TV: Netflix Squid Game

[Shareefruck]

Just about to start Episode 6, but I wanted to share my suspicion that the old man is the mastermind behind the Games, and isn't really dead...

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but there are a few things that could be obvious during a re-watch such as him walking fearlessly in the direction of the guns during the first game, his bed not being pushed over during the riot (I'm not still not sure how he got up there though), and then acting as though he had dementia during the marble game...

Plus, we never saw him get shot, but a few minutes earlier in the show they showed the young Asian girl getting her head opened, and while they didn't show the Indian dude getting killed, they're making a point of showing his corpse in the opening scene of the following to confirm his death to the viewers...

The marble game is episode 6 and the opening death confirmation scene is 7, btw. Guessing you meant a later episode?

 

[Perennial]

The marble game is episode 6 and the opening death confirmation scene is 7, btw. Guessing you meant a later episode?

That could be it...

 

[Perennial]

I may've brought this up already, but I'm guessing that it'll be kind of like Westworld. The first season was very enjoyable because of the wonder, mystery, simple premise and acting talent (Anthony Hopkins). The second season didn't have so much of that because we already knew how the park operated, we'd learned the backstory, the premise became more complicated to continue the story and there was less Hopkins and no equal replacement. Similarly, with Squid Game, we now know how the game operates and why, the plot will likely be more complicated and it'll be hard to find a comparable new cast, as you noted. It may still be good television, just not as satisfying as Season 1, like Westworld Season 2. Of course, that's just my speculation, but I'm going to keep my expectations low and, if it surpasses them, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, then I won't be greatly disappointed.

Since you brought up Westworld...

I thoroughly enjoyed Season One... and the surprise twist at the end with Ed Harris being the older version of the other character in the show, that was unexpected...

For Season Two I made it about 5 minutes into the first episode before realizing that I didn't give a shit about any of it anymore, turned it off, and never gave it a second thought

 

[Perennial]

Just finished Squid Game...

Props to me for calling the old man, but I imagine quite a few other viewers had the same suspicions

I'm surprised the cop never resurfaced (slight pun), but perhaps if there's a Season Two, we'll find out his brother rescued him from the water and he's alive and well on the island...

As for the finale itself, honestly, it was a bit of a disappointment in that peaked too early, and then felt like the last half of the episode was almost entirely dedicate to the main character moping around with his sad puppy dog face... it was not entertaining in the slightest

He went full Jesse Pinkman... never go full Pinkman

Also, what's he upset about? Like the old man reminded him, he chose to return to the game... he needs to suck it up, and accept the consequences of his choices

And the red hair was an odd, and ridiculous choice... not sure what that was supposed to represent, but it was lost on me


What exactly is his plan for revenge anyway? Seems like he really didn't think things through before abandoning his plan to, you know, go be with his daughter...

You'd think after going through such a traumatic experience, he'd be desperate to spend time with her, but, nope!


Overall, I found the season very entertaining... some of the characters were a bit too cartoonish, but I think that's to be expected in an Asian production (I'm basing that entirely on the few clips of Most Extreme Elimination Challenge)

I'll give it 41,200,000,000 out of 46,000,000,000

 

[chicagoskycam]

Just finished Squid Game...

Props to me for calling the old man, but I imagine quite a few other viewers had the same suspicions

I'm surprised the cop never resurfaced (slight pun), but perhaps if there's a Season Two, we'll find out his brother rescued him from the water and he's alive and well on the island...

As for the finale itself, honestly, it was a bit of a disappointment in that peaked too early, and then felt like the last half of the episode was almost entirely dedicate to the main character moping around with his sad puppy dog face... it was not entertaining in the slightest

Also, what's he upset about? Like the old man reminded him, he chose to return to the game... he needs to suck it up, and accept the consequences of his choices

If I had to guess he's upset about everything he went through, the death and finally coming to the realization that money does not fix all your problems. His daughter seems to be in a pretty good situation and might be better off without him.

 

[Shareefruck]

Speaking of cartoonish, one thing that seems like it could be an unpopular opinion (the consensus seems to be that she's just obnoxious comic relief) is that I think that Han Mi-nyeo is one of the more interesting/meaty characters, and one of the better ones along with Sang Woo and Sae Byeok, while Gi-Hun (sorta), Ali, and Deok-su seem like they're just serviceable tropes designed purely to be rooted for/against (the cop being the worst of the main characters, barely having any notable qualities at all). Il Nam's hard to have an opinion on-- he's a really memorable presence, but instead of the reveal making the character more interesting/having more layers, it kind of just undermines it in an unsatisfying way. I'm also pretty impressed by how Ji-Yeong's role was to just come out of nowhere to knock it out of the park for a single big scene. There's not even that much to the character, with no time to develop it, but it really works.

Han Mi-nyeo's motives/mentality is kind of fascinating-- like this weird mix of desperate self-preservation/need for acceptance and validation/need to come across as alpha to badly hide her weakness (which doesn't seem to fool anyone besides herself), that's simultaneously confusing/purposefully contradictory yet convincing (and overcoming her heightened survival instincts by seemingly giving up those motives entirely and learning to not value her life at all is kind of interesting). You start to get the feeling that she was probably just lying through her teeth in her first scene about her "child", too.

Sang Woo best character, IMO-- You feel his anguish the strongest in episode 2 because the performance is so good, he goes through this show with the most realistic/understandable mentality (that I bet most of us could fall into under the same circumstance) and is branded the villain for it (with all this shame/superiority stuff mixed into it), and then his final moment deceptively comes across as redemption/a change of heart (especially through the lens of a generic TV show), even though no, not at all, it's completely consistent with his decisions/mentality up to that point-- Gi-Hun just accidentally check-mated his motives/logic by doing something stupid (him dying/losing accomplishes his own selfish goals more than both of them surviving does).

If I had to guess he's upset about everything he went through, the death and finally coming to the realization that money does not fix all your problems. His daughter seems to be in a pretty good situation and might be better off without him.

Ironically, in his case, money probably would have solved all his problems. Had he swallowed his pride and just took the stepfather's money and admitted his mother to the hospital before abandoning her for the games, then he'd be in a pretty good situation. I definitely felt like the ending came across as pretty unconvincing.

 

[Perennial]

If I had to guess he's upset about everything he went through, the death and finally coming to the realization that money does not fix all your problems. His daughter seems to be in a pretty good situation and might be better off without him.

Ironically, in his case, money probably would have solved all his problems. Had he swallowed his pride and just took the stepfather's money and admitted his mother to the hospital before abandoning her for the games, then he'd be in a pretty good situation. I definitely felt like the ending came across as pretty unconvincing.

Again, he chose to go back into the game... I just think it's uninspired writing to have him mope around the way he did...

Also, wanting to give up the money during the game to spare his childhood friend just minutes after he was trying to kill him... nope! Again, lazy writing... like the writer had the character to do something that the writer wanted him to do, not something that felt authentic to the character's motives

I compared him to to Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad... a lot of fans weren't happy with his turn in Breaking Bad... suddenly getting all depressed, giving away his money, turning on Walt... I don't think many viewers felt his actions were understandable and relatable


We don't know how much money was offered to him by the stepfather, so there may have been enough there to pay for his mother's treatment, but he still owed the gangstas a substantial amount of coin...

 

[Perennial]

The main guy from Squid Game and Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad have a lot of similarities...

Both are broke losers making poor decisions when we're first introduced to them

Both are given an opportunity to earn life-changing money by an older man who's terminally ill

Both lose people close to them in their pursuit of financial riches

Both end up resenting the money and wanting to kill the older man responsible

What else am I missing?


Oh, and both series had cops who were snooping around their brother's criminal activities, and it wound up getting them killed...

 

[Shareefruck]

We don't know how much money was offered to him by the stepfather, so there may have been enough there to pay for his mother's treatment, but he still owed the gangstas a substantial amount of coin...

I'm saying that he could have taken the money to admit his mother to the hospital to ensure her safety AS he goes back to play the games so that he can repay the gangsters (which I think he had a full month for or something, right?).

His pride basically cost her life.

 

[Perennial]

I'm saying that he could have taken the money to admit his mother to the hospital to ensure her safety AS he goes back to play the games so that he can repay the gangsters (which I think he had a full month for or something, right?).

Gotcha

 

[glovesave_35]

Again, he chose to go back into the game... I just think it's uninspired writing to have him mope around the way he did...

Also, wanting to give up the money during the game to spare his childhood friend just minutes after he was trying to kill him... nope! Again, lazy writing... like the writer had the character to do something that the writer wanted him to do, not something that felt authentic to the character's motives

I compared him to to Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad... a lot of fans weren't happy with his turn in Breaking Bad... suddenly getting all depressed, giving away his money, turning on Walt... I don't think many viewers felt his actions were understandable and relatable


We don't know how much money was offered to him by the stepfather, so there may have been enough there to pay for his mother's treatment, but he still owed the gangstas a substantial amount of coin...

I can assure you that there was nothing remotely close to the amount necessary to pay off the mafia guys. That was money for his mother plus a tip to f*** off.

 

[glovesave_35]

I'm saying that he could have taken the money to admit his mother to the hospital to ensure her safety AS he goes back to play the games so that he can repay the gangsters (which I think he had a full month for or something, right?).

His pride basically cost her life.

It wasn't just pride. He is a degenerate gambler and shitty father, but he still loved his daughter and wanted to be part of her life.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Had he swallowed his pride and just took the stepfather's money and admitted his mother to the hospital before abandoning her for the games, then he'd be in a pretty good situation. I definitely felt like the ending came across as pretty unconvincing.

That money came with the caveat of never seeing his daughter again. So broke and his daughter is gone for good - how is that a pretty good situation?

 

[Shareefruck]

It wasn't just pride. He is a degenerate gambler and shitty father, but he still loved his daughter and wanted to be part of her life.

That money came with the caveat of never seeing his daughter again. So broke and his daughter is gone for good - how is that a pretty good situation?

First, it's an obnoxiously dick move to offer it under that condition in the first place and it would never be binding-- the circumstances would change once you turn your life around and pay it back anyways-- the whole thing would just end up being reconsidered/fought over as if the money was never given to him in the first place
Second, as you said yourself, the daughter would be better off without him, and even when he comes back, he has priorities over her. So on some level, there's an "accept it for the sake of her happiness" angle to it.
Third, if it's between your daughter being out of your life for good but ultimately happy and your mother dying (basically as a direct result of your incompetence), you'd have to be a really selfish person to chose the former (and as mentioned above, that isn't even really the choice to begin with-- you can potentially fight to have your cake and eat it too).
Fourth, again, he would not be broke AND his daughter gone for good, because I'm saying that he should go to the games as part 2 of that plan. He'd be rich, his mother would be alive, he'd be able to pay back the money to the stepfather, and he'd have to uncomfortably weasel his way back into his daughter's life against the stepfather's wishes (which was the case before he took the money anyways), while genuinely presenting himself as someone that would actually be good for her instead. That's pretty good.

Really, the only thing that's at stake is whether or not he's willing to back out on his word and be on even worse terms with the stepfather by doing that, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't worth much, to be honest, and just boils down to pride.

Worst case scenario, if he dies in the games, the mother is alive and his daughter happy, which is a better situation, and if he wins the game but fails to weasel his way back into his daughter's life, his mother would be in a good spot, his daughter would be in a good spot, and he'd just have to accept it and be happy for her, which is also a better situation.

 

[glovesave_35]

First, it's an obnoxiously dick move to offer it under that condition in the first place and it would never be binding-- the circumstances would change once you turn your life around and pay it back anyways-- the whole thing would just end up being reconsidered/fought over as if the money was never given to him in the first place
Second, as you said yourself, the daughter would be better off without him, and even when he comes back, he has priorities over her. So on some level, there's an "accept it for the sake of her happiness" angle to it.
Third, if it's between your daughter being out of your life for good but ultimately happy and your mother dying (basically as a direct result of your incompetence), you'd have to be a really selfish person to chose the former (and as mentioned above, that isn't even really the choice to begin with-- you can potentially fight to have your cake and eat it too).
Fourth, again, he would not be broke AND his daughter gone for good, because I'm saying that he should go to the games as part 2 of that plan. He'd be rich, his mother would be alive, he'd be able to pay back the money to the stepfather, and he'd have to uncomfortably weasel his way back into his daughter's life against the stepfather's wishes (which was the case before he took the money anyways), while genuinely presenting himself as someone that would actually be good for her instead. That's pretty good.

Really, the only thing that's at stake is whether or not he's willing to back out on his word and be on even worse terms with the stepfather by doing that, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't worth much, to be honest, and just boils down to pride.

Worst case scenario, if he dies in the games, the mother is alive and his daughter happy, which is a better situation, and if he wins the game but fails to weasel his way back into his daughter's life, his mother would be in a good spot, his daughter would be in a good spot, and he'd just have to accept it and be happy for her, which is also a better situation.

Two things.

First, his ex-wife amd daughter were moving abroad. They absolutely could cut ties with him completely if they wanted.

Second, and forgive me if I'm off here. Much of your post sounds like someone who has never held their own child. Even flawed people can have a love so intense for their child that actions and motivations can't be explained entirely logically. I can't judge him for not wanting to see his daughter no matter what.

 

[Shareefruck]

Two things.

First, his ex-wife amd daughter were moving abroad. They absolutely could cut ties with him completely if they wanted.

Second, and forgive me if I'm off here. Much of your post sounds like someone who has never held their own child. Even flawed people can have a love so intense for their child that actions and motivations can't be explained entirely logically. I can't judge him for not wanting to see his daughter no matter what.

My point is that the degree that they would want to cut ties with him (and the power they would have to do so) is barely different between scenario A, where he refuses the money (and punches him btw) and follows them to the US as a changed man, and scenario B, where he takes the money but turns around and repays it/goes back on his word and follows them to the US, as a changed man. If his ex-wife truly hated him to his core and WANTED to cut ties with him even in the event that he's no longer a deadbeat, he probably wouldn't have been able to reconnect with her so easily like it seemed like he was geared to during the actual ending (As you say, they have all the power either way). From the looks of it, his dead-beat-ness was the main problem that removed him from consideration (they'd given up on him and merely viewed his circumstances as an unnecessary burden/complication, it didn't seem like they outright hated him), and moving was a practical decision that didn't seem to have all that much to do with him.

If anything, I would expect that the ACTUAL potential dealbreaker that might cause them to take it personally and refuse him being in the daughter's life no matter what would not be the promise, but the fact that he decked the stepfather when he refused the money.

Also, I'm not saying that it isn't an understandable/empathetic decision that I could see a father making, but it is still pretty selfish, and doesn't justify causing your mother to die at basically your own hands, in my view (especially considering the above-- the assumption that the ultimatum isn't likely to be meaningfully enforced to begin with-- it's a dumb pinky promise in the grand scheme of actual adult considerations about what would be best).

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Just finished episode 2. I'm avoiding reading comments here in case of inadvertent spoilers. Really loving it so far though. Can't wait to get back to it this evening.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It's dissonant as hell in thought (and not in a particularly good way, Il-Nam being the most egregious example) but it was entertaining and in general, I find The Most Dangerous Game concept shows a lot more entertaining than other pop offerings. Alice in Borderland is a better version of Squid Game, though. I don't know that the sheer concept make these stories inherently flawed but it's hard to imagine one able to sustain without holes.

 

[Osprey]

Speaking of Alice in Borderland, I just started watching that, since it's on Netflix, as well. I'm only a few episodes in, but I see the similarity. The premise and structure of strangers playing one deadly game per episode is very much the same. It's just Japanese instead of Korean, takes place in a deserted city instead of on a private island and has a younger cast of mostly 20-somethings (who, ironically, act more mature than anyone in Squid Game).

 

[Shareefruck]

Consider my curiosity is piqued. I don't have an issue with the premise, I've just never seen it executed that well.

Is Alice in Borderland just comparatively better, or is it something that you guys would actively recommend as legitimately good?

 

[Osprey]

Is Alice in Borderland just comparatively better, or is it something that you guys would actively recommend as legitimately good?

I don't know how to answer that. I only know that I just finished episode 3 (wow) and those who liked Squid Game should check it out. For those who didn't, maybe the differences will, er, make a difference. I'd say that Alice is more dramatic, serious and dark. It also seems slightly smarter (ex. fewer dumb decisions and logical issues). The characters also act more naturally (i.e. no exaggerated acting) and less immaturely. If those address issues that you had with Squid Game, then you might like Alice better, but it's still a battle royale-derived show, so I wouldn't set expectations too high.

It was @bobholly39 who originally recommended it way back on page 4: TV: - Netflix Squid Game

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Consider my curiosity is piqued. I don't have an issue with the premise, I've just never seen it executed that well.

Is Alice in Borderland just comparatively better, or is it something that you guys would actively recommend as legitimately good?

Just comparatively better. They both have a couple of things over the other (for example, I think Squid Game may have set designs that are bit more impressive) but like Osprey said, I think the writing is certainly better in Alice in Borderland. And there's really no comparison to make regarding the acting and subsequent melodrama. I think the latter leaves the other behind in the dust and is far less cartoonish. At any rate, I find both shows fun and worth a watch (especially since the the commitment is so small) but I'm definitely looking forward to the AiB second season far more than the other's, in which I'll only try out of curiosity. Though I will say that Squid Game pulls you in immediately. The other takes a tiny bit more time to get going in.

 

[Perennial]

Is there an English dubbed version of Alice In Borderland?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Is there an English dubbed version of Alice In Borderland?

I don't know and I hope not.

 

[Osprey]

Is Alice in Borderland just comparatively better, or is it something that you guys would actively recommend as legitimately good?

I thought about this question a little more and if you happen to be asking if I would recommend it to someone who didn't like Squid Game, no, I wouldn't. I don't know why you'd want to watch it unless you like the battle royale premise, and if you do, I imagine that you'd like Squid Game, at least to an extent. If, on the other hand, you liked Squid Game but think that it could've been better, then that's where I'd recommend that you try Alice because of the differences that I and Spring noted.

Is there an English dubbed version of Alice In Borderland?

Yes. I haven't been listening to it, so I can't comment on it how good it is, but it's available.