Neal trade.. thoughts now?

[Ogrezilla]

I am confused.

If a player you received in a trade is doing great for you, do you have to feel that the player traded for him sucks (or at least more than the new guy) to still enjoy the new guy doing well?

its pretty much seemed that way since it happened, ya.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I am confused.

If a player you received in a trade is doing great for you, do you have to feel that the player traded for him sucks (or at least more than the new guy) to still enjoy the new guy doing well?

Yes.

That's internet and sports 101 unless it's a player a lot of people have an emotional attachment to. I think some people starting to sour on him before the trade is also contributing.

I do miss that shot and the games he was really on for.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yes.

That's internet and sports 101 unless it's a player a lot of people have an emotional attachment to. I think some people starting to sour on him before the trade is also contributing.

I do miss that shot and the games he was really on for.

Yeah I do not get that one trick pony charge. Yes it is true, but to a degree you could say that about Ovechkin as well. Not as blatant, but yeah. Who the **** cares if that one trick is a great one?

 

[Michael8771*]

I am confused.

If a player you received in a trade is doing great for you, do you have to feel that the player traded for him sucks (or at least more than the new guy) to still enjoy the new guy doing well?

MICHAEL Doesn't hate Horny, it's not his fault he got traded here. And lately he's played exceptionally well. Got to give him credit. But when you trade a first team all star who piled up points almost at will, you really don't win such a trade. JR made two bad trades, his first one and his last one. The ones in between meet my approval.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah I do not get that one trick pony charge. Yes it is true, but to a degree you could say that about Ovechkin as well. Not as blatant, but yeah. Who the **** cares if that one trick is a great one?

Well, obviously a multidimensional player would be better but, yeah, when the trick is good enough it's worth a lot. I think it's more about what's going on around said trick and if it's ultimately worth it for the team. It probably wasn't worth it for the Pens compared to Hornqvist + Spaling given their problems with depth, effort, not throwing hissy fits, their formula not working and other assorted problems. Maybe they could have fixed some of his effort problems but Sutter has gone complacent, Kunitz is being defiantly lazy and Adams has literally fought Malkin. So I wouldn't say that the new coaching staff is a guaranteed or even likely fix like I've seen thrown around.

I think the frustrating thing with Neal was that he'd sometimes show that he was more than that one trick and then he'd go back to his usual when the team needed him to be more. Him trying to make the Olympic team compared to after he didn't hurt. He was also here for the playoff collapses 2011-2014 (aka the really ugly ones where things started to sink in) and I think people may have formed a connection between the two, warranted or not. Couple that with a penchant for doing stupid **** and he makes an easy target.

That shot is glorious and he'll probably be a 'what if?' for idk how long going forward, though.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Well, obviously a multidimensional player would be better but, yeah, when the trick is good enough it's worth a lot. I think it's more about what's going on around said trick and if it's ultimately worth it for the team. It probably wasn't worth it for the Pens compared to Hornqvist + Spaling given their problems with depth, effort, not throwing hissy fits, their formula not working and other assorted problems. Maybe they could have fixed some of his effort problems but Sutter has gone complacent, Kunitz is being defiantly lazy and Adams has literally fought Malkin. So I wouldn't say that the new coaching staff is a guaranteed or even likely fix like I've seen thrown around.

I think the frustrating thing with Neal was that he'd sometimes show that he was more than that one trick and then he'd go back to his usual when the team needed him to be more. Him trying to make the Olympic team compared to after he didn't hurt. He was also here for the playoff collapses 2011-2014 (aka the really ugly ones where things started to sink in) and I think people may have formed a connection between the two, warranted or not. Couple that with a penchant for doing stupid **** and he makes an easy target.

That shot is glorious and he'll probably be a 'what if?' for idk how long going forward, though.

In hindsight the trade worked out perfectly for us. We needed a guy like Hornqvist more. Goal scoring was never an issue for this team and it is not now. What happens when a player is NOT scoring is more important. If Neal is not scoring, much like Ovechkin, he brings pretty little else to the table. Not useless, but nothing special either. Hornqvist bring elements outside scoring that this team has needed for years. That he is scoring as well is just the cherry on top. I would have made the trade in hindsight though if Hornqvist was scoring at a lower clip.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

In hindsight the trade worked out perfectly for us. We needed a guy like Hornqvist more. Goal scoring was never an issue for this team and it is not now. What happens when a player is NOT scoring is more important. If Neal is not scoring, much like Ovechkin, he brings pretty little else to the table. Not useless, but nothing special either. Hornqvist bring elements outside scoring that this team has needed for years. That he is scoring as well is just the cherry on top. I would have made the trade in hindsight though if Hornqvist was scoring at a lower clip.

Yeah, it's worked out well. Who knows what will happen in the playoffs but so far it looks like they've done a good job building the team better. I still wish we could have also gotten a 2014 2nd but that's probably me being greedy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am confused.

If a player you received in a trade is doing great for you, do you have to feel that the player traded for him sucks (or at least more than the new guy) to still enjoy the new guy doing well?

In fairness, I was one of the first ones to start calling out Neal for being lazy and a floater two years ago. So my criticisms of him aren't related to him being traded and suddenly disliking the guy.

It's just sad people can't digest the game beyond the flash of Neal's quick trigger. The endless excuses for how lazy he played are nauseating.

I have no idea how Hornqvist will play for this team in the playoffs, but I know I won't have to question his heart and desire when it's all said and done.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Now tell us all about Hornqvist's glorious playoff resume. You say 11 goals in 38 games is a bad thing when you're comparing him to a guy who has 3 in 24.

And when you bring out the "Hornqvist hasn't played with an elite center yet", be sure to note that Neal's only unproductive playoff runs came when he was playing with Staal, Letestu, and Sutter...and Hornqvist was outproduced by several Nashville players during their runs. Hell, Joel Ward scored 7 goals in a 12 game playoff run on the same Nashville team Hornqvist played on.

PH may tear it up for us in the playoffs, but his track record so far sure as hell isn't any kind of advantage over Neal.

All we know so far are that James Neal has been a failure here in the post season, and that PH hasn't had his chance yet.

But the goals PH scores tend to keep going in when the going gets tough, ala this past weekend. And the ones Neal scores, well, they don't.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

MICHAEL Doesn't hate Horny, it's not his fault he got traded here. And lately he's played exceptionally well. Got to give him credit. But when you trade a first team all star who piled up points almost at will, you really don't win such a trade. JR made two bad trades, his first one and his last one. The ones in between meet my approval.

I'd add the Winnik deal under 'bad value trades', though they have only been slightly bad value, with the exception of the SD trade, which was horrendous value wise.

 

[CrosbytoKessel]

If PH played the whole season with Sid i think he'd get around 35 goals.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

All we know so far are that James Neal has been a failure here in the post season, and that PH hasn't had his chance yet.

But the goals PH scores tend to keep going in when the going gets tough, ala this past weekend. And the ones Neal scores, well, they don't.

Well, "we" don't know that because I certainly don't subscribe to that idea, as I've outlined in detail many times. Your context and mine don't line up.

But any way you slice it, PH's style hasn't translated to any kind of production in the playoffs yet, so simply assuming that he's going to be an improvement over Neal there is premature.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

If Crosby wasn't such a non factor in the post season, so much so that Malkin was pulled away from Neal, maybe this is a different discussion. Malkin going to play with Crosby hindered everyone's ability to contribute. It's a shame many don't see this.

Crosby such a non factor in the post season? Sid played with Gibbons and Kunitz last year in the playoffs..tough to produce with those idiots. Crosby's playofff track record is phenomenal...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Crosby such a non factor in the post season? Sid played with Gibbons and Kunitz last year in the playoffs..tough to produce with those idiots. Crosby's playofff track record is phenomenal...

he played an awful lot with Geno last postseason. He was not good.

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

he played an awful lot with Geno last postseason. He was not good.

I remember him playing primarily with Gibbons and Kunitz in the Columbus season and then going to Malkin after they blew that 3-1 series lead. Maybe I'm remembering it all wrong though..

Regardless, I'll assume he was talking about Sid's post season play last season and not as a whole for his career.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I remember him playing primarily with Gibbons and Kunitz in the Columbus season and then going to Malkin after they blew that 3-1 series lead. Maybe I'm remembering it all wrong though..

Regardless, I'll assume he was talking about Sid's post season play last season and not as a whole for his career.

Oh ya its just last year. And the Boston series I guess.

 

[Michael8771*]

Neal, the real deal, we could have used you tonight. Miss you buddy.

 

[plaidchuck]

So yeah I guess the amount of cross checks horny takes will translate into some kind of moral victory for the team even if he doesn't score. Horns is a good player, and I get the idea behind the trade but at the end of the day it was a lateral move at best. This team goes nowhere if malkin or crosby don't produce. Having neal or horns doesn't change that.

 

[Michael8771*]

So yeah I guess the amount of cross checks horny takes will translate into some kind of moral victory for the team even if he doesn't score. Horns is a good player, and I get the idea behind the trade but at the end of the day it was a lateral move at best. This team goes nowhere if malkin or crosby don't produce. Having neal or horns doesn't change that.

What would be ideal is to Have Neal and Horny. The best of both worlds. And I'm sure some of you know more about that, much more than you'd care to admit. Hey now!

 

[plaidchuck]

Should have just seen how neal played under mj and then make a mid season move if required. Trading at the deadline just seemed like some lame posturing by the organization.

 

[plaidchuck]

Excuse me, meant to say trading at the draft

 

[IcedCapp]

Sid's possession numbers were fantastic last year, he just couldn't shoot the puck.

That said, I don't know why otherwise intelligent individuals continue to respond to Michael's comments on Sid. You know what he's doing at this point, why continue?

My issue with the Neal trade are the same now as they were when it happened.

1) You are still going to need a player like Neal (now they have a bunch of greasy players and could sure use a sniper. You need a Patric Hornqvist, but I'd like him in conjunction with a James Neal)

2) The revisionist history by all involved on Neal and who and what he was

3) the immediate devaluing of James Neal by the PR MACHINE

 

[plaidchuck]

Yeah it just seems to me the argument that "he gives effort even when not scoring!" seems reminiscent of bylsma and his "goals that should have been" bs. If horny was brought in to be a 3rd wheel in the top six then they overpaid.

 

[gopens66]

Sid's possession numbers were fantastic last year, he just couldn't shoot the puck.

That said, I don't know why otherwise intelligent individuals continue to respond to Michael's comments on Sid. You know what he's doing at this point, why continue?

My issue with the Neal trade are the same now as they were when it happened.

1) You are still going to need a player like Neal (now they have a bunch of greasy players and could sure use a sniper. You need a Patric Hornqvist, but I'd like him in conjunction with a James Neal)

2) The revisionist history by all involved on Neal and who and what he was

3) the immediate devaluing of James Neal by the PR MACHINE

This- Every time Hornqvist scores Steigerwald has to slam Neal. I really, really can't stand Steigerwald. People talked about someone giving Rossi a wedgie over the summer, I would pay cash money to see this happen to Steigerwald.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Sid's possession numbers were fantastic last year, he just couldn't shoot the puck.

That said, I don't know why otherwise intelligent individuals continue to respond to Michael's comments on Sid. You know what he's doing at this point, why continue?

My issue with the Neal trade are the same now as they were when it happened.

1) You are still going to need a player like Neal (now they have a bunch of greasy players and could sure use a sniper. You need a Patric Hornqvist, but I'd like him in conjunction with a James Neal)

2) The revisionist history by all involved on Neal and who and what he was

3) the immediate devaluing of James Neal by the PR MACHINE

I agree with this. Neal is a sniper, and this team needs one of those in the top 6.