Post-Game Talk: Never In Doubt | Leafs Win 8-5

[dimi78]

You missed Greg Zaun's advice to young players (and that of Sports Psychologists). Get off social media and get the negativity out of your living room and following you everywhere.

Public sentiment may be influenced by media but (sadly), a majority of people get their news from social media. Things become a thing faster than they used to. Accuracy and authenticity be damned.

Didn't miss it... HF isn't twitter, facebook or Instagram that thankfully I'm not a part of

 

[dimi78]

It actually is about scoring goals. Yesterday was a perfect example of this. The NHL has moved forward. To win you need to be able to score, you can get by with a subpar defence. You need to be able to play a transition game, skate and score lots. It's not about winning 1-0 anymore.

Also quite frankly you have been the leader of this overrated theory of the "defensive player". Taking away JVR does not make our team better, no matter which way you look at it. Unless you are getting a top 4 d for him, there is no need to move him. Not every player on your team is going to be a two-way beast. He is what he is, but what he brings to the team is still valuable. If you think Leivo is going to bring this upgrade defensively I'm not sure what games youve been watching. Because he has not looked that great on the defensive side and he's not the best skater.

It's about compete and that's what JVR doesn't bring. The simplest of all things to understand if you don't compete you will lose. What does JVR lose a lot of? Puck battles. What does winning puck battles provide a team? Opportunities to play with the puck. What does playing with the puck get you? Scoring opportunities and time without worrying about playing defense.

JVR is a passenger numbers be damned because they come from work of his team mates on the ice more than him actually creating something.

 

[hockeyes]

I don't see the point in focusing on JVR/Bozak, the odds of either being on the team next year are essentially zero. They are what they are and have been the same for years now. I expect that as the season progresses and the games get tighter their TOI will drop.

 

[thewave]

I don't see the point in focusing on JVR/Bozak, the odds of either being on the team next year are essentially zero. They are what they are and have been the same for years now. I expect that as the season progresses and the games get tighter their TOI will drop.

I think we are contemplating addition by subtraction tbh.

 

[Apotheosis]

I think we are contemplating addition by subtraction tbh.

I think people also underrate the potential ceilings of some of our prospects. Outside of JVR's pedigree, someone like Kapanen definitely has the tools and the ceiling to replace his scoring if not improve on it (he's got McDavid tier speed and that alone will give him a boat load of chances). Someone like Brooks has impressed at every level he has played at as well and can replace Bozak who had no pedigree being signed out of college as an FA. Addition by subtraction is the right call here. We get better defensively and possession wise (they are a black hole) and the team is better for it. Brooks or any comparable prospect centre and Kapanen are faster skaters as well, which just makes us faster as it is. Add in Liljegren and you see where this is going.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Rosen was not good last night, but I'll give him a pass. The jitters for the home opener must have been a huge factor, especially for a team with big expectations from a passionate fan base this year. Not to mention Carrick wasn't nearly as good a partner last night as he was with Borgman on Wednesday. As of now, Borgman does have the edge though.

 

[dimi78]

I think people also underrate the potential ceilings of some of our prospects. Outside of JVR's pedigree, someone like Kapanen definitely has the tools and the ceiling to replace his scoring if not improve on it (he's got McDavid tier speed and that alone will give him a boat load of chances). Someone like Brooks has impressed at every level he has played at as well and can replace Bozak who had no pedigree being signed out of college as an FA. Addition by subtraction is the right call here. We get better defensively and possession wise (they are a black hole) and the team is better for it. Brooks or any comparable prospect centre and Kapanen are faster skaters as well, which just makes us faster as it is. Add in Liljegren and you see where this is going.

Kapanen competes and wins puck battles as much as he may lose. That alone would improve the line that's in discussion. He has offensive skills to go with it but if he or any other guy we may mention didn't have the compete to go with the skill & talent level it would be more of the same if not worst.

There's a reason why Babcock says the things he says. There's a reason why Hyman plays up in the line up and JVR is hidden. How do you beat skill? You out work it. How do you beat skill that out works you? You don't. Ask McDavid in that game where Kadri flat out worked him all game long including the game winner in OT.

Compete is the single most important fundamental at this level.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I agree with you. Babs obviously does not like Leivo as much as some of us and it seems also as someone in the management. However there are 80 more games in season and a lot can happen.

A few years ago Babs said something to the effect of "Leivo didn't have an NHL summer and that's why he's not in the lineup." Perhaps he still feels he's not in shape or stills holds that against him.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Who needs defense when you have GOALS

 

[ShaneFalco]

A few years ago Babs said something to the effect of "Leivo didn't have an NHL summer and that's why he's not in the lineup." Perhaps he still feels he's not in shape or stills holds that against him.

Then ship him out. Don't let him rot on the bench again while Matt Martin gets regular shifts

 

[Muston Atthews]

Didn’t like Rosen’s game last night. Seemed a bit overwhelmed. Borgman seemed to calm Carrick down, Rosen and Carrick seemed very scramble

 

[firstemperor]

A few years ago Babs said something to the effect of "Leivo didn't have an NHL summer and that's why he's not in the lineup." Perhaps he still feels he's not in shape or stills holds that against him.

He probably sees something in-practice or in the off-season that leads him to being so hard on Leivo. He rags about him more on his skating than he should with the media. I get that he wants him to keep his feet moving so he can be the best player that he can be, but he seems to be particularly discouraging about it in interviews. While I agree Leivo being competitive as a skater does take his game to the next level, he makes it seem like he is a bad skater when I don't think that's close to the case from what we've seen.

At the same time, he acknowledges there are different expectations for certain players......but he is seemingly particularly hard on a guy he's put in the pressbox most nights.

I feel bad for Leivo because while I agree there is clearly a disconnect from what we as fans know/see, I really think Babcock sees Leivo in some underwhelming light that is/will be hard for Leivo to shake.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Then ship him out. Don't let him rot on the bench again while Matt Martin gets regular shifts

Can he fill Martin's role.

Leivo is great at scoring on team team that doesn't need it. What else can he do?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Didn’t like Rosen’s game last night. Seemed a bit overwhelmed. Borgman seemed to calm Carrick down, Rosen and Carrick seemed very scramble

To be fair, it was his first nhl game and he's not anywhere near the physical force that Borgman is. He needs more time but he has the tools to be good once he gets adjusted.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Well, that line consisting of a #1 winger and a #2 centre were the only forwards that were minus players (along with the Rosen-Carrick paring, all 5 were -2 and every other player in the lineup was a + player) last night. Kind of telling if you ask me.

Edit: sorry, Reilly was even.

2 games is telling? I don't like the line either but it's still the best 3rd line in the NHL

 

[ShaneFalco]

Can he fill Martin's role.

Leivo is great at scoring on team team that doesn't need it. What else can he do?

And Martin's role 7 games out of 10 is what again? He's def not needed every game
Leivo doesn't just score, he is decent defensively too
But let him go for gawd's sake if you're not going to play him.

 

[Bluelines]

May I ask where is the "Luck"? Game one, one of the leagues top ten PK units last year shut down 16 minutes of shorthanded time. that's a carry-on from last year.

You say its a carry on from last years team? Last year how any times did an opposing team have 8 PP on us and they scored zero times?

If it wasn't for Anderson playing out of his mind for 60 minutes that game would have been a bad loss. I'm not sure leaving our goalie out to dry every game is a winning proposition long term.

I guess things we need to get buttoned down is boxing out the opponent in front of our net, keeping shots to the perimeter, taking away the center of the ice, I get it that we are just 2 games in but there is work to do. Not sure that we will out score our mistakes every game.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Not a great win at all. Defense needs major reconstruction.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You say its a carry on from last years team? Last year how any times did an opposing team have 8 PP on us and they scored zero times?

If it wasn't for Anderson playing out of his mind for 60 minutes that game would have been a bad loss. I'm not sure leaving our goalie out to dry every game is a winning proposition long term.

I guess things we need to get buttoned down is boxing out the opponent in front of our net, keeping shots to the perimeter, taking away the center of the ice, I get it that we are just 2 games in but there is work to do. Not sure that we will out score our mistakes every game.

so if it had been 2 - it would have been okay but 8 is now "Luck" the carry over for our PK not for the amount we killed. and if you are saying it was just Andersen - that's a disservice for Fehr, Marincin, Hainsey Brown who was on the kill. those played well.

I'm not disagreeing that we need to button down but some of those calls in Winnipeg were stupidity (both on the ref and on Leo). again i'm not seeing the "luck" you are saying and in my opinion we didn't leave Anderson left to dry for the whole game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It actually is about scoring goals. Yesterday was a perfect example of this. The NHL has moved forward. To win you need to be able to score, you can get by with a subpar defence. You need to be able to play a transition game, skate and score lots. It's not about winning 1-0 anymore.

Also quite frankly you have been the leader of this overrated theory of the "defensive player". Taking away JVR does not make our team better, no matter which way you look at it. Unless you are getting a top 4 d for him, there is no need to move him. Not every player on your team is going to be a two-way beast. He is what he is, but what he brings to the team is still valuable. If you think Leivo is going to bring this upgrade defensively I'm not sure what games youve been watching. Because he has not looked that great on the defensive side and he's not the best skater.

LOL what? You must have me confused with Mess, he's the one always going on about "defence wins" and I'm always on his case telling him that offence is just as important. And as far as I'm concerned, it's never been about winning 1-0, it's always been about winning, period. I think there's some truth in what Dimi's been saying and JVR simply isn't a winner. And if you're concerned about Leivo's skating there's always Kapanen, frankly I think both those guys are ready play.

Not a great win at all. Defense needs major reconstruction.

Agree completely, not a great win. For game 2 of the season though it was OK, you take the win and move on, and the coaching staff has something to talk about at practice. Chicago should be a much tougher test.

 

[Gary Nylund]

so if it had been 2 - it would have been okay but 8 is now "Luck" the carry over for our PK not for the amount we killed. and if you are saying it was just Andersen - that's a disservice for Fehr, Marincin, Hainsey Brown who was on the kill. those played well.

I'm not disagreeing that we need to button down but some of those calls in Winnipeg were stupidity (both on the ref and on Leo). again i'm not seeing the "luck" you are saying and in my opinion we didn't leave Anderson left to dry for the whole game.

Yeah I agree, we won fair and square, no luck involved. But lots of room for improvement!

 

[weems]

I remember a few years back everyone thought there was no way the GS state Warriors would ever win a ship by being a prodominently perimeter shooting team.
They eventually learned how to defend well and their insane amount of talent took over and noone could keep up. I know our D looks pretty brutal at points but we are still early on in this building thing (as much as we are super competitive right now) but I think as we go forward this will improve not only with some of the young players getting more responsible but with internal promotions. It's alot easier to find a way to put together a servicable blueline then it is to aquire elite level offensive talent. I fully expect us at some point this season to make a quantity for quality type move to address our weakness.

 

[MJ65]

Yes we have won both our games and have scored 15 goals so far, nobody is worried about offense but we can not score like that every game and we need to be better in our own end and there is no question about it

 

[Gary Nylund]

I remember a few years back everyone thought there was no way the GS state Warriors would ever win a ship by being a prodominently perimeter shooting team.
They eventually learned how to defend well and their insane amount of talent took over and noone could keep up. I know our D looks pretty brutal at points but we are still early on in this building thing (as much as we are super competitive right now) but I think as we go forward this will improve not only with some of the young players getting more responsible but with internal promotions. It's alot easier to find a way to put together a servicable blueline then it is to aquire elite level offensive talent. I fully expect us at some point this season to make a quantity for quality type move to address our weakness.

If there's a move to be made I'm sure we'll make it but there's no guarantee such an opportunity will arise. That's OK too though, we'll just have to wait a bit longer. Our D situation is much better then it was with Hainsey and the Swedes and Dermott/Liljegren on the way.

 

[weems]

If there's a move to be made I'm sure we'll make it but there's no guarantee such an opportunity will arise. That's OK too though, we'll just have to wait a bit longer. Our D situation is much better then it was with Hainsey and the Swedes and Dermott/Liljegren on the way.

Yep the situation is alot more promising with the names you mentioned being added.

It's also been TWO games. We should at least wait until a bottom pairing is decided upon and give them about 25-30 games before we determine this a total gongshow of a blueline.

Last night was alot of thinking you had already won the game and taking your foot off the gas pedal.