Proposal: Nate Schmidt, Nick Holden, Ryan Carpenter, 1st round pick to Toronto

[Leaf19]

This thread is hilarious

 

[Stephen]

Easier to find guys like Schmidt? The guy who's been a top pairing player for Vegas?

You found him for free in the expansion draft 13 months ago. He's a good defenseman, but how do we know he doesn't turn into a pumpkin like the rest of Vegas might? If we go with the nuclear option and move Nylander for a defenseman, we'd probably look for someone with more pedigree, youth and upside.

 

[GKG18]

Is that a real question? I guess Connor McDavid was worth less than Erik Haula until McDavid played an NHL game. Come on, guys. Potential factors significantly into valuation. This is basic stuff. And Nylander is already at a comparable level to Haula.

AGH! Did I really have to clarify FA or trade acquisitions? It's implied that the Entry Draft is for players who have never skated in the NHL and by definition are nothing but potential.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Yeah who cares about excelling when playing the top minutes on a cup finalist, what really matters is being a good Ontario boy.

Many players excelled on Vegas last year...let’s see if they can retain that success in Year 2.

 

[Mach85]

AGH! Did I really have to clarify FA or trade acquisitions? It's implied that the Entry Draft is for players who have never skated in the NHL and by definition are nothing but potential.

Sure, but that doesn't change the value that potential has. We could substitute McDavid with Steven Stamkos after his lacklustre rookie season if you prefer (or Joe Thornton when he scored like 9 points...the examples are really endless). You can't just ignore player age and ceiling when putting a value on a player, that's 101 stuff.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Nylander is part of the Holy Trinity. You cannot put him into any trade proposals. That's the rules.

Now that we have Tavares, we need a new term. We can't say Big-3, or holy trinity anymore. Any suggestions?

 

[indigobuffalo]

You found him for free in the expansion draft 13 months ago. He's a good defenseman, but how do we know he doesn't turn into a pumpkin like the rest of Vegas might? If we go with the nuclear option and move Nylander for a defenseman, we'd probably look for someone with more pedigree, youth and upside.

Ironic because Schmidt was the guy the Leafs tried so hard to acquire from WSH in the deal that sent them Consolation-Prize Carrick.

It’s not like Toronto wasn’t already after him and this kid magically turned into something overnight without anyone knowing.

Washington had to decide between Kuznetsov and Schmidt...

 

[indigobuffalo]

Nylander is part of the Holy Trinity. You cannot put him into any trade proposals. That's the rules.

Now that we have Tavares, we need a new term. We can't say Big-3, or holy trinity anymore. Any suggestions?

Well I don’t want to start a schism here but the holy trinity is considered by some sects of Catholicism to actually be just a unity or duality.

So really, if you want to believe that trinity means four then you’re allowed to because religion doesn’t believe words matter either.

 

[FerrisRox]

Many. And using this line of thinking is just flawed. I guess Montreal wouldn't trade it's #1C for Nylander?

Montreal doesn't have a number one center, so the point is moot.

 

[Stephen]

Ironic because Schmidt was the guy the Leafs tried so hard to acquire from WSH in the deal that sent them Consolation-Prize Carrick.

It’s not like Toronto wasn’t already after him and this kid magically turned into something overnight without anyone knowing.

Washington had to decide between Kuznetsov and Schmidt...

No they didn't, that's a silly statement.

I mean, by your logic, the fact that the Leafs were once interested in anyone means they should mean they ought to trade William Nylander for them. Correct?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Nylander is part of the Holy Trinity. You cannot put him into any trade proposals. That's the rules.

Now that we have Tavares, we need a new term. We can't say Big-3, or holy trinity anymore. Any suggestions?

The Four Horsemen is the obvious one. However, four is extremely unlucky in Japanese culture for what it’s worth. The word for four in Japanese is almost identical to their word for death.

*Deeeeeeeaaaaaattttthhhhhh* (end spooky)

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Montreal doesn't have a number one center, so the point is moot.

But they have someone playing the position. Isn't that all it takes?

 

[Scott Stevens]

Nylander is part of the Holy Trinity. You cannot put him into any trade proposals. That's the rules.

Now that we have Tavares, we need a new term. We can't say Big-3, or holy trinity anymore. Any suggestions?

I suggest you stick with big 3 now that there is a worthy third. Tavares Marner matthews.

 

[FerrisRox]

But they have someone playing the position. Isn't that all it takes?

No.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No.

Great. Then Schmidt isn't a number 1 just because he's filling that role

 

[FerrisRox]

Great. Then Schmidt isn't a number 1 just because he's filling that role

If you say so.

Your track record makes it perfectly clear how seriously your opinions should be taken.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If you say so.

Your track record makes it perfectly clear how seriously your opinions should be taken.

If I say so? you literally just applied the exact same logic

 

[FerrisRox]

If I say so? you literally just applied the exact same logic

I said that just because someone is playing on the first line doesn't make them a first line center, because in the case of Montreal, Drouin wasn't playing *like* a first line center, he was producing well below any and all of his peers in that regard that were playing a first line role on other teams in the league.

If you don't think that Nate Schmidt played excellent hockey last year for the Vegas Knights and produced the quality of play expected and needed out of a top pairing blueliner on one of the leagues better defences and a team that went to the Stanley Cup Final, I don't know what to tell you other than that I completely disagree with you.

I thought he was excellent all year long and was an absolute revelation to me because I had no idea he was capable of doing that.

I don't see, in any way, how that's the same thing as what Drouin did in Montreal which was completely underwhelm, under produce and under perform.

If you truly don't see the difference here, there's really nothing I can say to help you.

 

[T_Cage]

I'd prob do Schmidt for nylander... I'd even go as far as Nylander+3rd if vgk pushed

But I'd rather have hainsey than holden, and leivo than Carpenter. I dunno if the difference is a 1st, but its something

If the 1st and the 3rd were taken out of the OP, would that work for Vegas?

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Horrible for the Leafs. I’ve never even heard of Schmidt before stop trying to steal our best forwards

 

[Critical13]

Name	Age	GP	CF rel%	A1/60	FF%	PPG	Off Zone starts %
Schmidt	27	76	-1.4	0.6	-1.8	0.47	47
Rielly	24	76	2.0	0.8	2.3	0.68	45.2
Gardiner	28	82	-0.7	1.1	-0.7	0.63	47.8
Dermott	21	37	6.4	1.2	7.0	0.35	51.3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018 stats, 5v5

I took the time to make the above chart for a few reasons:

• To show that Nate Schmidt is not an upgrade on our current D core
• To show the hypocrisy in saying Schmidt is a 1st pairing defenceman, but denying the value of Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott (added him for reference...he's a big part of the future, whether HFBoards acknowledges it or now)
• To show the kind of value we would be getting in dealing our young star.

So looking at that chart, tell me - How excited would Jets fans be about dealing Scheifele in his age 21 season for Gardiner or Rielly or Dermott? How excited would Nashville had been dealing Arvidsson or Forsberg? I use these players because at age 21, their production matched or was worse than Nylanders.

That's the risk you are asking Toronto to take. It's not only unblanaced, but those claiming Toronto is making out like bandits are completely unreasonable IMO.

EDIT: For the record, this isn't an attempt at bashing Schmidt. Only at adding context.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Name	Age	GP	CF rel%	A1/60	FF%	PPG	Off Zone starts %
Schmidt	27	76	-1.4	0.6	-1.8	0.47	47
Rielly	24	76	2.0	0.8	2.3	0.68	45.2
Gardiner	28	82	-0.7	1.1	-0.7	0.63	47.8
Dermott	21	37	6.4	1.2	7.0	0.35	51.3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018 stats, 5v5

I took the time to make the above chart for a few reasons:

• To show that Nate Schmidt is not an upgrade on our current D core
• To show the hypocrisy in saying Schmidt is a 1st pairing defenceman, but denying the value of Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott (added him for reference...he's a big part of the future, whether HFBoards acknowledges it or now)
• To show the kind of value we would be getting in dealing our young star.

So looking at that chart, tell me - How excited would Jets fans be about dealing Scheifele in his age 21 season for Gardiner or Rielly or Dermott? How excited would Nashville had been dealing Arvidsson or Forsberg? I use these players because at age 21, their production matched or was worse than Nylanders.

That's the risk you are asking Toronto to take. It's not only unblanaced, but those claiming Toronto is making out like bandits are completely unreasonable IMO.

EDIT: For the record, this isn't an attempt at bashing Schmidt. Only at adding context.

Comepeltely this. I didn’t even know Schmidt played for Vegas until now... lol. No reason to give up a star forward for a 3 or 4 defensman

 

[phlocky]

Nylander is part of the Holy Trinity. You cannot put him into any trade proposals. That's the rules.

Now that we have Tavares, we need a new term. We can't say Big-3, or holy trinity anymore. Any suggestions?

How about "The four Horsemen"?

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'd prob do Schmidt for nylander... I'd even go as far as Nylander+3rd if vgk pushed

You are aware that you are giving up Willy for one year of Schmidt, right?

That would be among the worst decisions in many years.

 

[PensandCaps]

Montreal doesn't have a number one center, so the point is moot.

That's exactly my point.....

Vegas doesn't have a #1 D