GDT: New Jersey Devils @ New York Islanders 2:00 PM

[Triumph]

People think you need every player in your lineup to be skilled but it's more about diversifying your talent. To make a great hockey team you need players to bring different qualities to the game. That includes having dudes who just lay people out & are in the lineup for the sole purpose of preventing head hunting. It's greatly underestimated how a big hit can change a way a player thinks the game. Just knowing there is a guy in the lineup who will 100% retaliate makes a big difference mentally. Theres nothing more pathetic then a team that let's the star players get laid out with no fight. If you don't have a backbone there is 0 chance you make it to the finals.

You're absolutely right and that's why a Devils star defenseman never received a brutal cheap shot in the playoffs when Stevens was around.

 

[SpitfireG]

On top of that, he's an absolute beauty. What a legend.

Rango has a goal/PG this preseason including games for Belarus. He has a potential to become hockey Ronaldo with his attitude and killer skills.

 

[NJDevs26]

So what’s the solution then if having harder players isn’t the answer or a deterrent, just let our best players keep getting targeted? That’s no solution either. The only choices shouldn’t be go full Rangers derp or stay full soft pacifist and hope the refs and league take care of it.

Unfortunately M3S is mostly right, the league in general has gone soft towards policing rough stuff and having Parros as DPS head doesn’t help.

 

[Call Me Al]

giving their star player a love tap in response isn’t crazy, would have liked to see that. hopefully it’s nothing but if it’s worse than that we play them the last game before the season starts and i don’t think we should take it easy on their guy

 

[Triumph]

So what’s the solution then if having harder players isn’t the answer or a deterrent, just let our best players keep getting targeted? That’s no solution either. The only choices shouldn’t be go full Rangers derp or stay full soft pacifist and hope the refs and league take care of it.

Unfortunately M3S is mostly right, the league in general has gone soft towards policing rough stuff and having Parros as DPS head doesn’t help.

Having enforcers or the like is not a deterrent. I can hear arguments that having a player like that increases morale when he goes back at the cheap shotting player, but that's about it. Ross Johnston is 6'5" 235 and has scored 23 goals in the 6 seasons he has played pro hockey. He knows exactly what his job is and why he gets an NHL paycheck.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Having enforcers or the like is not a deterrent. I can hear arguments that having a player like that increases morale when he goes back at the cheap shotting player, but that's about it. Ross Johnston is 6'5" 235 and has scored 23 goals in the 6 seasons he has played pro hockey. He knows exactly what his job is and why he gets an NHL paycheck.

I’ve heard countless NHLers say the exact opposite.

 

[The 29th Pick]

I’ve heard countless NHLers say the exact opposite.

I've seen hockey long enough to know this is true, maybe having tough guys isn't a big deterrent, but having NO tough guys give's players free will to take advantage.

 

[Triumph]

I’ve heard countless NHLers say the exact opposite.

Most people feel safer riding in a car than flying on a plane even though flying is statistically far safer than driving. This belief in enforcers is ingrained in the game for the last 40 years, but there's 2 referees and 2 linesmen and cameras all over the rink. The league catches the stuff away from the play, they don't do a great job, but they do a much better job than 20+ years ago. Players are generally safer now and most teams do not have enforcers. How did that happen?

After your playing career is done, it becomes okay to express thoughts about the fears you had a player, but I don't believe these fears really stopped people from doing in the moment stuff.

 

[McDuffz88]

Having enforcers or the like is not a deterrent. I can hear arguments that having a player like that increases morale when he goes back at the cheap shotting player, but that's about it. Ross Johnston is 6'5" 235 and has scored 23 goals in the 6 seasons he has played pro hockey. He knows exactly what his job is and why he gets an NHL paycheck.

I disagree. No coach wants their young stars targeted. By having a mentality of if you touch our stars then we'll destroy yours it sends a message to the other coach to not goon up the game. Do you think coaches/players not recognize this? If we had someone able to head hunt Barzal I guarantee you Hughes wouldn't of been targeted all game. Theres a reason he kept getting laid out until he finally got injured. That's because the opponent knew we weren't gonna do anything about it.

 

[Triumph]

I disagree. No coach wants their young stars targeted. By having a mentality of if you touch our stars then we'll destroy yours it sends a message to the other coach to not goon up the game. Do you think coaches/players not recognize this? If we had someone able to head hunt Barzal I guarantee you Hughes wouldn't of been targeted all game. Theres a reason he kept getting laid out until he finally got injured. That's because the opponent knew we weren't gonna do anything about it.

You're absolutely right. Back in the days when all teams dressed enforcers, nobody went after anybody and there were no cheap hits thrown.

Part of believing this just means having no memory at all. Besides Domi on Niedermayer, do you remember why Niedermayer was suspended 10 games in 2000? For deliberately swinging his stick at Peter Worrell, a guy who would hit every Devil in sight when we played Florida. The Devils dressed Colin White, Scott Stevens, Kryz Oliwa, Randy McKay, and Ken Daneyko for that game, and still Worrell took runs at guys all night. Did the Devils just need an even bigger guy?

 

[MartyOwns]

daws is really impressive, with that frame he could be a steal

 

[Nocashstyle]

Most people feel safer riding in a car than flying on a plane even though flying is statistically far safer than driving. This belief in enforcers is ingrained in the game for the last 40 years, but there's 2 referees and 2 linesmen and cameras all over the rink. The league catches the stuff away from the play, they don't do a great job, but they do a much better job than 20+ years ago. Players are generally safer now and most teams do not have enforcers. How did that happen?

After your playing career is done, it becomes okay to express thoughts about the fears you had a player, but I don't believe these fears really stopped people from doing in the moment stuff.

You're just using fallacies here.

 

[MauDevils]

I miss Andrew Peters.

Said nobody ever.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I miss Andrew Peters.

Said nobody ever.

I’m not arguing the game needs talentless goons. But there is certainly still a use for someone that can play and also drop the gloves when needed. Maybe Wood even fits that mold for the Devils. He’s shown a willingness to drop them with most. He didn’t play yesterday so who knows what would have happened if he did.

 

[Triumph]

You're just using fallacies here.

As opposed to the players you cited who have done careful study of games with and without enforcers. I do think a lot of players feel safer when they have an enforcer on the team. I do not believe that there is any evidence to justify this.

 

[MauDevils]

He didn’t play yesterday so who knows what would have happened if he did.

Absolutely nothing. Just like all the goons we ever had.

Remember when Wayne Simmonds was supposed to keep Jack safe?

 

[Nocashstyle]

As opposed to the players you cited who have done careful study of games with and without enforcers. I do think a lot of players feel safer when they have an enforcer on the team. I do not believe that there is any evidence to justify this.

You mean the player who actually played in the NHL and can definitively state that having a tough guy on the other team is a deterrent? You’re moving the goal posts here now talking about overall safety. Your original post said “not a deterrent.”

 

[Nocashstyle]

Absolutely nothing. Just like all the goons we ever had.

Remember when Wayne Simmonds was supposed to keep Jack safe?

I mean, I don’t really recall many cheapshots on Hughes, but go off…

 

[Triumph]

I’m not arguing the game needs talentless goons. But there is certainly still a use for someone that can play and also drop the gloves when needed. Maybe Wood even fits that mold for the Devils. He’s shown a willingness to drop them with most. He didn’t play yesterday so who knows what would have happened if he did.

Ross Johnston is 6'5 235", Wood is listed at 6'2" 195. So maybe Wood fights Johnston and probably loses, or maybe he fights someone else, and it's considered 'settled', somehow.

One thing that I think has contributed to the decline of the enforcer is how big they got - the number of guys who are huge and can play hockey at an NHL level is so small, now throw in the willingness to fight every night and you've got a much smaller population. Ross Johnston is clearly pretty awful but even he's better than guys like Trevor Gillies or Derek Boogaard.

 

[ninetyeight]

Hilarious that we were getting shutout until Schneider came into the game.

Both goals were stoppable. We’ve seen Sharangovich score on actual NHL goalies before on that shot, but the Jankowski goal stunk. He scored on himself.

Thought Cory would bounce back since it’s been 3 years now since the hip surgery, but he’ll only be bouncing back to the press box.

If they can't score more than 1 goal against an AHL lineup, Cory is not the one to blame.

 

[Triumph]

You mean the player who actually played in the NHL and can definitively state that having a tough guy on the other team is a deterrent? You’re moving the goal posts here now talking about overall safety. Your original post said “not a deterrent.”

It's very easy for an enforcer after his career is over to embrace the role that he had and talk about how afraid he was of the other guys out there. It's a form of mutual respect, now that the battles are over, that each guy was just trying to do his job. And I do believe that they were all afraid of each other, it's very dangerous stuff, I'm sure they all saw e.g. Todd Fedoruk hit his head on the ice. I just do not believe that in the moment, it stops players from throwing body checks or cheap hits. It is an incredibly fast game and guys are making split-second decisions, and for players who are put out there for pugilism, they understand their role. Again, I just heard how Scott Stevens stopped people from doing stuff, and I'm sure there's hundreds of players who would admit that they were afraid of Stevens, who would praise his physical play, but who knew that their job was to f*** with the other team and Scott Stevens wasn't going to stop them. I watched hockey in that era, and I don't remember any shortage of cheap plays against the Devils.

 

[EXTRAS]

How did talvitie look?

 

[Bleedred]

If they can't score more than 1 goal against an AHL lineup, Cory is not the one to blame.

Cory let in two bad goals (customary these days) and one completely embarrassing goal. He doesn’t belong on an NHL roster anymore. Something I pumped in 2018 and caught a lot of shit for.

Not even the Islanders would give him a single start or relief appearance last year, when every other team was using three goalies. Not even when they had a playoff spot locked up.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

How did talvitie look?

No one really stood out, but he did rip one shot off the bar. Actually, I thought he had a strong game relative to most of his teammates.

 

[goonybird]

that game looked like the post-deadline Cammalleri-era Devils with injuries. I'm glad it was a tryout roster with like 4 NHLers instead of everything we had