Nashville Stars, proposed MLB expansion team discussion

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Sports' started by mymerlincat, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Paramount Movie Network will also still have episodic scripted series too. So it's not completely focused on plain movies, though episodes will likely be movie-length.
     
  2. KevFu Registered User

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    Pretty much! I don’t know how to break this point I’ve been making for 5 to 10 years: THE LEAGUES. ARE TOO BIG. TO PLAY EVERYONE.

    Well, I mean, you get everyone the “games per coast” they want. But this is the thing that is important here, that I don’t think people who came to sports via not baseball get (and I mean zero disrespect, and this is probably why I go round and round with Canadian fans on sports administration topics).

    MLB has gone 100 years with AL and NL hardly ever playing… AND EVERYONE IS OKAY WITH IT!

    This is why MLB has the least problems with “we don’t play everyone” and NHL fans lose their mind when I say H/A with everyone is dumb.

    The Mets/Mariners have played 5 series ever. The Giants and Indians went from 1901 to 2004 without ever playing a single regular season game…. And NO ONE GAVE A DAMN! Everyone was cool with it!

    Baseball is in a unique position compared to NHL and NBA, because they’ve always had separation and trying to force more is dumb. The Southern/Pacific/NL/AL plan can work at this point in time because AL and NL hardly ever play, so…

    - 15 teams are getting the same thing as before, with less trips West
    - 8 Western teams are getting just an insane benefit of additional start times in their time zone, so they’re on board.
    - 2 Texas teams glad to be out of the AL West and totally on board with something that’s weird, but not in the Pacific time zone.
    - 4 fanbases that are among the newest in MLB and can’t play the “But, we’ve been in the NL for 100 years!”

    And that leaves only 3 teams who could raise objections, making it the greasiest of tracks, the path of least resistance.
     
  3. KevFu Registered User

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    That was a lot of numbers to try and absorb after the amount of whiskey I’ve consumed tonight.

    The main reason I’ve been hammering on the four-game series thing is because I saw what leaked as “MLB’s plan” for expansion and realignment, and it was MF-ING TERRIBLE.

    And the reporter raved about the reason behind it being “travel for the players!” That was total joke. They claimed “Travel was better!” by having RADICAL REALIGNMENT:

    North: MIN, DET, CLE, TOR, Montreal, BOS, NYY, NYM
    East: CIN, PIT, PHI, BAL, WAS, ATL, TB, MIA
    Midwest: MIL, CHC, CWS, STL, KC, HOU, TEX, COL
    West: ARZ, SD, LAD, LAA, SF, OAK, SEA, Portland

    156 games, 12 vs division, one 3-game series vs other 24 teams.

    Which is totally dumb because it ignores the ADVANTAGE than MLB has over NHL/NBA (that fans literally don’t care that they rarely play 1/3 of the league ever) and claims “travel is better because DIVISIONS are tighter, but replaces 1 trip vs "Conference" teams on the opposite coasts with 0.5 trips vs AL AND NL teams on the opposite coast (aka, no change!).

    Their plan has MORE TOTAL SERIES of West vs East, despite reducing games by 6. The "better travel!" thing is a total JOKE/LIE and I proved it with math and facts.

    I think that plan RUINS BASEBALL. So my four-league plan gives 3 leagues EXACTLY what they want, and the Southern League gets major benefits to half the teams, and minor benefits to KC, ATL, WAS. It also retains the history of AL and NL separation for 120+ years. It’s the least amount of teams disliking it, and if you have to buy those few off to make them go for it, do it.

    Keep in mind that Atlanta was in the NL West with HOU, LA, SD, SF and CIN for 23 freaking years.
    Kansas City was in the AL West from 1969-1993.
    Texas has been in the AL West their entire existence.
    Houston was forced into the AL West against their will.
    Miami and Tampa are two of the newest 4 teams.
    Washington is the newest team in their market in MLB right now.
    Nashville is an expansion team with no say in the matter.


    Is it perfect? Of course not. But it’s KANTIAN: It is the best plan because it’s going to piss off the least number of people and make the greatest number of people happy.
     
  4. MNNumbers Registered User

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    Whiskey, eh? Tough night for the Islanders?

    What I would like to say about the schedule matrix is:
    I agree with your principles. There is no need for everyone in the MLB to play everyone else. Where I disagree comes from this idea:
    If I were a Pirates fan in 1960, it's true that I would never see the AL ever. That would mean that about 50% of MLB was outside of my experience.
    What you are suggesting is closer to 2/3 or 3/4 insulation. And, that's too much for me.

    I could live easily with 50% of the teams never playing my favorite team. But, I don't want to do that with 75% of my team's schedule being against the same 7 teams, when there are 24 other teams that we COULD play.

    So, let me try this again. I really don’t care about the alignment. The reality is going to be that there is a Pacific Division of some kind (Call it the PL if you want), and the other teams will be divided into 3 groups. As we know….if both Oakland and Portland are included in the final list of 32 teams, this is a difficult situation, because we would get: Sea, Port, SF, Oak, LA, Ana, SD + both AZ and COL, and that’s 9 teams. However, the fact that AZ is MTZ during baseball season serves to mitigate that some way, because you can put them with Texas, Houston, St Louis…. Or something…. Whatever…. I’m just going to assume we have our 32 teams.

    The play schedule can work with PRIMARILY 4 game series. If you make the rule that TV wants Fri, Sat and Sun to never be off days, and that you might want a Monday night game, then it turns out that 4 game series fall into a pattern of: Fri – Mon, Wed – Sat, Sun – Wed, and repeat. This would have everyone off on Tuesday and Thursday, which is not ideal because it’s too many off days. So, you can mitigate it by occasionally skipping the off day on Tues, and then you end up simply skipping the off day 2 weeks in a row, and you come back to the same schedule. I’m going to work out some details on this, but I think it allows some 3 game sets within an 8-team group.

    If we allow some 3-game series within the League (Division), then we can have 14 games against rivals. That’s more balanced that your 16 game suggestion. So, with 14 games against rivals, we have about 60 games to play with. In fact, if we use 64 games out of division, we get exactly our 162 games back.

    So, 64 games out of division. Since that’s a multiple of 8, scheduling should be easy. There are LOTS of ways to work it out from there.

    I like 98 in, 64 out much better than 112/48. And, tbh, I might even like 84/72 better yet.
     
  5. Voight #winning

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    I wonder if this still has some weight without Dombrowski. I only say that because he is a member of the OBC and has serious connections / is a notable baseball name.
     
  6. MNNumbers Registered User

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    Fill me in. How was he connected to the Stars campaign, and what happened?
     
  7. Voight #winning

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    IIRC the group hired him as the face / someone to run it. Basically, hes THE guy with the connections and probably your best shot at getting a team / the MLB to listen to you. Joe Torre would be a great pick for that role but he wouldn't want to leave his cushy job at HQ.

    When going for expansion its key to have a widely respected, connected and knowledgeable guy. Dombrowki also has experience with expansion, given he was either the first or second Marlins GM.
     
  8. KevFu Registered User

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    Great night for the Islanders! Usually you can have a drink on every Islanders goal and not get buzzed. :naughty:

    I understand your point, but I don't think it's a big departure from what we have now based on the fact that Eastern teams and Western teams WANT to play each other less.

    The whole point of 4-game series was to actually minimize the travel and make things better for the players (I wonder if the NHLPA is going to say "We should do this two-game series thing ALL THE TIME because it's just better!)

    And once you give the West their own group of eight, then you have to play a number of games within that league that makes it worthwhile to put them together; otherwise you're just blowing up what we have for no reason.

    Let me crunch some numbers for you.
     
  9. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    The four-league alignment that has been proposed by several users in various forms would allow national TV partners that air games on weeknights to do the following in most weeks they carry games:

    First, a 7 PM game involving teams in the Eastern or Central Time Zones. In the first three weeks of interleague play where PCL teams are not involved, an interleague game would air in these slots. National TV games being played in the Central Time Zone would have a 6 PM local start.

    The 10 PM game, outside of weeks where PCL teams are involved in interleague play, would be a PCL game.

    The last three weeks of interleague play would provide the only opportunities for ET/CT teams to play in the late national game, if they are playing a road game against a PCL team. Conversely, during these weeks, PCL teams playing road interleague games could appear in the early national game.

    National TV games hosted by the Rockies would be an 8 PM local start.

    If the NHL's 2013 realignment is any indication, it is that time zones matter in non-NFL leagues (in the NFL, all games start at a certain time Eastern, since most games are played on Sunday afternoon).

    Here would be the weeknight assignments for each cable TV partner:
    Monday: Fox Sports 1 (ESPN and ESPN2 will be allowed to air additional games on many nights during the playoff race) - FS1 would also air games on some Saturdays
    Tuesday: TBS (this is actually going to happen)
    Wednesday: ESPN
    Thursday: MLB Network
    Friday: potentially Paramount Movie Network (produced by CBS) OR USA Network (produced by NBC) - I favor the former to acquire this slot; a fourth cable TV partner outside MLB Network would be required under my alignment, as each league would be assigned to one of four networks for the first two rounds of the playoffs on a rotating basis.

    Typically, games carried nationally on cable are blacked out on those networks in territories assigned to the participating teams, in favor of the broadcasts on each team's own television partner. For example, if a national TV game features the Red Sox, viewers in New England cannot see the broadcast on, say, TBS, in order to protect NESN.

    The new long-term TV contracts would renew relationships with every network that carried MLB games since the realignment, as well as add ABC as a partner. ABC would televise a national Sunday afternoon game after completing its NBA obligations in that slot. In contrast, Fox would continue to offer a selection of Saturday games on a regional basis (and even then, not on all Saturdays), with 2 teams from the same market being on Fox the same day only if they are playing each other (to avoid what happened with The Baseball Network in the 1990s). ABC would carry the World Series in odd years, and the All-Star Game in even years; the inverse is true for Fox.

    Games aired on ABC and Fox would be exclusive to those networks, since they are over-the-air networks.

    ABC's coverage would incorporate the theme used by ESPN in various iterations since 1990, as well as use its graphics, as they did when they aired some Wild Card series games in 2020. This is a result of the gradual integration of ESPN and ABC Sports following the acquisition of Capital Cities, which owned both networks, by Disney in 1996.
     
  10. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    If it is USA that becomes the 4th cable partner, I can see Al Michaels calling games, like he used to do for ABC (he now works for NBC).
     
  11. LadyStanley Registered User

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    Paywall. Interesting
     
  12. KevFu Registered User

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    Interesting read for sure, but the candidacy of Charlotte, Orlando, Vegas, Mexico City, etc are way, way, way behind Portland, Nashville and Montreal.
     
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  13. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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  14. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Also, with the abundance of DVRs in various forms, fans of a Mountain/Pacific team who live east of the Mountain Time Zone can record games of their favorite team that get selected for broadcast on national television, and watch it at a more comfortable time rather than having to disrupt sleep schedules.

    Likewise, fans of a ET/CT team living in the West could record such games to avoid disrupting work.
     
  15. AdmiralsFan24 Registered User

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    Sports are a live viewing event. Very few people DVR a whole game and watch it later.
     
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  16. oknazevad Registered User

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    Indeed, part of the reason that broadcast fees for sports have soared in the past decade or so is because they're seen as DVR-proof compared to other programming, so viewers can't skip commercials, making them valuable for advertisers.
     
  17. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    If I was a Dodgers fan living in NYC (an oxymoron these days given what happened over 60 years ago), I had a job, and a Wednesday night game at Dodger Stadium was on ESPN, I would DVR the game, knowing I have to get up at a certain time to get to work, and I would need as much sleep as I can get.

    I would watch the recorded game after I got home from work.
     
  18. Mightygoose Registered User

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    More along the lines of the expansion part of the thread.

    Montreal group still working on bringing MLB presence back to the city - TSN.ca

    Nothing really new. Just letting people know they're still around and working behind the scenes - just as MLB wants it.

    With no expansion process right now or in the near future along with the Rays locked in for 7 more seasons, there's no reason for them to make major headlines.
     
  19. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    I don't want the Rays to split their home games between Tampa Bay and Montreal.

    The Rays need to work out their stadium issues in Tampa Bay, and Montreal should have their own team full-time.

    Ideally, for a new Montreal ballpark, Olympic Stadium would be demolished in a way that would preserve the tower, and the tower gets incorporated into the new park, which obviously would need a retractable roof.
     
  20. HisIceness This is Hurricanes Hockey

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    Please let a city other than Charlotte have these teams, please.

    Montreal, Vegas, Nashville, Portland, hell give New Jersey a team, I don't care. I do not want one here.
     
  21. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Right now the focus should be Montreal and Nashville. The whole Mountain/Pacific area doesn't need another team now.
     
  22. BKIslandersFan ITS TIME TO GO!

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    lol why.
     
  23. HisIceness This is Hurricanes Hockey

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    Because I don't want my tax dollars going to fund yet another toy for a billionaire. I already know that Tepper is going to milk this city for every penny for a new NFL and MLS stadium, then throw on yet another baseball stadium after one was built not that long ago for the Knights.

    MLB would be a trainwreck here after the novelty wears off, it wouldn't be much better than Tampa.
     
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  24. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    By the time I want MLB to finally give Charlotte a team, I expect the current Knights stadium to be at least 30 years old (if expanding first in 2026 to 32 teams then again in 2040 to 40 teams under my realignment plan). If the 2040 expansion teams are awarded in 2036, the stadium will have passed the quarter-century old mark.
     
  25. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Furthermore, I've gravitated towards the Pacific Coast League dividing into divisions upon expanding to 10 teams as well:

    Mountain: Arizona, Colorado, Las Vegas*, Portland*, Seattle
    Pacific: LA Angels, LA Dodgers, Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco

    The Mountain would contain the PNW teams as well as the Mountain States teams in order for all CA teams to be together.

    21 games against each division opponent (4*21 = 84), 12 games against each team in the opposite division (5*12 = 60), 84+60 = 144
     

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