Post-Game Talk: Never In Doubt | Leafs Win 8-5

[ToneDog]

Which is faint praise when you consider that was only the winning goal because that line allowed several goals against....

Yup only the winning goal after they blew a 5-1 lead. I call that huge. I choose to give credit where credit is due rather than only focus on the negatives.

 

[Mess]

Only 3 Leafs haven't recorded a point yet this season Brown, Fehr and Rosen and the last 2 have only played 1 game.

 

[showtime8]

Breakdown of Rangers goals:

1st (Miller) - Marner turns the puck over twice in his own zone. 2nd time he tries to reverse to Carrick as a behind the back pass. McDonagh sends it to the middle of the ice to Hayes and then to Kreider for a shot on net. Miller is in front of the net and bats in the rebound.
- Fault is really on Marner on this one. Leafs have numbers in their own zone, but the pass by Marner is turned over and in the back of the net within 15 seconds because everyone is in scramble mode to pick up their assignment.

2nd (Shattenkirk PP) - Power play goal goes through 5 bodies. Freddie can't pick it up.

3rd (Zibanejad PP) - Puck gets worked around to Freddie's right and Zibanejad is the trigger man. Freddie gets caught looking one way and the puck goes the other.
- Fault is on Freddie & Zaitsev. Kelly Hrudey made mention on this last night that he could have had it even though it was a good shot. Zaitsev was in no man's land. Didn't take Kreider to box him out or take the shooter.

4th (Staal - delayed penalty) - Marner takes the delayed penalty coming back through the neutral zone. Drops his stick and plays without it in his own end. Puck gets worked around and eventually Marc Staal walks back door and slips it in.
- Fault is on JVR & Marner (a bit). Staal comes down the side untouched and should have been checked by JVR. He loses his man and it's in the back of the net. The broadcast also made mention of the delay penalty call. Marner drops his stick so that it looks like he didn't actually hook the guy. And you're basically playing 6 on 4 cause he doesn't have a stick. Hrudey also made mention that if Andersen is playing the way he normally does, that doesn't beat him 5 hole.

5th (Zuccarello tip) - Nothing went right off this and it should have been in a better spot. Bozak wins the draw cleanly. Hainsey & Rielly can't figure out how to skate to the puck. Paul Carey beats them both to the puck, gets it to he point for a shot and its tipped in front.
- Fault = entire shift. It looked like Hainsey was expecting Rielly to get it. They didn't. Marner is 10 feet away from the point shot. Freddie ends up on his stomach? I know it's a tipped puck, but he wasn't in a good position at all.


That Bozak line definitely did struggle all night defensively. But does their offense make up for it?

 

[Budsfan]

All the complaining about this player or that player, the things I saw last night, was great playing by Hyman and his real hustle and even though Marner had an off night, he was a contributer, even with some players percieved as not playing well, we are 2-0 in wins and have scored 15 goals in the process, the whole team is playing great, from the goal out.

 

[moon111]

I can just picture giving Leivo the 4th most penalty-killing ice-time for NHL forwards. Yeah no, C.Brown isn't going anywhere.

 

[Daisy Jane]

They may have scored 15 goals in 2 games, but the way this team is relying on luck and beer league style hockey games is concerning. These guys have A LOT of work to do. Considering the main parts of this team are pretty much unchanged from last year, they should be fully aware of the systems Babcock has in place, that should be a big red flag for Babcock.

May I ask where is the "Luck"? Game one, one of the leagues top ten PK units last year shut down 16 minutes of shorthanded time. that's a carry-on from last year.

Game two, the team collectively had a bad second period (same as last year but the reasoning is different i believe) but our goalie as most number ones, gave the team a chance to come back - which we have seen the this is not Luck, this is the sheer talent of this team. Esp on the powerplay where we were 2nd in the league.

and half the league right now is playing beer league style hockey. I think for everyone (including us) we should revert to status quo around games 5-10.

I don't think Chicago will show us where we stand (as much as people are saying). Last season the Leafs lost the season series - but the Leafs in Chicago blew the lead and lost (as was their issue last season due to their youth) while they lost in Toronto in a very close matched 3-1 game (the last goal being a EN i think). I think we already showed we can hang with Chicago - the thing we need to see is will the Leafs actually break if they blow the lead (and it's tied - or more importantly, if they trail for a point of time) or will they be able to come back, and commit to the win.

they need to tighten up a bit more defensively (I think Fehr Borgman and Marincin (PK) will help that), and not be complacent (and because of last night - Babcock will stamp that out of them we'll see if it applies as quickly as the lessons of last year did).

 

[RealRockNRolla]

If we can score 8, as long as the team opposite us scores less then I genuinely don't care. 2 points is 2 points at the end of the day. Our defense will tighten up once things begin to settle with the league regarding the scoring.

 

[ACC1224]

Only caught the 3rd but had the glorious pleasure of sitting in a Montreal restaurant with all their tvs tuned to the Hab game. I rather would have been at the ACC but that was a nice consolation.

 

[Muston Atthews]

We were all over them the first and third period. Was at the game and was sitting on the side where the Leafs shot twice. 11/13 of the goals were on that side. It was electric in there

 

[Muston Atthews]

Marner didn’t look all that good either. He looked slick at times though

 

[Pookie]

tonight. that line was extremely weak. Unlike most I won't harp on them every single game, but when they had more than egregious defensive breakdowns which was the entire 5 man unit (which Bozak + JVR are apart of), - is it scapegoating or is it just pointing down facts. JVR left Zuccarello wide open at one point (and thankfully, Zuc shot wide) Bozak was off on some of his positoning and Mitch had a horrendous first 2 periods, but made up for it in the third. Carrick and Rosen (Rosen gets a bit of a bye as it was his first NHL game, but compared to Borgman he was bad, and he should go back down, and Marincin back up) were not that hot either.

Stating that as what it is (fact) is not having a scape goat. That i have to say gets as annoying as all the "oh the haters" talk that gets thrown around. Yes. a chunk of people do this, but especially when it applies to a game where they were bad, then they deserve to be chided.

C'mon Daisy.

Every season we have a player that a segment the fan base focuses on and blames for everything.

Doesn't matter if they are a top player or a bottom one. They get all the blame.

You can probably recall the scapegoats every year.

From Berg to Reimer to Bernier to Kessel to Tucker to Marincin to Murphy to Phaneuf to .... Some blame sure. But every player makes mistakes.

And the biggest mistake sometimes is the expectation of the fan base.

 

[weems]

Hainsey was a lowkey amazing add for a team like ours.

Gotta give Zeke credit on this one. He's been the #1 Hainsey truther.

 

[Pi]

Playing with this group of forwards, Gardiner and Rielly should both hit 40+. Gardiner might even be putting up 50 points this season.

 

[carko32]

Don't think Babs agrees on your assessment of Leivo. If he did you might see him in for Brown or a slumping winger but I doubt it.

I agree with you. Babs obviously does not like Leivo as much as some of us and it seems also as someone in the management. However there are 80 more games in season and a lot can happen.

 

[saltming]

Only caught the 3rd but had the glorious pleasure of sitting in a Montreal restaurant with all their tvs tuned to the Hab game. I rather would have been at the ACC but that was a nice consolation.

Ya if you can't watch us winning, watching the habs get pasted is the next best thing

 

[coupe93]

Hyman was great lastnight, I don't think he gets enough credit when it's deserved. Moore had a pretty good game as well, but in saying that, I like Fehr's PK ability much better in the short sample size.

First regular season game for Rosen wasn't as strong as Borgman's (again, small sample size). However, I think clearing the net last night was a problem which I believe Borgman should make a difference. I wonder if we'll see Rosen - Borgman pairing in the near future?

Glad we got the win, bring on Chicago.

 

[dimi78]

C'mon Daisy.

Every season we have a player that a segment the fan base focuses on and blames for everything.

Doesn't matter if they are a top player or a bottom one. They get all the blame.

You can probably recall the scapegoats every year.

From Berg to Reimer to Bernier to Kessel to Tucker to Marincin to Murphy to Phaneuf to .... Some blame sure. But every player makes mistakes.

And the biggest mistake sometimes is the expectation of the fan base.

When it comes to blaming mistakes at a constant barrage of misguided analysis of what go's on the ice your so right.

Having said that where I get critical and is something I can't stand regardless of the player talent rather it's Mathews all the way to Martin is when a player doesn't compete. There's no excuse for that period. For years I've been on this forum and listen to ridiculous claims on players like Kadri, Gardiner, Phanuef, Sundin , Kessel, Bozak , Aki freaking Berg the list go's on... claiming at some points these guys don't care, they don't work hard enough, not leaders, selfish, all the tools but no tool box, can't win with them yet now there's a clear example of one in the crap that was spewed and there's a legion that wants to ignore the fact that this player has zero compete and clear issue every time he's on the ice at both ends.

Any time his name gets mention for some freaking reason Bozak gets hemmed in as if he has anything to do with JVR's compete.

You can't win with players like that on your team, not even one. It has nothing to do with miss assignments, points, goals, and those damn advance stats that get completely over rationalized. Compete is the core fundamental that leads to winning, passengers become liabilities that effect line mates into glairing mistakes and so on.

Since that game under Carlyle where the Leafs got embarrassed ironically vs the Rangers on home ice 9-2 and JVR was laughing and joking on the ice with the opposition turned me off on him. Since then it became darn obvious why Philly traded him. He has no compete, gumption, drive to even care about winning. Not even a little. Amazing talent but not nowhere near what is needed to be a winner.

Everything that Kessel was falsely accused of is what JVR is and I'm going to be the first to say. As long as he's on the team and NO NOT BOZAK INCLUDED the Leafs will be fools gold to win a championship.

JVR must go.

 

[thewave]

When it comes to blaming mistakes at a constant barrage of misguided analysis of what go's on the ice your so right.

Having said that where I get critical and is something I can't stand regardless of the player talent rather it's Mathews all the way to Martin is when a player doesn't compete. There's no excuse for that period. For years I've been on this forum and listen to ridiculous claims on players like Kadri, Gardiner, Phanuef, Sundin , Kessel, Bozak , Aki freaking Berg the list go's on... claiming at some points these guys don't care, they don't work hard enough, not leaders, selfish, all the tools but no tool box, can't win with them yet now there's a clear example of one in the crap that was spewed and there's a legion that wants to ignore the fact that this player has zero compete and clear issue every time he's on the ice at both ends.

Any time his name gets mention for some freaking reason Bozak gets hemmed in as if he has anything to do with JVR's compete.

You can't win with players like that on your team, not even one. It has nothing to do with miss assignments, points, goals, and those damn advance stats that get completely over rationalized. Compete is the core fundamental that leads to winning, passengers become liabilities that effect line mates into glairing mistakes and so on.

Since that game under Carlyle where the Leafs got embarrassed ironically vs the Rangers on home ice 9-2 and JVR was laughing and joking on the ice with the opposition turned me off on him. Since then it became darn obvious why Philly traded him. He has no compete, gumption, drive to even care about winning. Not even a little. Amazing talent but not nowhere near what is needed to be a winner.

Everything that Kessel was falsely accused of is what JVR is and I'm going to be the first to say. As long as he's on the team and NO NOT BOZAK INCLUDED the Leafs will be fools gold to win a championship.

JVR must go.

It's actually more Bozak. He is ineffective as a C defensively. He gets points but that's about it, Bozak is the real fools gold and JVR has never even had a chance with a real C. Bozak is Smith with scoring touch. I would love to see JVR with Nylander above all.

 

[dimi78]

It's actually more Bozak. He is ineffective as a C defensively. He gets points but that's about it, Bozak is the real fools gold and JVR has never even had a chance with a real C. Bozak is Smith with scoring touch. I would love to see JVR with Nylander above all.

No it's not. JVR has zero compete not even a little. That's the problem with the line and the problem that limits what Babcock can do in mixing lines when things aren't going right. There's only one place he could be hidden with and get some offense out him that's with Marner do the incredible motor Marner has covers a lot of JVR's lack of compete.

Put him with Mathews, or Kadri and you hurt these players. Bozak get's blamed for a JVR individual issue is dead wrong.

I would love to see Bozak with Marner and anybody else. It's so painfully obvious the lack in compete from JVR compared to anybody this team. He sticks out like a sore thumb. He must go, leave Bozak alone don't blame him for JVR issues. The problem with the Bozak JVR duo is freaking JVR

 

[Pookie]

You can't win with players like that on your team, not even one. It has nothing to do with miss assignments, points, goals, and those damn advance stats that get completely over rationalized. Compete is the core fundamental that leads to winning, passengers become liabilities that effect line mates into glairing mistakes and so on.
...
JVR must go.

I'm sure if Lou was offered a trade of equal value that would help the team win, he'd make it. Hell, we even got a rental last year for the chance to win.

I've got to assume that their assessment of what the return is on the market vs what they have has so far led them to keeping JVR.

So, that's the reality.

As a fan base, knowing that, there's basically a choice. Get behind the team and offer encouragement, or use social media to try to get into his head and get him off his game in the interests of being "right" in order to run him out of town?

Which one benefits the team results we want to see?

Choices... it's a real thing.

 

[francis246]

It's not about putting up points of scoring goals, it's about winning games. When Kessel/Bozak/JVR scored a ton of points but were at the bottom of the league in +-, we're they helping the team win?

It actually is about scoring goals. Yesterday was a perfect example of this. The NHL has moved forward. To win you need to be able to score, you can get by with a subpar defence. You need to be able to play a transition game, skate and score lots. It's not about winning 1-0 anymore.

Also quite frankly you have been the leader of this overrated theory of the "defensive player". Taking away JVR does not make our team better, no matter which way you look at it. Unless you are getting a top 4 d for him, there is no need to move him. Not every player on your team is going to be a two-way beast. He is what he is, but what he brings to the team is still valuable. If you think Leivo is going to bring this upgrade defensively I'm not sure what games youve been watching. Because he has not looked that great on the defensive side and he's not the best skater.

 

[NarcoPolo]

Calle Rosen after 1 game: -15 CFRel%
Andreas Borgman after 1 game: +13.2 CFRel%

The good ole 1 game sample size.. Nevertheless, if Rosen keeps playing like the way he did last night and Borgman can form a reliable tandem with Carrick on the 3rd d pairing, this will be an easy decision.

 

[dimi78]

I'm sure if Lou was offered a trade of equal value that would help the team win, he'd make it. Hell, we even got a rental last year for the chance to win.

I've got to assume that their assessment of what the return is on the market vs what they have has so far led them to keeping JVR.

So, that's the reality.

As a fan base, knowing that, there's basically a choice. Get behind the team and offer encouragement, or use social media to try to get into his head and get him off his game in the interests of being "right" in order to run him out of town?

Which one benefits the team results we want to see?

Choices... it's a real thing.

What we say here has zero impact to the team and you know that. It's the media when they get on players when things start getting dicey. Has the media even once mention the JVR faux pas ? This guy has had it golden playing as Leaf it's others who are heavily criticized mainly Bozak & Kessel. with Phanuef, Kadri & Gardiner over the years.

I do like to fancy myself that I have the ability to see the things the coach sees and management although it's 100% a guess based on my own hockey IQ this is one of the rare cases of good hockey player that nobody wants to trade for him and it's do to his compete. Babcock has talked about JVR working more, moving his feet more, play off the cycle compete instead of just being an off the rush player and guy who stands in front the net. When is enough going to be enough?

You have Leivo sitting, You have a line that plays 4v5 on 5v5 hockey when does it get to double standards and hypocrisy if JVR get's away with not competing shift in & shift out?


JVR is the complete opposite of what get's preached by Babcock sooner or later JVR is something Babcock is going to have to own up to as a hypocrite if JVR doesn't pick his compete up.

Anyway I've made my stance. Won't get carried away with it to flood this forum of this opinion. Will just have to wait & see but as for me I'm done with JVR this is year 3 under Babcock a contract year to boot and even that hasn't motivated him to pick up his compete nothing will.

 

[Pookie]

What we say here has zero impact to the team and you know that. It's the media when they get on players when things start getting dicey. Has the media even once mention the JVR faux pas ? This guy has had it golden playing as Leaf it's others who are heavily criticized mainly Bozak & Kessel. with Phanuef, Kadri & Gardiner over the years.

I do like to fancy myself that I have the ability to see the things the coach sees and management although it's 100% a guess based on my own hockey IQ this is one of the rare cases of good hockey player that nobody wants to trade for him and it's do to his compete. Babcock has talked about JVR working more, moving his feet more, play off the cycle compete instead of just being an off the rush player and guy who stands in front the net. When is enough going to be enough?

You have Leivo sitting, You have a line that plays 4v5 on 5v5 hockey when does it get to double standards and hypocrisy if JVR get's away with not competing shift in & shift out?


JVR is the complete opposite of what get's preached by Babcock sooner or later JVR is something Babcock is going to have to own up to as a hypocrite if JVR doesn't pick his compete up.

Anyway I've made my stance. Won't get carried away with it to flood this forum of this opinion. Will just have to wait & see but as for me I'm done with JVR this is year 3 under Babcock a contract year to boot and even that hasn't motivated him to pick up his compete nothing will.

You missed Greg Zaun's advice to young players (and that of Sports Psychologists). Get off social media and get the negativity out of your living room and following you everywhere.

Public sentiment may be influenced by media but (sadly), a majority of people get their news from social media. Things become a thing faster than they used to. Accuracy and authenticity be damned.

 

[egd27]

Only caught the 3rd but had the glorious pleasure of sitting in a Montreal restaurant with all their tvs tuned to the Hab game. I rather would have been at the ACC but that was a nice consolation.

Oh that would have been fun.