New Coach: Flyers D Need To Be More Mobile, Younger

[sawchuk1971]

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phi...ers-need-defensive-depth?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

“When you see games today, it’s played at such a high speed,†Hakstol said. “You’ve got to be as good a team without the puck, you’ve got to work and play fast without the puck and with good structure. It’s about transition.

“But you’ve got to have the puck. You’ve got to get the puck in order to be able to transition up ice. You’re going to see with me an expectation that our defensemen are involved in an awful lot of our play in terms of our play with the puck. I think it’s essential both getting up the ice as well as i the zone.â€

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[DrinkFightFlyers]

New Coach: We need to score more goals, allow fewer goals.

 

[Tankadelphia]

buh bye schenn and gross

 

[PALE PWNR]

^ We may not see Gudas in a Flyers uniform

 

[Jtown]

luke schenn is reading this and crying . Meanwhile I'm laughing.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

I get the cap argument for Gudas, but I really think some posters are in for a surprise. He struggles with defensive positioning and handles the puck worse than Grossmann.

 

[Embiid]

buh bye schenn and gross

What do you mean....Gross's blind clearing attempts don't fit with Hakstol's philosophy nor Schenn's blazing skating speed?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Grossmann just fainted..

#news at 11...

 

[Embiid]

Luke Schenn strikes again....perfect example of what Hakstol doesn't want to see....

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2014020300-473-h

 

[blinds]

I haven't seen many people that I think agree, but I'd like to hang on to Schenn this offseason to see what Hakstol can do with him. I think he's still got some unrealized upside. Lavi and Berube were far from ideal coaches when it comes to developing defensemen.

Out of Schenn, Gudas and Grossmann, I feel like Schenn is the only one who could be more than a bottom pairing guy and his contract isn't exactly a huge burden going forward.

 

[Random Forest]

I get the cap argument for Gudas, but I really think some posters are in for a surprise. He struggles with defensive positioning and handles the puck worse than Grossmann.

If Grossmann were used as a #6 and only took 900k off our cap, no one would hate him. He'd be the Bellemarre of our D.

I don't think people will have a problem if that's what Gudas is for us.

 

[kelmitchell]

If Grossmann were used as a #6 and only took 900k off our cap, no one would hate him. He'd be the Bellemarre of our D.

I don't think people will have a problem if that's what Gudas is for us.

Oh, you couldn't be more wrong sir, I'd still hate grossman, I'd still think he needs to be banished to Siberia to watch trees grow

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

If Grossmann were used as a #6 and only took 900k off our cap, no one would hate him. He'd be the Bellemarre of our D.

I don't think people will have a problem if that's what Gudas is for us.

Except Gudas isn't as good as Grossmann.

Like I said, I understand prefering an awful player at a minimal cap hit to a struggling player at a bigger cap hit--but I think expectations re: Gudas are a bit unrealistic. He's basically the defensive version of Zac Rinaldo (EDIT: in the sense that he has a tendency to run around, get himself out of position, and take some undisciplined penalties), without the speed.

Schenn gets too much hate. He's slow, no doubt. But he's not nearly as brutal with the puck as most suggest. I'd like to see him play in a situation in which he has a reasonable chance at success before dumping him.

 

[Embiid]

Except Gudas isn't as good as Grossmann.

Like I said, I understand prefering an awful player at a minimal cap hit to a struggling player at a bigger cap hit--but I think expectations re: Gudas are a bit unrealistic. He's basically the defensive version of Zac Rinaldo, without the speed.

I don't know...Gudas is supposedly a top 4 D man

 

[Embiid]

Except Gudas isn't as good as Grossmann.

Like I said, I understand prefering an awful player at a minimal cap hit to a struggling player at a bigger cap hit--but I think expectations re: Gudas are a bit unrealistic. He's basically the defensive version of Zac Rinaldo, without the speed.

Schenn gets too much hate. He's slow, no doubt. But he's not nearly as brutal with the puck as most suggest. I'd like to see him play in a situation in which he has a reasonable chance at success before dumping him.

No he's brutal without the puck more so than anything......and if Hakstol wants him to get involved in the cycle on offense he is not the type of D you want pinching or else he'll look like he does in that link I posted where he get's blown away on the transition. This isn't about hate with Luke Schenn it is about the reality that he is limited with his skillset and he is not the ideal player for what Hakstol wants to incorporate...

 

[YEM]

luke schenn is reading this and crying.

LSchenn can read?

 

[GKJ]

Sounds like a solid criteria for needing to keep Nick Schultz for 2 years

 

[FLYguy3911]

I haven't seen many people that I think agree, but I'd like to hang on to Schenn this offseason to see what Hakstol can do with him. I think he's still got some unrealized upside. Lavi and Berube were far from ideal coaches when it comes to developing defensemen.

Out of Schenn, Gudas and Grossmann, I feel like Schenn is the only one who could be more than a bottom pairing guy and his contract isn't exactly a huge burden going forward.

So Schenn plays better than he did last season, we sign him to a new deal? I don't think so.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

I think Luke should stay til next season, he has more potential to excel in the new system than Gross or Gudas. His skating, stick handling, and passing are all better, though that doesn't mean he's very good at that. But he also plays with his brother and unless they're shipping out Brayden too (which I also think would be a mistake) then they should keep him.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

No he's brutal without the puck more so than anything......and if Hakstol wants him to get involved in the cycle on offense he is not the type of D you want pinching or else he'll look like he does in that link I posted where he get's blown away on the transition. This isn't about hate with Luke Schenn it is about the reality that he is limited with his skillset and he is not the ideal player for what Hakstol wants to incorporate...

That makes more sense, though I'm not sure its realistic to turn what the Flyers currently have into an offensively-engaged and mobile corps of blue-liners over night.

I'm just saying, of the three--Schenn, Grossmann, and Gudas, Schenn is the least problematic and has the most upside.

 

[Random Forest]

Except Gudas isn't as good as Grossmann.

Like I said, I understand prefering an awful player at a minimal cap hit to a struggling player at a bigger cap hit--but I think expectations re: Gudas are a bit unrealistic. He's basically the defensive version of Zac Rinaldo, without the speed.

That's a pretty unfair simplification. The comparison of Grossmann and Gudas is altogether unfair, actually. Yeah, they share some qualities in that they're slow and unskilled with the puck, but being a "stay at home defender" doesn't mean you are the same as another SHD.

In a #6 role, Gudas doesn't need to be a shutdown defender. He needs to be reliable in the D zone and be capable of making short 10-15 foot passes in transition. He doesn't need to be much, and he shouldn't be compared to Grossmann. They're different players with different skill sets even if they do share some major qualities.

And the comparison to Rinaldo is pretty ridiculous. Rinaldo has been hurting this team almost every shift for several years now. Gudas has been a reliable member of TB's defense for years. He might not be great, but he hasn't been hurting his team like Rinaldo has. He's been steady and done what's been asked of him. Like Bellemarre.

Schenn gets too much hate. He's slow, no doubt. But he's not nearly as brutal with the puck as most suggest. I'd like to see him play in a situation in which he has a reasonable chance at success before dumping him.

I agree with this. Hakstol was a big of Matt Greene, so it's not entirely unrealistic for him to possibly see value in Schenn as well. I don't think Schenn is bad with the puck at all.

EDIT: That said, Schenn won't be too hard to move this summer, and we need to clear some room, so he'll likely be the logical choice to dump.

 

[GKJ]

Schenn falls into the Coburn category where he's often criticized for what he isn't.

 

[Embiid]

Schenn falls into the Coburn category where he's often criticized for what he isn't.

That borders on a false analogy/equivalency because Coburn at least had the skillset for today's NHL..more so than Schenn does. Moreover, Schenn will never be a big minute eater as a result...Coburn was ...he just wasn't a true number 1. Schenn is a fringe second pairing D man....but more of a 5. He requires sheltered minutes. I don't see that changing with Hakstol if he does stay on which I don't think he will given his contract term...

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

That's a pretty unfair simplification. The comparison of Grossmann and Gudas is altogether unfair, actually. Yeah, they share some qualities in that they're slow and unskilled with the puck, but being a "stay at home defender" doesn't mean you are the same as another SHD.

In a #6 role, Gudas doesn't need to be a shutdown defender. He needs to be reliable in the D zone and be capable of making short 10-15 foot passes in transition. He doesn't need to be much, and he shouldn't be compared to Grossmann. They're different players with different skill sets even if they do share some major qualities.

And the comparison to Rinaldo is pretty ridiculous. Rinaldo has been hurting this team almost every shift for several years now. Gudas has been a reliable member of TB's defense for years. He might not be great, but he hasn't been hurting his team like Rinaldo has. He's been steady and done what's been asked of him. Like Bellemarre.

I don't think the Bellemare comparison is any more valid, honestly. He's quick, defensively responsible, and effective at moving the puck out of the zone.

My point with the Rinaldo comparison is this: he gets a lot of hate despite his cap hit because he's a liability on the ice and brings little to nothing in return.

I suppose I've just seen a different Gudas than you, but I don't see a guy who's adept at making the quick pass under pressure to trigger a breakout. I also don't see a guy who will generally be in the right spot in the defensive zone. He tends to run around a bit and look for the big hit, and he doesn't have the foot speed to cover those mistakes. It is that lack of discipline that makes him a bit more like Rinaldo than Bellemare IMO, though of course that entire comparison breaks down upon any kind of scrutiny.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't think the Bellemare comparison is any more valid, honestly. He's quick, defensively responsible, and effective at moving the puck out of the zone.

I'm not talking about skill sets. You can't compare a forward's skill set to a defenseman's.

I'm saying that in a bottom pairing role for TB, Gudas has had the relative impact of someone like Bellemarre.

My point with the Rinaldo comparison is this: he gets a lot of hate despite his cap hit because he's a liability on the ice and brings little to nothing in return.

That's because Rinaldo is THAT bad. Hard to imagine Gudas being that bad.