Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[BobMarleyNYR]

Boyle-Moore-Dorsett vs
Fedotenko-Boyle-Prust?

vs. the famous HBO line, Hollweg, Betts and Ortmeyer.

 

[nyr2k2]

Stionk at the World Championships, eh? I guess some other than misinformed Rangers fans thought he was pretty decent as a rookie.

 

[Vitto79]

Stionk at the World Championships, eh? I guess some other than misinformed Rangers fans thought he was pretty decent as a rookie.

Thank goodness Atleast he looks good

Shattenkirk , Pionk , Smith, Kampfer is likely the RD for next year

Drafting a Dman at 9 isn’t crazy . Definitely taking Atleast 1 of 3 firsts

 

[haohmaru]

Stionk at the World Championships, eh? I guess some other than misinformed Rangers fans thought he was pretty decent as a rookie.

<------ "misinformed Rangers fan" - and proud of it.

 

[kovazub94]

Thank goodness Atleast he looks good

Shattenkirk , Pionk , Smith, Kampfer is likely the RD for next year

Drafting a Dman at 9 isn’t crazy . Definitely taking Atleast 1 of 3 firsts

DeAngelo? If Smith regains his form he'd be in the mix but I would not circle him in specifically at RD. If no other moves (unlikely) it would be Skjei-Shattenkirk, Smith-Pionk, Staal-ADA, Gilmour-Kampfer.

Back on topic - very happy for Pionk making the USA roster. Great experience for him to finish what should be evaluated as a very good season!

 

[True Blue]

DeAngelo? If Smith regains his form he'd be in the mix but I would not circle him in specifically at RD. If no other moves (unlikely) it would be Skjei-Shattenkirk, Smith-Pionk, Staal-ADA, Gilmour-Kampfer.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that is the likely top-6 on opening nihgt.

 

[Kovalev27]

skjei DeAngelo/Pionk
staal Shattenkirk
Smith Pionk/DeAngelo
Gilmour Kampfer

think we'll carry 8 next season to start and 13 forwards.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

had to bump...it's been a minute since a Ranger defenseman has done something like that.

 

[nyr2k2]

Pionk really just needs to add some strength. The only real complaint I have is that he's easy to bump off the puck and has a difficult time winning corner battles or pinning a guy to the boards.

Sometimes he plays a little out of control, but I can live with that. It's his game--energy, quick movement, quick passes, etc. And he's feisty. I also suspect the out of control stuff will settle down as he matures as a professional. But man, he really does show some impressive skill, as seen above.

 

[NYR Viper]

Both he and ADA's ability to slide along the blue line and take a hard, accurate snap/wrist shot to get pucks to the net is so valuable to create second and third chances around the net. It should lead to points for both if the Ranger forwards can get there

 

[East Coast Bias]

Did some real good things with the puck last night.

I want to see him for an extended period of time away from Staal still.

Pionk & Staal are an absolutely brutal possession pairing. They just get shelled.

Pionk away from Staal's numbers are pretty comparable to the overall team's numbers.

 

[Ola]

I think Pionk needs some coaching, hopefully Brown is a guy who can optimize his game.

I love Pionk’s poise, his ability to stay with a forward, his mobility. I think he is — very — good in some areas.

But I think that he also takes too much time with the puck. He needs to pick his spots better. Many teams are able to get out of their own end in a controlled way by making short relief passers in there own end, to open up a lane, and then move the puck up ice. Pionk is good at beating his guy, getting away from the forecheck, and make the play himself. That is great — when there are no options — but it takes a bit more time and gives a defense time to set up than a short pass to the center who can get it up ice instantly. In the situations were Pionk is forced to deke the same Forechecker five times in the corner the best possible outcome is still to head up ice against a collected D.

Think Pionk needs to move the area where he uses those abilities mainly a bit up ice. Challenge the forwards more inside the blueline. Try to execute a bit better with longer passes up ice than skating. The puck out of danger.

I think his CF% would improve of it. This is one of those situations were I think Pionk’s CF% is valuable to look at since if you didn’t have that to go by it would be hard to gauge the magnitude of how much the things he needs to improve impacts the game when he is on the ice. Don’t think it’s mega big, but yet significant.

 

[silverfish]

Me, seeing this thread bumped this morning: "don't post in there, silverfish, he had 3As last night, let people enjoy it"

HOWEVER

Pionk away from Staal's numbers are pretty comparable to the overall team's numbers.

I don't think this is true. Last two years combined, Pionk's relCF% gets worse away from Staal and Staal's gets much better away from Pionk. This isn't really foolproof science, and obviously there are other factors, including a small sample, but thus far, in the sample we do have, Pionk is a drag on all of his teammates.

Does this matter when he's posting 3 assists? Probably not. Is he going to post 3 assists every game? Probably not. Is he going to be a drag on his teammates almost every game? So far, yes.

 

[eco's bones]

He gets bottled up in his own end now and again and when that happens his lack of size and strength work against him. His gap control is pretty good and he tries to get on puck carriers really fast when he can. He's an aggressive defender and that helps him more than not on the penalty kill. I can see him in a couple years being more stable in just about everything. He's still a developing player who needs to work out certain issues in his game. It would help if he had a regular partner to build chemistry with--one that has more size and strength--or some of the attributes that he doesn't.

Other things I like about him is he skates well and he's got an engine. IMO you could put him on the ice 30 minutes a night and not really see his play drop. That's a great quality to have. He seems to thrive when given more ice time and more responsibility. I've the idea he wants to be a difference maker. A great college free agent pickup for us.

Going forward it would help him immensely to put on a little more weight and get stronger.

 

[Irishguy42]

If you're putting Pionk on the ice for 30 minutes, you are definite intentionally tanking.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Me, seeing this thread bumped this morning: "don't post in there, silverfish, he had 3As last night, let people enjoy it"

HOWEVER



I don't think this is true. Last two years combined, Pionk's relCF% gets worse away from Staal and Staal's gets much better away from Pionk. This isn't really foolproof science, and obviously there are other factors, including a small sample, but thus far, in the sample we do have, Pionk is a drag on all of his teammates.

Does this matter when he's posting 3 assists? Probably not. Is he going to post 3 assists every game? Probably not. Is he going to be a drag on his teammates almost every game? So far, yes.

Maybe I read the numbers wrong of Natural Stat Trick but I could have sworn this season they're like 33 CF% together and he's 45-46% without him. Did I read it backwards? It's possible.

I'm skeptical overall, but I'm trying to give it a chance and let all factors play out.

 

[silverfish]

Maybe I read the numbers wrong of Natural Stat Trick but I could have sworn this season they're like 33 CF% together and he's 45-46% without him. Did I read it backwards? It's possible.

I'm skeptical overall, but I'm trying to give it a chance and let all factors play out.

You need to use relCF% because you're victim to team noise. He could be 33% with Staal but the team was operating at 37% and he could be 46% without him but the team could be operating at 60%.

Either way, with or without yous with this sample size probably do more harm than good. Too many other factors at play than just with or without.

 

[East Coast Bias]

You need to use relCF% because you're victim to team noise. He could be 33% with Staal but the team was operating at 37% and he could be 46% without him but the team could be operating at 60%.

Either way, with or without yous with this sample size probably do more harm than good. Too many other factors at play than just with or without.

I hear you, but if we're going to sit here and talk about how awful Staal is, I'm going to account for the fact that Pionk is usually paired with him.

Again, my overall view is that he's a guy that has bled shots and chances, and been saved by a great on ice SV% that isn't sustainable. But I'd like to see a more diverse sample before definitively closing that case.

 

[silverfish]

I hear you, but if we're going to sit here and talk about how awful Staal is, I'm going to account for the fact that Pionk is usually paired with him.

Again, my overall view is that he's a guy that has bled shots and chances, and been saved by a great on ice SV% that isn't sustainable. But I'd like to see a more diverse sample before definitively closing that case.

Wait, are you a Pionk truther, too? Welcome! We meet every other Tuesday.

 

[Rempe73]

It’s strange. He has a lot of strengths: passing, vision, skating, endurance, deking, agility, awareness, gap control, positioning, stick checking, aggressiveness...but it’s a mystery why that doesn’t translate to good advanced stats. Lack of strength is a part of it, for sure. And he’s not very good at exiting the zone, which could be improved with making more breakout passes. Then again, he’s good at avoiding the checker and good at breakout passes. Does it have something to do with going against other team’s top players? Maybe he’s just not good at sustained offense. I love the guy so much, but I want him to improve his advanced stats.

 

[cwede]

...He has a lot of strengths: passing, vision, skating, endurance, deking, agility, awareness, gap control, positioning, stick checking, aggressiveness...but it’s a mystery why that doesn’t translate to good advanced stats. ... I love the guy so much, but I want him to improve his advanced stats.

IMHO this is backwards thinking,
stats, even ADVANCED stats, are just part of the whole picture, a reflection of some of the reality, but should never be an end unto themselves.
the widespread impulse to over-emphasize some stats is a trend that i hope will fade after a while, its a dis-service to the players and the game

i don't have a stats report in front of me,
but i bet if you reviewed any rankings,
there will be players of whom you would say he actually isn't as impactful as his numbers indicate,
and other guys who you'd say have more positive impact than the numbers would indicate

any stat is just one tool or metric among many

and besides Pionk is only 30 games into his career as an NHL D-man, his overall impact and contribution, by all measures, are likely to improve

 

[Ola]

It’s strange. He has a lot of strengths: passing, vision, skating, endurance, deking, agility, awareness, gap control, positioning, stick checking, aggressiveness...but it’s a mystery why that doesn’t translate to good advanced stats. Lack of strength is a part of it, for sure. And he’s not very good at exiting the zone, which could be improved with making more breakout passes. Then again, he’s good at avoiding the checker and good at breakout passes. Does it have something to do with going against other team’s top players? Maybe he’s just not good at sustained offense. I love the guy so much, but I want him to improve his advanced stats.

Remember that he regularly gets the toughest minutes or among the toughest minutes. Many Ds on the verge to being NHLers would have a disasterous night if they played all night against AO.

He is his own biggest enemy to get love from the people that only look at stats. By being as good 1 on 1 as he is he gets a lot tougher assignments than many other Ds on the verge (like Gilmour and the likes).

But it’s not the whole story, I covered what he can do better above.

Many here would never even consider that AV, Quinn, Blashill or someone like that even knows 10% of what they do about hockey — but there is a reason for why these guys not only play Pionk but play him a ton.

With that said, Pionk got areas he can work on.

 

[ThirdEye]

Let's please not forget that he only just turned 23 and has a whopping 33 games under his belt at the NHL level. I think some people were given false hope by his super hot start in the league and now have unreasonable expectations for him. Let him find his niche

If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out, but let's give his some darn time please. Especially since we're not competing for anything this season, or next.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Let's please not forget that he only just turned 23 and has a whopping 33 games under his belt at the NHL level. I think some people were given false hope by his super hot start in the league and now have unreasonable expectations for him. Let him find his niche

If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out, but let's give his some darn time please. Especially since we're not competing for anything this season, or next.

+1. He's at just over .5 PPG so far - I feel that right now, that's a very important piece to any of our up-and-comers' games. With his offense already coming along, the rest of his game will round out as he matures and gets more used to the NHL. There's all the resources at his fingertips. He's found himself in a good spot career-wise, along with being on this team at the right time where the organization is willing to see what we have in our lesser experienced players without giving them a one-and-done leash.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I disagree that he's been good at passing. I'll give him positioning and ability to read the play, but he's made some horrific plays trying to get the puck out of his own zone and has sometimes tried to do too much by skating it out of dangers and causing turnovers. Then again, we've also seen him not be able to make these easy outlets but be able to spring Lettieri on a 105 foot hail mary through the neutral zone.

I still think he can find a spot as a solid 2nd/3rd pairing tweener, but as of right now, I think he's being played well over his head. I wouldn't hate if he were sent down to Hartford for a bit since he's waiver-eligible.