New Limit of Foreigners [starting from season 2014/2015]

[FreshFruit]

The fact that their going to bring the salary cap down, kind of indicates they've stopped those delusions of grandeur and instead focus on creating a healthier league for all teams in the league (for economic reasons). Oligarchs and whatnot can't just keep on burning away money with the current economic situations (which getting worse and worse) by trying to lure some fringe NHL players by overpaying them.

For a guy who's against the World Cup and is advocating NHL players in the Olympics you sure have confussing posts.

If one company( NHL in this case) has a monopoly on a market with its product( the best players) will it try to lose that monopoly by letting its product to the others(playing in the Olympics) or will it try to bolster its share even more by gaining more influence and money( World Cup)?

I see no reason for the NHL in the future, if they gain such monopoly, to play such tournaments as the Olympics where the league has no share of influence(Let's be clear, Olympic Hockey final game is the best watched hockey game in four years, but that's it) or more importantly, money.

NHL has showed no desire to grow the foreign markets. They are focused on NA where WC will generate more money for them than Olympics could ever have.

Now, I don't know about you, but I was taught that If there are two competing companies on the same market with their respective product of the same quality the winning party is the consumer, fans. 'Cause companies will have to make sacrifices and choices that are not best for them but are pleasing for the consumer to sustain their market share.

And who knows, hockey might just become more popular that way.

 

[Jussi]

For a guy who's against the World Cup and is advocating NHL players in the Olympics you sure have confussing posts.

If one company( NHL in this case) has a monopoly on a market with its product( the best players) will it try to lose that monopoly by letting its product to the others(playing in the Olympics) or will it try to bolster its share even more by gaining more influence and money( World Cup)?

I see no reason for the NHL in the future, if they gain such monopoly, to play such tournaments as the Olympics where the league has no share of influence(Let's be clear, Olympic Hockey final game is the best watched hockey game in four years, but that's it) or more importantly, money.

NHL has showed no desire to grow the foreign markets. They are focused on NA where WC will generate more money for them than Olympics could ever have.

Now, I don't know about you, but I was taught that If there are two competing companies on the same market with their respective product of the same quality the winning party is the consumer, fans. 'Cause companies will have to make sacrifices and choices that are not best for them but are pleasing for the consumer to sustain their market share.

And who knows, hockey might just become more popular that way.

When those two companies operate in ways that only benefit those two leagues, fans outside those leagues end up the losers. The differences when it comes to competing for players: NHL pays the same sum for every players (which in some cases might be lower than actual value), has clear deadlines for transfers and rules that guarantee that money is paid. KHL pays more for players without KHL clauses but most players have clauses which guarantee either cheap or free (mostly off-season) exist and thus benefit clubs even less than the NHL ones. If the NHL wants to arrange a World Cup it cannot do so without the consent of European federations and leagues so those entities are there to counter them

 

[FreshFruit]

When those two companies operate in ways that only benefit those two leagues, fans outside those leagues end up the losers. The differences when it comes to competing for players: NHL pays the same sum for every players (which in some cases might be lower than actual value), has clear deadlines for transfers and rules that guarantee that money is paid. KHL pays more for players without KHL clauses but most players have clauses which guarantee either cheap or free (mostly off-season) exist and thus benefit clubs even less than the NHL ones. If the NHL wants to arrange a World Cup it cannot do so without the consent of European federations and leagues so those entities are there to counter them

You are trying to find a remedy for a symptom while neglecting the actual problem.

It's not the problem in a sum of money paid for the players, it's the problem that that sum is used as a balance for NHL's domination over European market and maintaining the status quo over its monopoly as Hockey's leader.

Small leagues, with its right, are taking whatever they can get 'cause they know that they can't mantain the race with influence and money with the top gun and are aware that sooner or later are going to be blackmailed by its own players who see NHL as the only grail of hockey and are building theirs future according to that dream.

Noone is neglecting's NHL supermacy in training, facilities and overall quality of the players, but the problem when it comes to us is its influence. As long as the NHL gains the best players and attains its image as undisputed number 1 of hockey they will gain more and more influence which, someday, will be strong enough to counter the Olympics itself.

European leagues won't counter them because theirs power is depleted and incoherent and it consist of the players that are heavily influenced by NHL and its sparkly arenas.

Bettman is no fool. He knows that every youngster from Finland to Czech wannts to play in NHL. And when time is right he will give them a choice, either you'll give your loyalty to a club that pays you 6 million $ a year or you can go play on some tournament that's been held every 4 years and plus you get some shinny medal around your neck, if you're lucky.

 

[kp61c]

sovsport.ru: the limit will be decreased to 3.

i dont really understand whats going on, i thought it will increase to 7.

im confused

that's good, sadly it's only a rumour, it's like a game where one side proposes to increase the limit and the other to decrease only to not change anything

 

[GX]

that's good, sadly it's only a rumour, it's like a game where one side proposes to increase the limit and the other to decrease only to not change anything

It's up to you - whether you prefer a top level ice hockey league that brings show, competition and gains attention or you want yet another mere national developmental league.

If Russians tend to think it should be more of a development league, I don't really understand why KHL was created in the first place? (with regards to aspect of sports, not politics)

 

[bobbeaver]

You are trying to find a remedy for a symptom while neglecting the actual problem.

It's not the problem in a sum of money paid for the players, it's the problem that that sum is used as a balance for NHL's domination over European market and maintaining the status quo over its monopoly as Hockey's leader.

Small leagues, with its right, are taking whatever they can get 'cause they know that they can't mantain the race with influence and money with the top gun and are aware that sooner or later are going to be blackmailed by its own players who see NHL as the only grail of hockey and are building theirs future according to that dream.

Noone is neglecting's NHL supermacy in training, facilities and overall quality of the players, but the problem when it comes to us is its influence. As long as the NHL gains the best players and attains its image as undisputed number 1 of hockey they will gain more and more influence which, someday, will be strong enough to counter the Olympics itself.

European leagues won't counter them because theirs power is depleted and incoherent and it consist of the players that are heavily influenced by NHL and its sparkly arenas.

Bettman is no fool. He knows that every youngster from Finland to Czech wannts to play in NHL. And when time is right he will give them a choice, either you'll give your loyalty to a club that pays you 6 million $ a year or you can go play on some tournament that's been held every 4 years and plus you get some shinny medal around your neck, if you're lucky.

I think exactly the same, NHL is acting like a capitalists from 1910, doing what they want way they want it and destroying the expansion of the game or even helping killing some hockey developed countries with its practices. There is no "modern" fare trade global marketing involved in this nore do they want one. Atleast before they used to take them as senior players. Now they take them while they are kids for free. Even NBA pays the EU clubs damages if they want a player.

 

[kp61c]

It's up to you - whether you prefer a top level ice hockey league that brings show, competition and gains attention or you want yet another mere national developmental league.

If Russians tend to think it should be more of a development league, I don't really understand why KHL was created in the first place? (with regards to aspect of sports, not politics)

i don't either, in the current Russia it's a luxury we can not afford. it's only mine opinion you don't need to pick it and project on some other russian entities and masses

 

[kp61c]

that's why i'm against clubs like riga and jokerit which are in the khl only because of russian money, thanks but no thanks

 

[Exarz]

According to Swedish Sportbladet, rsport.ru says that there will be the same limit (5) next season, and will gradually get lower for each season.

Players with two way contracts will only get 60% of their salary if they play in the farm team.

Source: http://rsport.ru/hockey/20140419/743318221.html

Sportbladet: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article18746561.ab

Can someone confirm this?

 

[Urbanskog]

According to Swedish Sportbladet, rsport.ru says that there will be the same limit (5) next season, and will gradually get lower for each season.

Players with two way contracts will only get 60% of their salary if they play in the farm team.

Source: http://rsport.ru/hockey/20140419/743318221.html

Sportbladet: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article18746561.ab

Can someone confirm this?

The foreigner limit will unfortunately stay the same but the limit getting lower in the future? Nope.

 

[Jussi]

According to Swedish Sportbladet, rsport.ru says that there will be the same limit (5) next season, and will gradually get lower for each season.

Players with two way contracts will only get 60% of their salary if they play in the farm team.

Source: http://rsport.ru/hockey/20140419/743318221.html

Sportbladet: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article18746561.ab

Can someone confirm this?

Sportsminister Mutko denied Spartak's request and according to posters assessment, the administrations stance on supporting hockey has changed. Reasons for it being:

- failure to win gold at Sochi (Putin wanted gold and only gold)
- KHL ignored the RHF's request/demand of 3 foreign player limit and instead raised to 7. Mutko took the matter to Putin and their going to stick with 5. This affair damaged the relationship between the KHL and the government and Mutko is relatively pissed off now while also fairly powerful.
- Biggest reason is probably the state of the Russian economy. Ukraine crisis is eating up resources and if Crimea stays with Russia, that place is going eat up a lot money.

 

[kp61c]

Sportsminister Mutko denied Spartak's request and according to posters assessment, the administrations stance on supporting hockey has changed. Reasons for it being:

- failure to win gold at Sochi (Putin wanted gold and only gold)
- KHL ignored the RHF's request/demand of 3 foreign player limit and instead raised to 7. Mutko took the matter to Putin and their going to stick with 5. This affair damaged the relationship between the KHL and the government and Mutko is relatively pissed off now while also fairly powerful.
- Biggest reason is probably the state of the Russian economy. Ukraine crisis is eating up resources and if Crimea stays with Russia, that place is going eat up a lot money.

i'd say you are mostly wrong in your speculations except our economy being in the toilet. it's one of the reasons for letting spartak die but not the biggest. with white elephants and a new club in sochi that are gonna gobble up state money there's no room for spartak, that's for sure

 

[Jussi]

i'd say you are mostly wrong in your speculations except our economy being in the toilet. it's one of the reasons for letting spartak die but not the biggest. with white elephants and a new club in sochi that are gonna gobble up state money there's no room for spartak, that's for sure

It's not my speculation but of someone who's lived in St. Petersburg for a long while (and is an SKA fan).

 

[FreshFruit]

It's not my speculation but of someone who's lived in St. Petersburg for a long while (and is an SKA fan).

That doesn't mean that his/her's verdict has more weight than from a Lev Praha's fan living in Czech Republic.

You do love to play with words quite often if it is a tool to gain you personal power or satisfaction in this case more credibility, you Machiavelliean.

i'd say you are mostly wrong in your speculations except our economy being in the toilet. it's one of the reasons for letting spartak die but not the biggest. with white elephants and a new club in sochi that are gonna gobble up state money there's no room for spartak, that's for sure

I don't think that Russia's economy is in the toilet( it's not great either). There is a growth on global scale and Russia's economy is growing more than EU's and America's. In ten years Russia is probably safely crusising amongst 5 most advanced and "richest" nations in the world.

Yap, Crimea is gonna to eat 50 billions $. That's more proof of an Ukrainian undevelopment and bad policies in past 20 years. It will definitely be a major blow for some clubs that are on the verge of folding.

- KHL ignored the RHF's request/demand of 3 foreign player limit and instead raised to 7. Mutko took the matter to Putin and their going to stick with 5. This affair damaged the relationship between the KHL and the government and Mutko is relatively pissed off now while also fairly powerful.

RHF has power, but sure as hell they don't have Putin like power. It is a blow for KHL sure, but sooner than later foreigners limit will change, upwards.

 

[Jussi]

That doesn't mean that his/her's verdict has more weight than from a Lev Praha's fan living in Czech Republic.

I don't think that Russia's economy is in the toilet( it's not great either). There is a growth on global scale and Russia's economy is growing more than EU's and America's. In ten years Russia is probably safely crusising amongst 5 most advanced and "richest" nations in the world.

Yap, Crimea is gonna to eat 50 billions $. That's more proof of an Ukrainian undevelopment and bad policies in past 20 years. It will definitely be a major blow for some clubs that are on the verge of folding.

RHF has power, but sure as hell they don't have Putin like power. It is a blow for KHL sure, but sooner than later foreigners limit will change, upwards.

If you saw who the opinions were coming from, you'd give much more credence to them. So yes, it does matter whose opinion it is.

If you've paid any attention to economic news recently, you'd know their economy has been hit tremendously. There's zero chance of any foreign investments happening any time soon and the companies operating there have taken huge hits (especialyl Finnish ones)

 

[FreshFruit]

If you saw who the opinions were coming from, you'd give much more credence to them. So yes, it does matter whose opinion it is.

Then please share us that information if you source agrees to. I'm not claiming that your source is fraud or wrong I claim that just because someone has lived in Russia for many years and is supporter of SKA doesn't mean that his verdict gains weight just because of that.
I wont judge institutions or people just because of one individual.

With that in mind there are already rumors that actual limit is again changed to 7. We wont now until season starts of if this continus on.

If you've paid any attention to economic news recently, you'd know their economy has been hit tremendously. There's zero chance of any foreign investments happening any time soon and the companies operating there have taken huge hits (especialyl Finnish ones)

And if you've paid any attention you'd know that many influental Russian companies like Gazprom are now selling its materials and patents in Chinese Yuan and currencies of respectable countries they trade with and there is also economic initiative, signed between Russia and Iran which means goods to goods trade( Russia gets oil, Iran gets help with infrastructure, engineers and some goods).

The point of that trade is to isolate and crush Petrodollar economy(if you don't know about that, please google, it's the cornserstone of american economy and foreign policy). And if you dig little further you'll see that America is not having such bright economic future if Petrodollar falls.

Also, Germany is highly against economic sanctions against Russia which is pissing US goverment. German companies are major player in this German politics 'cause they don't want to lose such lucrative market as Russian. German companies are taking hit, no illusions, but their infrastructure, products and jobs in Russia are still operating.

These are not the 50's. You can't isolate Russia and expect that Europe will survive without a scar, or even America( Petrodollar) which sanctions to Russia only accelerated Russias trying to crush the monopoly of Petrodollar.

 

[Killion]

Then please share us that information if you source agrees to.....

Jussi's "source" is from another chat-board. We do not permit linking of alternative chat-boards here at hfBoards regardless of origin.... He is therefore free to name his source & or provide similar comments from this individual in whatever accredited media-links he can dig up.... as for the economics & political situation, lets try & reel this back in somewhat please.

 

[Jussi]

The source was username SKA1946 from jatkoaika.com boards, whose lived and worked long in St. Petersburg (and an obvious SKA fan) and knows a lot more about the mindset of the politics and sports in Russia than for example a Lev fan from Prague.

 

[kp61c]

The source was username SKA1946 from jatkoaika.com boards, whose lived and worked long in St. Petersburg (and an obvious SKA fan) and knows a lot more about the mindset of the politics and sports in Russia than for example a Lev fan from Prague.

it doesn't make him right, does it?

 

[Jussi]

it doesn't make him right, does it?

Well he's more likely to be more in tune with the atmosphere in the sports culture due to having lived there for some time (IIRC he's over 40 has lived there for over a decade).

 

[kp61c]

Well he's more likely to be more in tune with the atmosphere in the sports culture due to having lived there for some time (IIRC he's over 40 has lived there for over a decade).

the irony of that reasoning isn't lost on me

 

[Peter25]

How are Russian teams supposed to compete with teams like Lev or even Barys who will fill their lineup with foreigners if the limit for Russian teams is going to decreased to three?

Stupid, stupid decision. Russia does not produce enough players to fill the current Russian teams with quality players even now.

Hopefully the decision will be reversed.

 

[vorky]

How are Russian teams supposed to compete with teams like Lev or even Barys who will fill their lineup with foreigners if the limit for Russian teams is going to decreased to three?

Stupid, stupid decision. Russia does not produce enough players to fill the current Russian teams with quality players even now.

Hopefully the decision will be reversed.

Limit wont decrease to three, it is only Tretyak´s wish.

 

[SoundAndFury]

How are Russian teams supposed to compete with teams like Lev or even Barys who will fill their lineup with foreigners if the limit for Russian teams is going to decreased to three?

By getting and developing good Russian players? Isn't proving Russian superiority a part of your MO?

 

[Peter25]

By getting and developing good Russian players? Isn't proving Russian superiority a part of your MO?

No. I have repeatedly told here that Russian development system sucks right now and the only reason why the KHL is the best league in Europe is because of the number of good foreign players. You should try to read better what I write.

Russian hockey is currently at it's worst form since.... ever. Not even in the 1990's was the state of Russian hockey as bad as it is now.