Nashville Stars, proposed MLB expansion team discussion

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Sports' started by mymerlincat, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Paramount Network is going to be renamed Paramount Movie Network

    Paramount Network Rebrands, Doubles Down on Movies and Minis - Variety
     
  2. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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  3. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Well, as part of my proposed realignment, Paramount Movie Network would become a broadcast partner of MLB, with games produced by CBS Sports.
     
  4. oknazevad Registered User

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    Unlikely.

    First off, there's little indication that ViacomCBS is interested in baseball. Secondly, the whole point of the rebranding is to pivot the cable channel to a specific type of programming, and live sports is not that programming.
     
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  5. oknazevad Registered User

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    Honestly, I can see the four-team divisions getting the most traction. Most teams understand that it's less radical than other options, which is what owners really want. The divisions become far more geographically compact, reducing travel, and even if there's a time zone difference it's only by one hour, not two or three. Which is why I think your NL central (north) and south are off. Switch Nashville and Pittsburgh, and you've got what they likely will be. Pittsburgh in the south makes zero sense in any alignment. They're either NL North (née Central) or NL East (with Washington going to the south, which seems unlikely.)

    The only other thing I could think of is throwing TB a bone and having them switch to the NL south with Nashville going to the AL south, which makes each a little more compact, and gives TB rivalry games against Miami and Atlanta.

    (Of course, if I had control of the Rays, I would flex my territorial right muscle to boot the Yankees out of Tampa and use that spot for my new ballpark. It's outright ridiculous that a rival can act like they own the largest city in your home market.)
     
  6. MNNumbers Registered User

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    The one difficulty with the proposed North Divisions in the 4 team arrangement is weather. I mean, we all know you can have playoff baseball in the north, because we've seen it. Perhaps most clearly recently with the Cubs/Cleveland series a few years ago. So, it's not for the playoffs that I bring that up, but for the sake of April....

    The possibility of early season snow outs has to be considered. It's not a mountain which cannot be climbed, but how to get around it is definitely a thing to think about.

    Oknazevad...
    Tell me more about this Yankees and Tampa thing...I'm in the dark.
     
  7. KevFu Registered User

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    I see the 4-division thing getting the most traction if Tampa can't get a stadium deal done and moves. Because then you don't need Colorado to switch leagues. Portland would take their spot in the AL West, Nashville takes the AL South/Central spot instead of Tampa.

    AL East - BOS, NYY, BAL, TOR
    AL Central - HOU, TEX, KC, NASH
    AL North - CWS, MIN, CLE, DET
    AL West - LAA, OAK, SEA, PORT

    NL East - PIT, CIN, ATL, MIA
    NL Central - STL, CHC, MIL, COL
    NL North - MON, NYM, PHI, WAS
    NL West - LAD, SD, SF, ARZ

    That doesn't look bad. However, that bold stuff... woo boy.
     
  8. KevFu Registered User

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    This is the problem I frequently have in convos on this board. People care more about how the division assignments LOOK than what they actually accomplish.

    The schedule that goes with a 4x4 play in each league is hardly different at all, which means travel is exactly the same as before, for the most part.

    Obviously, HOU/TEX get better travel, but that's pretty much it. You lose 2 trips to the opponents who left your division, gain one trip to the new team in the league and one interleague trip (likely against a different division).,

    So the AL East loses 2 trips to TB, gains a trip to PORT, and one trip to an NL Central/South/West team. How's that any better?

    Whereas the crazy bananas KevFu plan... 16 each vs 7 teams, 48 interleague games.

    That's 40 total four-game series, down from 54 total three/four-two-game series. So you're flying a max of 24 times a season instead a max of 42.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  9. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    WHY Portland, Oregon would be my question, Kev, considering what MLB has done the last 10-16 months contracting the affiliated clubs into 4 classifications.... and what do you propose happens to the existing franchise in Nashville
     
  10. KevFu Registered User

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    The three expansion candidates are Nashville, Montreal and Portland. This isn't like a "Why not San Antonio?" hypothetical thing like threads that run rampant on this site. This is "we can identify groups working to bring MLB to that city. " Those are the three groups who have it together and auditioning for teams. Like, ownership groups, ballpark renderings and land plots picked out, financing lined up to pull the trigger if MLB moves. Merch in some cases:

    History. Opportunity. Vision.
    Montreal Baseball Project
    Home | Portland Diamond Project

    This isn't me spitballing, this is like, actually what's happening.


    The existing team in Nashville is a Triple A team. They'd get a check for MLB moving into their territory and then it's up to them to decide if the want to compete with an MLB team and sell like zero tickets, or if they want to move. And it's practically 100% they'd leave, just like the Denver Zephyrs moved when the Rockies came in, and the Phoenix Firebirds moved when the D-Backs came in.
     
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  11. MNNumbers Registered User

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    I want to focus on one particular part of your post, Kev....
    What does the schedule look like if every series is 4 games? Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me you won't see teams in favor of scheduling which has multiple teams idle on a Fri night, or on Sat or Sunday, simply because those are the most advantageous days to fill a stadium.

    So, how does that aspect work?
     
  12. KevFu Registered User

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    PCL has been doing four-game series for a couple decades. It's not hard.
     
  13. MNNumbers Registered User

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    That's a dodge. Flesh it out for me. (Not being negative here, so please don't take it as argument. I'd just like to see how it works.)

    I've seen enough of your ideas here and concerning the NHL alignment and scheduling that I'm pretty sure you have a file somewhere with it somewhat worked out.
     
  14. tank44 Registered User

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    Also Portland left the AAA PCL a few years back when their stadium became 100% for soccer/football with the MLS Timbers. There isn't a PCL or any other team in the city because there isn't a stadium at present. The Hillsboro NWL A level team is a suburban team that somewhat satisfies baseball in the Portland market for now.

    I always hoped Portland would be a NL team so that the NW could have a AL & NL team but out west travel is the bigger issue and see why Seattle & Portland in the same division makes more sense.
     
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  15. KevFu Registered User

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    A) That's an outstanding edit, thank you.
    B) But you did nailed me on the dodge, because I don't have that at my finger tips and had to find a pocket schedule from a few years ago (they did adjust their model the last few years because they wanted to change the amount of games since the league is so spread out from Tacoma to Nashville).

    But I found a sample. It basically looks like "If your series ends on a Thursday-Saturday, you start another series. If it ends on Sunday-Wednesday, you might take an off-day."

    https://res-3.cloudinary.com/dostuf...to,w_800/v1432715137/event-poster-4032604.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  16. MNNumbers Registered User

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    I have an idea which is loosely based on Kev's posts for NHL realignment. It would look like this:

    I wonder if Nashville and Montreal isn’t the easiest alignment to do….(of course, if there are 3 potential cities, then they will get whichever 2 will be ready the fastest or are willing to pay the most).
    AL West: Seattle, Oakland, Anaheim, Colorado
    NL West: LA, Ariz, San Fran, San Diego
    AL Central: KC, Min, Chi, Mil
    NL Central: Dal, Hou, Chi, StL
    AL NEast: Tor, Det, NYY, Bos
    NL NEast: NYM, Mont, Pit, Phil
    AL East: Cle, Nash, TB, Bal
    NL East: Cin, Was, Mia, Atl
    These divisions have no time zone crossovers, except for the Colorado and Arizona situations. Arizona is really MTZ for baseball.

    Play Matrix:
    Within League:
    West v Central and East v NEast: 10 games = 40 (12 series) 8x3 + 4x4
    All other interdivision games: 3 games = 24 (8 series) 8x3
    Intraleague: Like divisions only: 10 games = 40 (12 series) 8x3 + 4x4
    Vs Division: 18 games = 54 games (18 series) 18x3
    42 3 games series, 8 4 game series.
    This would be a 25 week season (24 ½ with All Star break) with 17 off days built in.

    Basically, you have to cross the continent for only 4 series, which can be done as one long road trip. If you want to save travel costs, here it is...Fly to Detroit, play 3 games, Toronto is next, Cincy and Washington.

    Thoughts?
     
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  17. MNNumbers Registered User

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    Thanks. I'll have to think about it more. That schedule has only 5 off days, and the PA won't go for that, obviously...
     
  18. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    Paramount Movie Network would be used if CBS Sports wanted to pursue the cable rights to more high-profile sporting events than what are typically carried on CBS Sports Network.

    This would be because PMN is in more homes than CBSSN.

    If the NFL were to institute the reverse mirror to distribute additional Sunday afternoon games on CBS and Fox to local markets via cable channels, it would be PMN, and not CBSSN, that would be used for CBS' reverse mirrors because of being more widely available than CBSSN. Fox would use Fox Sports 1 for reverse mirrors; it has distribution more on par with ESPN.

    It's also similar to how TBS and TNT (and to a lesser extent, TruTV and USA) carry live sports despite not being sports-oriented channels.
     
  19. oknazevad Registered User

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    I would agree with you if they were not specifically renaming it to focus on movies specifically, both from the Paramount vault and new TV movies. Heck, they're shuffling Lip Synch Battle, one of their biggest hits, off to another Viacom network because it doesn't fit the new profile of the channel. Sports isn't going on there.

    And again, there's been zero indication of CBS trying to pick up baseball at all. None.
     
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  20. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

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    CBSSN isn't going anywhere, Z, just as the rumor of NBCSN going away was refuted
     
  21. oknazevad Registered User

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    Short version is that the Yankees have their spring training facility, and an affiliate, right in the middle of Tampa. It's across the street from the Buccaneers' stadium. In other words, a prime location for a new Rays ballpark. Plus it means they have to share the core city of their home market with a rival, not just in spring training (when the Rays are a bit south in Port Charlotte) but also during the regular season as the Yankees have one of their affiliates, the Tampa Tarpons, playing there. And while minor league teams in major league markets aren't unheard of, they're usually Indy teams or affiliates of that major league team, and play in the suburbs, not an affiliate of a rival playing right in the middle of the largest city in the market. It's just another way the Rays are given a lower chance to succeed. A fairer situation would force the Yankees to have their facility elsewhere while the Rays use Tampa year-round. (The Phillies and Blue Jays complexes are also in the market, but well into the northern suburbs, not right in the middle of it.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  22. KevFu Registered User

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    Also only has 144 games because the PCL doesn't play in September. It was really just to show you how it's doable.
     
  23. KevFu Registered User

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    The big issue is that "you have to cross the continent for only 4 series" is only true for the EASTERN TEAMS.

    For the Central, you've got: six road series on the West Coast (travel) and 20 road games vs the West (bad TV times).
    The NL teams are currently playing five road series (travel) and 17/18 road games in the West.
    The AL teams are currently playing three road series and 10/11 games in the West.

    So that's just a compromise between "what we have now schedule wise" with 4-team divisions; and the 8-team division idea, when the 8-team division idea is a non-starter.

    The reason I've come to the Pacific/Southern/National/American model is because:
    - a Pacific Group of 8 makes 10 teams ridiculously happy: The eight of them together, and HOU/TEX which want to get out.
    - it mixes the Central/ETZ teams together across three leagues, which the Central wants.
    - The Eastern teams would go from 5 or 3 series vs the West, to exactly 2 every year.

    That makes teams like Atlanta more likely to go along with a Southern League a lot easier since they get 10 games at 8 pm vs HOU/TEX instead of 10 games at 9 pm/10 pm vs LAD/SD/SF/COL/ARZ.

    And of course, that leaves veto power to say no in the hands of only five teams who could say no (ATL, WAS, KC, TB, MIA)
     
  24. MNNumbers Registered User

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    But, Kev, you are skewing your analysis because of how you choose your play matrix (in fact, that single thing is the trick of the Southern/Pacific League idea - not the alignment). Here's the relevant part of your post:

    Option IV: the radical LOOKING Pacific/Southern option.

    PL: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SD, ARZ, SEA, COL
    SL: TB, MIA, ATL, WAS, TEX, HOU, KC, Nashville
    NL: MIL, CHC, STL, CIN, PIT, PHI, NYM, Montreal
    AL: MIN, CWS, DET, CLE, TOR, BOS, NYY, BAL

    Schedule: 16 vs Division (112), 1 series vs half the others (48)


    I'll tell you why I don't like this.....The play matrix is too insulated for my tastes. You don't have "Major League Baseball" anymore. You have "Four independent leagues under one umbrella". Now, some people might like that. I don't.

    If I wanted, I could take my alignment, and do the same thing to it:
    To wit:
    2 leagues: AL and NL
    4 divisions each
    Schedule:
    20 games v your own division = 60
    15 games v the division in the other league with the same name = 60.
    That makes 120.
    There are 12 other teams in your league. You play then each 3 games.
    Bam. 156 games.
    And, the West Coast play will be similar to what you are advocating.
    Since you only play 2 west coast teams on the road - it's 6 games in the PTZ or MTZ.

    You see how the rest works out. It's not the alignment, but rather the matrix, that gives You (KevFu) what you want.

    I'd be fine with your alignment. I just don't like the matrix.

    As far as alignment goes, Minnesota would love that - because the Yankees and Red Sox are always big draws. But, after a couple of years, they would hate it, because there is ZERO chance of making the playoffs with that alignment.

    But, if you force me to accept it - I'd change your matrix. Your matrix is stuck because you want the "all series have to be 4 games" to hold. But, if you instead make it "50% are 3-games, and 50% are 4-games", you only add 6 series to the season, which isn't much, and you give yourself much more flexibility. So wit:
    Let's keep the 4 game series outside of division. But, for 'balance' sake, let's say I want (randomly choosing a number) 64 games out of division instead of 48 (okay, 64 is not totally random). That leaves me somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 games in my division. In fact, 98 would leave exactly a 162 game season.
    vs division: 14 games - a 3-game and a 4-game set versus everyone = 98 games
    vs everyone else (note that we can't play everyone, because that's too many games)...
    1 4 game set against all the teams in 2 of the remaining divisions, alternating years.

    On average that means that I play 8 games against everyone in 3 years. Or, on average, I play 1.333 games in every city every year. That's the average.
    It comes to, for Central teams: 8 games PTZ, 2.666 games MTZ, and 21.333 games ETZ every year. All the other games are CTZ. Now, this is 'better' for the Central teams, but only because we have again skewed the matrix so that we are playing 60% against our own division, and we've squashed out the schedule so that there is no 'favored other division'.

    If we applied those principles to my suggested alignment, we might get:
    Vs division: 18 games = 54 games
    Inter Conf: 10 games = 40 games = total = 94
    Now, we play the rest against only our own league, so there are about 60 games, and 12 teams. The 6 year cycle would be 360 games total, spread evenly over 12 teams, so 30 games against everyone, or an average of 5 games/year vs everyone. That means 2.5 road games a year in every park.
    So, when we multiply:
    7.5 games PTZ
    2.5 games MTZ
    20 games ETZ
    And, the reason it's slightly different is that we are only playing a 154 game schedule here.
    Point being..
    It's basically the same.

    And, the difference is not some great alignment. The difference is how your choose your playing matrix.
     
  25. Big Z Man 1990 Registered User

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    I never said CBSSN was going to fold. It just wouldn't have enough carriage at the moment to air more high-profile sporting events.
     

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