Post-Game Talk: Never In Doubt | Leafs Win 8-5

[Apotheosis]

I feel inclined to agree; put Leivo and Kapanen in the line-up and remove JVR and Bozak while transitioning Nylander to centre? That makes us better defensively and arguably better offensively too.

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Kapanen - Nylander - Leivo
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
Hyman - GOAT/Aaltonen - Martin

What team in the league is ever going to shut out the Leafs with that top 9?

 

[Bluelines]

So teams tighten up as the season goes on. Wonder if this applies to the leafs too or as usual the sky is falling and the leafs d sucks.

Hope so but they were one of the worst defensive teams last year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yep the situation is alot more promising with the names you mentioned being added.

It's also been TWO games. We should at least wait until a bottom pairing is decided upon and give them about 25-30 games before we determine this a total gongshow of a blueline.

Last night was alot of thinking you had already won the game and taking your foot off the gas pedal.

Yeah I don't think it's a gong show at all and our D should be much better than last season.

I also really like your Golden State analogy, imagining the TML version that is quite pleasant and actually seems somewhat realistic.

 

[Slot]

Hope so but they were one of the worst defensive teams last year.

Marincin Marchenko Polak and Hunwick are all gone the d has changed over quite a bit. Not gonna worry yet.

 

[Bluelines]

so if it had been 2 - it would have been okay but 8 is now "Luck" the carry over for our PK not for the amount we killed. and if you are saying it was just Andersen - that's a disservice for Fehr, Marincin, Hainsey Brown who was on the kill. those played well.

I'm not disagreeing that we need to button down but some of those calls in Winnipeg were stupidity (both on the ref and on Leo). again i'm not seeing the "luck" you are saying and in my opinion we didn't leave Anderson left to dry for the whole game.

In your opinion who was the first star in WPG?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yep the situation is alot more promising with the names you mentioned being added.

It's also been TWO games. We should at least wait until a bottom pairing is decided upon and give them about 25-30 games before we determine this a total gongshow of a blueline.

Last night was alot of thinking you had already won the game and taking your foot off the gas pedal.

Yeah I don't think it's a gong show at all and our D should be much better than last season.

I also really like your Golden State analogy, imagining the TML version that is quite pleasant and actually seems somewhat realistic.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

The more I watch Nylander play the more impressed I get. I was going to buy a new Matthews Adidas jersey but I think it'll be a Nylander instead.

Just Got me a new Nylander hat. (Marner was the only other option tho)

 

[egd27]

2 games is telling? I don't like the line either but it's still the best 3rd line in the NHL

I've seen this 2 games argument a couple of times now......do we not count last season? Or the last 5 0r 6 seasons for JVR and Bozak?

They may be the best offensive 3rd line in the NHL, but I would strongly disagree they're the best overall 3rd line in the NHL.

 

[pylon17]

I remember a few years back everyone thought there was no way the GS state Warriors would ever win a ship by being a prodominently perimeter shooting team.
They eventually learned how to defend well and their insane amount of talent took over and noone could keep up. I know our D looks pretty brutal at points but we are still early on in this building thing (as much as we are super competitive right now) but I think as we go forward this will improve not only with some of the young players getting more responsible but with internal promotions. It's alot easier to find a way to put together a servicable blueline then it is to aquire elite level offensive talent. I fully expect us at some point this season to make a quantity for quality type move to address our weakness.

Golden State's MVP is Draymond Green (aka the best defensive player in the league). Green is the reason they can play that way. Not a valid comparison. Just wanted to point this out.

 

[Apotheosis]

Golden State's MVP is Draymond Green (aka the best defensive player in the league). Green is the reason they can play that way. Not a valid comparison. Just wanted to point this out.

Draymond Green is most definitely not the best defensive player in the league lo

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Golden State's MVP is Draymond Green (aka the best defensive player in the league). Green is the reason they can play that way. Not a valid comparison. Just wanted to point this out.

lol

 

[weems]

Golden State's MVP is Draymond Green (aka the best defensive player in the league). Green is the reason they can play that way. Not a valid comparison. Just wanted to point this out.

Green is certainly not that teams MVP.
Durant, Curry and Thompson would still be a extremely elite trio and be a great team. I get what your saying that Green and his defensive ability gave them an element that they were lacking but my point is moreso the style the team is built on (taking tons of 3's and really no long 2's or much post up). If you had told basketball heads 10 years ago a team that relied on 3's and really no inside presence would dominate for a few years in sucession, They'd laugh at you. Maybe the whole you need to be this elite defensive team to win the Cup is an outdated idea and the speed of the game and the skill is leaning more in the direction of having an amazing and deep offence be the true engine to your team. Just last season the Pens won the cup with a defence on paper that hardly looks that much better than the one we currently have. I know you'll throw the "They have Crosby and Malkin" and thats true but we also have talents that could/should reach elite status and our depth is shaping up to be unmatched. I'm not saying that defence isnt important just that I feel you can get by with a defence in todays game that can skate and has smarts even if that means no big name horse.

 

[weems]

I mean look at it like this.

I was on the montreal board today and read a topic "Should you build around a goalie".

With each passing day analytics and progressive thinking are coming into the game, We are learning just how important possession is. Sure you can have less of the puck some games and still win but if you ran that simulation 1 million times the team that has the puck more would come out ahead.

So if the object is gaining and controlling the puck shouldnt you be looking to build as amazing of a team possible in front of your goalie so he can basically just chill with no worries? By signing a goalie to that type of contract in a indirect way your almost admitting your team in front of him isnt good enough and he needs to save the day. Montreal is making some questionable decisions but I really believe having a goalie that makes that much money isnt optimal and certainly not how I'd build a team.

So posesssing the puck is super important. Lets take out the goalie because he cant go and get the puck. You now have 12 F and 6 D. Maybe prioritizing the most volumed position and making it super strong is a very effective way of potentially dominating possession. If your forwards are soooo fast and skilled they will have the puck WAY more then the opponent and you dont have to have a star blueline or goalie.

Not saying you can just stick any stiff in goal or your blueline can be horrendous but in a way I kind of like how our strength is up front. Much rather have that then a team with a good goalie, good D but no gamebreakers up front.

Sports are always changing in hows they're played. Basketball with the 3's, Baseball with the acceptence of the strikeout for the HR. Maybe the game of hockey will shift from "build from the net out" to build up an amazing forward core that is always in posession of the puck.

 

[jrgtml67]

news bulletin---15 goals for in 2 games, with out current lineup

not sure why you are making the post, our scoring isnt the problem, our defense, and team defense is the problem right now

I think another trade is on the horizon anyway. We have 4 goalies in the AHL, Sparks, Kask, Heeter, Pickard. Pickard is 25, Curtis is 34. Long term Pickard makes sense to be the back up. So therefore Curtis gets trade, with possibly Leivo, and or Carrick, we get a 3rd paid RHD that is a lot better than Carrick. No clue from what team. But it is crystal clear that is what we need (RHD).

 

[Duke16]

news bulletin---15 goals for in 2 games, with out current lineup

not sure why you are making the post, our scoring isnt the problem, our defense, and team defense is the problem right now

I think another trade is on the horizon anyway. We have 4 goalies in the AHL, Sparks, Kask, Heeter, Pickard. Pickard is 25, Curtis is 34. Long term Pickard makes sense to be the back up. So therefore Curtis gets trade, with possibly Leivo, and or Carrick, we get a 3rd paid RHD that is a lot better than Carrick. No clue from what team. But it is crystal clear that is what we need (RHD).

We don't need a stud defenseman by any means. A package of Carrick, Leivo, McElhinney should easily get you a solid vet upgrade on Carrick.

 

[jrgtml67]

Really to be honest we have some of the top scoring in the league upfront. Andersen is not just an OK goalie, he is easily our best since the CUJO days. Our defense top 2 pairs are fine. Rielly, should come out of his shell with a stay at home Hainsey, Gardiner is performing like he is our best defenseman (including last year), Zaits is solid, our problem is the next pair. The main problem is Carrick. He is really bad at turning it over, and leaves his partner out to dry a lot. Like last night Rosen played terrible, and it was made worse by Carrick. That is why I prefer Borgman. He makes better decisions, plus he gives us size, and he hits. Looked pretty damn good in his first game, like he had been in the NHL all along. We need that one more defenseman. A 3rd pair RHD, and I think we are set.

The question right now is; what do we do with 4 goalies in the AHL. Unless I forgot and Cal Heeter was released, then make that 3 goalies. Pickard is 24, Curtis is 34. So long term (and that is how Lou and crew keep saying their goal is "consistently contending.") Then in my mind it is very simple. You trade Curtis, Carrick throw in a Leivo or another decent wing prospect (we are loaded with them), and you get yourself a RHD that is no question a top 4 or at least a very good solid 5th spot. Carrick is a bubble guy, if he was LHD he wouldnt be on the team. Even Babcock said Carrick's handedness helped them make a decision there. Anyway it will sort itself out in the end. I am simply saying that we pretty much have all the pieces, just need some finishing touches.

 

[jrgtml67]

I didnt say stud anywhere in my post. I said and upgrade 3rd pair. A third pairing means 5,6, so where did you get a stud out of that?

I said exactly what you did. A decent upgrade on Carrick, therefore a 3rd pairing RHD.

 

[Pookie]

I mean look at it like this.

I was on the montreal board today and read a topic "Should you build around a goalie".

With each passing day analytics and progressive thinking are coming into the game, We are learning just how important possession is. Sure you can have less of the puck some games and still win but if you ran that simulation 1 million times the team that has the puck more would come out ahead.

So if the object is gaining and controlling the puck shouldnt you be looking to build as amazing of a team possible in front of your goalie so he can basically just chill with no worries? By signing a goalie to that type of contract in a indirect way your almost admitting your team in front of him isnt good enough and he needs to save the day. Montreal is making some questionable decisions but I really believe having a goalie that makes that much money isnt optimal and certainly not how I'd build a team.

So posesssing the puck is super important. Lets take out the goalie because he cant go and get the puck. You now have 12 F and 6 D. Maybe prioritizing the most volumed position and making it super strong is a very effective way of potentially dominating possession. If your forwards are soooo fast and skilled they will have the puck WAY more then the opponent and you dont have to have a star blueline or goalie.

Not saying you can just stick any stiff in goal or your blueline can be horrendous but in a way I kind of like how our strength is up front. Much rather have that then a team with a good goalie, good D but no gamebreakers up front.

Sports are always changing in hows they're played. Basketball with the 3's, Baseball with the acceptence of the strikeout for the HR. Maybe the game of hockey will shift from "build from the net out" to build up an amazing forward core that is always in posession of the puck.

You put a lot of thought into that and I respect that.

Let me ask you this, hockey is unique in that it assesses penalties by altering the kind of game that is played. You take a person off. Sometimes 2.

In PK situations, possession is virtually impossible. Here, stopping goals is the focus. You pay to stop goals.

Possession is never 100%. A dominant game might see 40 mins for you and 20 for you opponent. But with just 5 PPs for your opponent, up to 50% of their time with the puck will be spent with a distinct man advantage and shooting onslaught.

Add to it the number of 1 goal games, particularly in the playoffs and I don't see how a team can overlook the importance of a top goalie... which may soon be defined as someone huge who can fill the net.

You can't have the puck forever and when you lose it, you need to keep it out of your net.

 

[weems]

You put a lot of thought into that and I respect that.

Let me ask you this, hockey is unique in that it assesses penalties by altering the kind of game that is played. You take a person off. Sometimes 2.

In PK situations, possession is virtually impossible. Here, stopping goals is the focus. You pay to stop goals.

Possession is never 100%. A dominant game might see 40 mins for you and 20 for you opponent. But with just 5 PPs for your opponent, up to 50% of their time with the puck will be spent with a distinct man advantage and shooting onslaught.

Add to it the number of 1 goal games, particularly in the playoffs and I don't see how a team can overlook the importance of a top goalie... which may soon be defined as someone huge who can fill the net.

You can't have the puck forever and when you lose it, you need to keep it out of your net.

Like I said you cant have a total stiff in goal and a downright terrible D.
You obviously need a goalie who can make big saves and a blueline that can skate and complete pass's but I'm just not sure you have to be elite in these two areas to contend.
I actually like how the Pens are constructed (Super strong F, middle pack D and good goalie). We are tracking in the same direction but maybe Anderson isnt as good as Murray.
I guess I'm speaking to the folks who make it sound like we need a scorched earth remodel of the D or the aquisition of a star D. I think we're maybe 1 really solid D away from being able to put together a formidable unit and that shouldnt be all that hard to find really. This team is always going to go as far as our star forwards and its depth take us. I dont think we're as far away as some people think.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Just curious why Lundqvist is allowed to use Blue tape on the top of his goal stick yet Andersen had his game interrupted the other night by the refs? Double standard?