 50-50 of the revenue? I dare you, explain me why.

I was pro PA back when the first offers and counter offers were being dealt with but agree that a 50-50 split is the ideal settlement to this whole cluster **** negotiation.

I'm really surprised that both sides are making this worse than it should be. I understand the need for posturing and going through rounds of offers and counter offers. I also understand the need to save face, look good in public, and go for the win. But c'mon - who's giving these idiots advice?

Today I'm in the camp that says a pox on both their houses. Both sides should grow up, get off their a***s and work through the weekend to get a deal done. Enough already.

 

[mindfly]

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MEET AT 50/50, fair and square! I just don't understand this ****

 

[Realm]

It was the league and not the players that decided to expand to these new areas. Problem teams should be contracted.

Players dont want contraction, they would want those teams moved. NHLPA doesnt want to lose members.

 

[JAX]

I support the players 100% but turning to Twitter to air their grievances is NOT smart business. I am disappointed in Donald Fehr for evidently not sufficiently preparing his constituents for an ownership disruption.

What bugs me is their first proposal, if they were serious they would have had a counter offer working for better numbers for the players and throwing a few of their own ideas for the owners to chew on and consent to.

Instead they throw out a whole new plan which they basically ignored what the NHL had proposed....that tells me the players are going to war and had no intention of ending this soon.

 

[Ari91]

The players are really starting to get on my nerves with their twitter campaign on bettman. Far too petty.

Not a fan of that as well. I find that their antics are a desperate plea to paint themselves as the victims in the situation. You're effing millionaires already and no matter what the league is willing to offer them, they'll still be millionaires.

The players keep saying they want a fair deal. Well isn't fair an equal split of revenue? Why not do 50/50 and renegotiate what defines HRR?

 

[Paranoid Android]

A owners with too much money MIGHT put some of it back to make the experience better for the fans.

But players with too much money won't help anything related to the fans or hockey.

Interesting point. Never thought of it that way.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Maybe it does!

If it's flawed, it's flawed. Doesn't matter whose fault it may or may not be, it's still flawed.

Now it appears that the PA is stalThis got ugly when the PA refused to start looking at the CBA back in Jan/Feb. ling. Both sides have KNOWN there were issues for a long time and the PA waited and waited.... (sound familiar?)

Long negotiations are not generally successful, most labour agreements go to the wire, when real money is being lost.

It doesn't matter how long the parties are aware of the issues, what matters is reaching an agreement on how to solve them.

The NHL and NHLPA both have vastly different opinions on how to solve the issues facing the NHL.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

The full Bettman and Fehr PCs are on TSN.ca. Haven't watched the Fehr one yet, Bettman was in clear pissed off mode. Took lots of shots at ''this union'' and what not.

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST MEET AT 50/50, fair and square! I just don't understand this ****

Because the PA doesn't see any reason to take such a cut. For now.

 

[dwkdnvr]

I think both are unfair. I personally could live with something around 52-53% (depending on what other changes were made). My point was, why or how someone could call the owners asking for exactly what the players have as some atrocious demand... if one side thinks it's fair... then it shouldn't matter if the positions were reversed... fair's fair right?



Again, please show me where the NHL has said this. Last I heard, they increased RS from ~150m to 190m, but refused to really discuss it until the % was sorted out. I'm not saying changes couldn't be made. But the league refusing to spend time on it until the % is sorted out and they know exactly how much $ they have to play with isn't the same as saying they do not want a true RS system.

Well, isn't the current "revenue sharing" setup basically a complete scam? If anyone has concrete numbers on actual payments I'd be interested, but from what I understand the requirement is that only teams who show revenue growth equal or better than the league as a whole are eligible to receive transfer funds. This would seem to me to indicate that the net payments were probably basically zero.

IMHO this is why I still (for the moment) support the players position in general - the league has a revenue distribution problem, not a revenue problem. There is absolutely nothing in the league proposal that helps the distribution, and I think the players are right to try to force that issue. Both the players and the top 10-12 teams have done extremely well under the current agreement, so I think the point that the players shouldn't be the only ones making concessions is a good one.
I believe the players have to know that they'll have to come down to the 50% range before things are done, but I don't think it's a unfair to try to force some real and effective revenue sharing into the picture.

In the long run, I really think that a different cap/floor computation is going to be needed in addition to any other changes. By using a fixed gap around the midpoint, player costs for the teams at the floor actually increased substantially more in percentage terms than for teams near the cap - I think the proposed 2012 floor was 2.3 times the original 23M floor - nobody can absorb that in smaller markets. At a minimum, they need to express the cap and floor as fractions of the midpoint, so that a 5% rise in the midpoint is mirrored by a 5% rise in the cap and floor. It won't fix things by itself, but it'll help some.

 

[mindfly]

Because the PA doesn't see any reason to take such a cut. For now.

They need to open their eyes then jesus christ, didn't the mega greedy nba stars agree on a 50/50 split...

50/50 makes the most sense ALL THE TIME...

**** the players.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Yes it was Gary Bettman that saved the Penguins from moving by stopping good'ol canadian boy Jim Balsille from moving the team to Hamilton when he first agreed to buy them.

That's funny!!!

What saved the Pens was not Gary Bettman, it was Lemieux posturing and fighting for a new arena in Pittsburgh which he got.

Bettman said no to Balsille wanting to move the team to Canada, not to moving the team.

As I recall, while Bettman was scolding Balsille, Lemieux was checking out the Kansas City opportunity.

 

[Pepper]

Nonsense, Joe Fan doesn't care about the NHL brand, he cares about the players and how they perform.

100% BS. What fans care about are TEAMS, not players.

Personally I'm hoping that the league sticks to it's guns and lock-outs players as long as necessary.

It's time to crack the NHLPA who feel entitled to 57% of revenues when they have nothing to lose.

Enjoy the european leagues at 10% of what you could make.

 

[USApegger]

Nonsense, Joe Fan doesn't care about the NHL brand, he cares about the players and how they perform.

Being from Winnipeg, I completely disagree, we wanted the NHL brand, not the AHL brand

 

[Ari91]

I just watched Bettman's presser and something that stood out to me is that he did say that the league has addressed their willingness to increase revenue sharing. If the league is prepared to do that and the players aren't willing to take a 'fairer' share, then I'm putting this lockout on the players.

I say keep the cap at what it was last season and move forward with a 50/50 split or a 49/51 split.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

And what do you think NFL teams make compared to the NHL?

About the same

 

[JAX]

The full Bettman and Fehr PCs are on TSN.ca. Haven't watched the Fehr one yet, Bettman was in clear pissed off mode. Took lots of shots at ''this union'' and what not

/


Kind of surprised even when the 2004 negotiations were going on he was always as politically correct as he could be. But this time I think he already sees the writting on the wall and doesn't think the PA is serious.....yet

 

[Buttonwood]

Nonsense, Joe Fan doesn't care about the NHL brand, he cares about the players and how they perform.

I hear the ECHL is always looking for NHL talent.

NHL players should just all sign in the ECHL for millions, owners will willingly give them that because NBC will pick up the TV rights, fans will buy plenty of Alaska Aces and Victoria River Kings merchandise, and fans will flock to the rinks where possible. Joe Fan will be ok with this right?