Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[Machinehead]

You think all those teams cut him loose because he wasn't flashy? That's probably more bizarre then the Stralman comparison itself. It's pretty obvious how you judge players and their defensive capability it's clearly though just a certain stat sheet and a single lens alone.

Because this HF where instead of using stats as evidence, we use the opinions of dynasties like the 2009 Leafs and the 2011 Blue Jackets.

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead , you’re off base in your evaluation of Pionk. Where did you get this 4/5 times he is not making the right play? Cmon, Don’t think so (maybe you have a particular game in mind but even then I don’t think its right).

P.S. Out of all rookie defensemen this season Pionk has done better on a defensive side by a mile. If this is how you view Pionk I’m afraid to ask what you think about the rest (though it is hard to see a regular NHLer out of any of the rest, sans ADA)

I don't know what games you're watching if you don't see that Pionk is lost in his own zone. This is why the eye test is garbage - everyone sees what they want to see.

 

[Irishguy42]

Side note: love the not playoffs avatar @Machinehead

 

[kovazub94]

I don't know what games you're watching if you don't see that Pionk is lost in his own zone. This is why the eye test is garbage - everyone sees what they want to see.

Really interested to hear: would your stats tell you if Pionk's issues were due to his individual struggles on the defensive end as a player or due to AV's system?

What I see is everyone struggling to keep up, and Pionk doesn't negatively standout like, for instance, Gilmour, O'Hara etc do.

 

[silverfish]

Really interested to hear: would your stats tell you if Pionk's issues were due to his individual struggles on the defensive end as a player or due to AV's system?

What I see is everyone struggling to keep up, and Pionk doesn't negatively standout like, for instance, Gilmour, O'Hara etc do.

His numbers relative to team are discouraging.

It's possible that he's just in over his head as a 1RD, and his #fancystats will chill out if he's used correctly next year.

 

[kovazub94]

His numbers relative to team are discouraging.

It's possible that he's just in over his head as a 1RD, and his #fancystats will chill out if he's used correctly next year.

Yup, the bigger role the more he's exposed in a faulty system. And the additional context is that he's not expected to be that when eventually things fall into places.

 

[aufheben]

Yeah there is a large area between "abhorrent defensively" and "not a #1D"...

 

[Rempe73]

Yup, the bigger role the more he's exposed in a faulty system. And the additional context is that he's not expected to be that when eventually things fall into places.

Yes, and he gets many defensive zone starts. And on top of those starts, he is usually put out against other team's top lines.

 

[silverfish]

Yeah there is a large area between "abhorrent defensively" and "not a #1D"...

Well, interesting enough, it's the lack of offense he's bringing that's really crushing his advanced metrics. With Pionk on the ice, the Rangers take 13.27 less shot attempts per 60 than with him on the ice. That's fourth worst in the league among d-men who have appeared in 15 games. Santini, Y. Weber, Bartkowski. [corsica.hockey].

Again, totally possible that as his usage settles, so do his advanced stats. How much you think it is going to have an impact is the debate. One of which I'm happy to leave out of this thread but if you want to really hate me, you can pop in the Advanced Stats Thread

One thing I will say, though, is that people tend to forget that as your competition gets lighter, so does the strength of your teammates. Just a thought.

Okay, bye!

 

[Harbour Dog]

Silverfish: "I'm gonna stay out of the Pionk thread. There hasn't been many positives this year, and I'll at least let people have this one until next season when we can get a better look at where he's at as a player."

Also Silverfish:

 

[Machinehead]

Silverfish: "I'm gonna stay out of the Pionk thread. There hasn't been many positives this year, and I'll at least let people have this one until next season when we can get a better look at where he's at as a player."

Also Silverfish:

JT Miller Part 2: Revenge of the Nerds

 

[silverfish]

Silverfish: "I'm gonna stay out of the Pionk thread. There hasn't been many positives this year, and I'll at least let people have this one until next season when we can get a better look at where he's at as a player."

Also Silverfish:

Man, you know my true feelings and how PG I've kept it in here. Don't tempt me............

 

[Harbour Dog]

Man, you know my true feelings and how PG I've kept it in here. Don't tempt me............

 

[True Blue]

Well, interesting enough, it's the lack of offense he's bringing that's really crushing his advanced metrics.

That is the problem with trying to solely judge him by the metrics. The lack of offense he's bringing. That means that only offensive defensemen would look good utilizing advanced metrics. The more defensive ones look poor. The kid is not an offensive defenseman. So what? By and large, he has looked just fine.

Speaking of looking, what was the last top defenseman that has looked good in this vaunted system?

 

[True Blue]

Yes, and he gets many defensive zone starts. And on top of those starts, he is usually put out against other team's top lines.

Perhaps he is not ready for such a role?

 

[silverfish]

That is the problem with trying to solely judge him by the metrics. The lack of offense he's bringing. That means that only offensive defensemen would look good utilizing advanced metrics. The more defensive ones look poor. The kid is not an offensive defenseman. So what? By and large, he has looked just fine.

Speaking of looking, what was the last top defenseman that has looked good in this vaunted system?

Mmm. I think I'd disagree with this, but that would take this thread OT. Happy to discuss in the advanced stats thread if you'd like. Otherwise, all good!

 

[The Mouth]

Not really. Most people didn't realize how good he was here until after he was gone.

Not me . A lot of other people knew how good he was but he couldn't be kept because were going to be paying three defenseman 6 million dollars per year going forward. He was a salary cap casualty and at the time we couldn't give him term he sought.

 

[Thirty One]

Not me

Well I'm sorry we can't all be Eddie frickin' Gieck.

 

[Machinehead]

Not me . A lot of other people knew how good he was but he couldn't be kept because were going to be paying three defenseman 6 million dollars per year going forward. He was a salary cap casualty and at the time we couldn't give him term he sought.

He wasn't a cap casualty, he was a Rangers stupidity causality.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He wasn't a cap casualty, he was a Rangers stupidity causality.

It was inevitable the moment Girardi signed his extension. They were never going to sign Stralman since they needed a PMD.

 

[Machinehead]

It was inevitable the moment Girardi signed his extension. They were never going to sign Stralman since they needed a PMD.

Nobody told them extend Girardi. And it was stupid.

The cap isn't an excuse when you ruin your own cap.

 

[Miamipuck]

I think Pionk's numbers will improve quite a bit when his usage is corrected. That said, I don't think he's anything like Stralman. They're 2 totally different players.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Ya know who Pionk reminds me of? James Wisniewski. Both have BIG shots, offensive ability, play bigger than their size, and aren’t particularly good defensively.

 

[Machinehead]

Ya know who Pionk reminds me of? James Wisniewski. Both have BIG shots, offensive ability, play bigger than their size, and aren’t particularly good defensively.

If he becomes Wisniewski, sign me up.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Ya know who Pionk reminds me of? James Wisniewski. Both have BIG shots, offensive ability, play bigger than their size, and aren’t particularly good defensively.

Wiz was quicker in his prime, but he took the dumbest penalties routinely. Good comparison tho imo